-shrugs-

Im gonna go ahead and assume we find out much, much more about why Kylo is the way he is in Episode VIII.

This is the main problem with the entire movie, Carl.  Everything is going to be explained in Episode VIII according to those sticking up for it.  I'm sure that some of it will be, but not everything.  

There was a line in the film where Maz Kannata (sp?) said that the story about where the lightsaber was found was a story for another time.  Colin Baker's Doctor in the Doctor Who episode Timelash said something similar and it's been mocked by Whovians for 30 years.  That's what much of the TFA reminded me of.  A scene from Timelash.  Quite possibly the worst Doctor Who serial ever made.

He saw his nephew turn to the dark side, murder countless inocent ppl and blamed himself because if he hadnt offered ot train him hed never have fallen to the dark side in the first place. And them he went into exile, if he was hiding because he was ashame or if it has anythign to do with Snoke, Rey and even kylo himself is yet to be determined. 

Ye and Ep III was made after Ep IV, like 20+ years after, so when Ep IV was released there was 200000000 things unexplained and ppl always analyse it in retrospect. Even with another 3 movies there was still a lot of things that were never explained, one of the bigest ones is the actual formation/origins of the Rebel Alliance, how did that process happen, where did they get all the military plans and hardware they needed, the money, etc. Hence why Star Wars Rebels is a thing. Stop analysing IV in retrospect to say it was this beautfull all tied up neat ball of awesomeness when in fact it was just part of a series (even tough a lot was done to give us a conclusive story out of fear of a new movie never happening). Ep V wich is probably the best of the series, has unanswered stuff in it, in the end everyone was trying to understand wtf happened for Lukes father to become Darth Vader, part of it wasnt even epxlained on VI and needed an etire new trilogy to be delt with.

The keyword there, ppl are realy making a herculeam effort not to like this, every explanation makes the complainers change the angle of the complaint entirely. The whole it shouldve explained everything compalint is by far the worst and seriously its dumb, I chalenge anyone to read or watch Harry Potter and the Sorcerers Stone and not have liek 75 different questions going trough his head. This movie is 1 part of a series of 3, the first part, it had little time to tell much about a bunch of things because it had characters to introduce, it told enought to hook ppl up, so much so there are multiple theorys going around about who is Rey, Snoke, what happened to turn Kylo bad etc, in other words it did its job perfectly well, ppl want to know how this story unfolds. The movie set the foundations for the story to be further explored. Anyone who has a problem with unanswered questions on part 1 of a trilogy should either not watch the thing or wait till all 3 movies are out so youll have all your answers. Hint, Frodo does not destroy the Ring in 1 movie; plotwist he doesnt even actualy destroys the ring.

On the released script/novelisation transcript it says Snoke told him and most liekly used it to convinve him killing Han would help. The movie makes no mention of Snoke telling him that (it only shows Snoke telling him to kill Han) but as we see in the movie and read in the scrip/novelisation killing Han didnt help at all, it sent him into the deeply disturbed Kylo mode he was on the final scene.

The sad thing is that I am NOT making an effort to not like this movie. I went into it hoping for the best and what I saw was not only a movie that I didn't like, but one that betrayed the Star Wars universe. I don't see how I have changed the angle of the complaint or any of that. I have outlined all of the reasons that I didn't care for this film and all I get in response is "You weren't paying attention" or "If you used your imagination you could see how it might make sense".

Sure. Not everything in a movie needs to be explained, but something should. Also, a good part of story telling is establishing characters and it did none of that. The only character development we got was that Kylo wants to be Vader but fails repeatedly at it. Sorry, but this is not interesting to me.

I went into the theater wanting to see something magical and left feeling hollow and dissappointed. If you enjoyed the movie then fine, good for you, but don't tell me that I'm trying not to like the movie. I just plain didn't like it. Why is that so difficult to understand? To me, it was a bad movie. Maybe not for you. Maybe you also like the Fast and the Furious series. I personally think that it's garbage, but many would agree with you over me.

Yeah, I don't think its fair to say amp is making an effort to not like it.

Some people have different opinions. By all means disagree with what he is saying, but don't try to make it seem like he's doing it out of spite. That aint cool.

So very very true.

Some people try way too hard to get in the way of their own entertainment. 

I wouldn't say it "sucks". But it did come off exactly as I feared it would the moment I heard that they threw Lucas' ACTUAL Episode VII story treatment out the window: as bad fan-fiction. And you can thank Mr. Abrams for that, as he helped re-write the script.

I honestly enjoyed the prequels, and for their many flaws, things they NEVER did that this new film does, include NOT having any just outright blatantly stupid/ridiculous plot elements. Certain things certain whiny fanboys didn't care for? Sure, aplenty. But nothing that just smacks you in the face with "REALLY?" Such as a *SPOILERS* sun-sucking planet-turned-deathstar, that can shoot megabeams ACROSS ENTIRE MULTIPLE SYSTEMS, and then split in five just because and blow several planets up at once. Just because. That literally comes off as something a five year old would write: "Well THIS time, we're going to have an even BIGGER Death Star, and THIS time, it's gonna suck in entire SUNS, even though it's a LIVING PLANET with snow and trees, because that TOTALLY is feasible, and then it's going to shoot lasers across space SO BIG that you'll be able to see the beam in the sky from another planet FAR AWAY, and then the beam is gonna split in FIVE because it's THAT ADVANCED, and blow everything up without so much as a moment of ceremony.....because.....well because."

Or perhaps Finn, the guy who was kidnapped as a kid and raised/conditioned his ENTIRE LIFE to be a Storm Trooper, yet once he breaks away, he displays NO actual symtoms or struggles with said conditioning, which would have made for an ACTUALLY compelling character. Instead, he just acted scared, cracked out of place jokes, and made sure to fit in a couple of "token black guy" moments, like going all Will Smith in the absolutely-no-reason-to-actually-exist Captain Phasma's face. Which, by the way, was also totally out of place.

The movie came off like an episode of a Joss Whedon show, with SO much humor, much of it forced, and SO many constant wink/nod/nudges to remind you that "HEY, this is just like the OLD Star Wars, RIGHT?", that it got old really fast.


There were GOOD things about the movie....but to me, the BAD things about it really drown them out. It was not well written, most of the new characters outside of Rey were pointless, and the movie was just one vague allusion after another, plotwise, while at the same time being a carbon copy of Episode IV.

Say what you will about the prequels. I myself agree they used TOO much CGI, and that the romantic acting moments seemed stiff/forced, as if they didn't get enough takes or something. And there WERE a couple of "HUH?" moments, like never seeing the Jedi even question Anakin about what happened with his mother and the Sand People, and what he did to them. But the one thing you CAN say about the prequels, is that they told original stories, they WERE actually trying to tell their own story, and were not just pandering to fans of the original trilogy, they weren't just stuffed with fan-service to make people cheer.

And honestly, I think that once people take the "Star Wars glasses" off, and look at this film with a sober mindset, most of them will realize that they don't think it's so "GREAT" after all, but rather, they were blinded by the constant fan-service. That is not what a new Star Wars film should be. If they were GOING to bother making a new trilogy, they should have kept Lucas on-board as a consultant, as originally planned, and actually STUCK to his original stories for them, as originally planned.

I will always wonder what he actually intended to happen, instead of whatever fanboy bullshit that Abrams and Co. managed to concoct. And to think Disney tries to tell us that all of the EU shit is no longer "canon", even though Lucas once said at least some of it was, and yet we're expected to buy that THIS is canon, and is somehow "better" (When it clearly isn't). I didn't like the Thrawn Trilogy concept, unlike so many fans, but I would rather have had THAT been adapted, than what they've come up with so far.

I'm just glad Abrams won't be writing/directing the next two.....so hopefully they might drop the fan-service shit, an some of the ridiculous five year old style ideas, and possibly get a bit better. But I honestly have very little enthusiasm for them after seeing this, which is too bad. I had a very bad feeling after Lucas sold to Disney, that the franchise was just going to be whored out and watered down, and so far, sadly, that seems to be playing out.

I thought it was very good.

K fair enought, its just that the internet is full of blind haters nowadays, everything popular has a share of them, and they go to extreme lengths to degrade something and agravate those who liked it, going as far as creating multiple metacritics and IMDB accounts just to rate a movie 1 or 0 like 100 times. This movie has problems, but when someone creates a thread with a title saying "Force Awakens Sucks" (you can agree with me that a title like "I didnt like Force Awakens, heres why" or something along these lines would be much more apropriated dont you ?) than proceeds to give a review that doesnt see even 1 positive it kinda feels like he is doing that out of spite more than anything, I admit I can have misread/misjudged his intentions tough.

In Episode 3, when  Palpatine tells Anakin the "Tale of Darth Plagueis the wise" in the opera they play a unique theme. The theme of Darth Plagueis. The play that same theme when Snoke shows up at Episode VII. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kgirxblkje8

Rey beating a gravely injured Kylo Ren is more believable than Luke defeating Vader head to head. They spend the bulk of he second act showing how powerful Chewies bowcaster is. At one point Han shoots a blast in the vicinity of two Storm Troopers,  it sends them both flying killing them. This was clearly done to explain Kylo's eventual loss to Rey in the film's climax. Snoke had no incentive to give Kylo Ren any advanced training. Unless there is some incredible coincidence, Snoke and Darth Plagueis have identical themes. After teach Palpatine everything and being nearly killed for it. It's unlikely that he would have  taught Kylo much beyond the basics he learned from Luke. He'd have no need. A Dark Jedi apprentice would have more than enough skill to act as an enforce against non force users. To become a Padawan, the final step is to learn how to construct a lightsaber. Kylo's saber, while cool looking, was poorly constructed. It's why his blade looked fiery instead of like a refined beam. So it's clear that didn't reach Padawan status with look before he went off the rails.