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Darc Requiem on 01 January 2016
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amp316 said:
Darc Requiem said:
amp316 said:

Well that makes sense.  That's why Vader got beat down by Leia after he cut off Luke's hand...  Also, he was all messed up and weak after he killed his mentor, Obi-Wan.  He couldn't fly a Tie Fighter or anything.  Good to see how things are staying true to the Star Wars universe.



 

I don't understand how anyone can compare Vader, fully trained Jedi Knight that been a Sith for decades, to Kylo Ren. Kylo Ren was a Jedi Apprentice that fell to the dark side. Vader had grew up in the time where the Jedi were plentiful. He trained with the Jedi when they were several accomplished masters in the Galaxy. He was stronger than Obi Wan but lost to him because of he was conflicted. This lead him to become the obsidian visage the galaxy came to fear. Kylo Ren was an apprentice that killed a bunch a bunch of apprentices. He wields and imperfect light saber with a cracked Kyber crystal. Given the state of his light saber, one should not need to hear from Snoke that he hadn't completed his training. It should be readily apparent. Who are the great warriors he's defeated in single combat? Bully a bunch of non force users doesn't make one a great warrior.

Vader spent the time between Episdoes III and Episdoes IV hunting down Jedi to sharpen which would further sharpen his skill and this was after being properly trained. Who was Kylo Ren honing his skills against? Hux? TR8-8R? Sith don't fully train their apprentices. They give them just enough knowledge to perform the task at hand because they fear being betrayed. If Snoke is who we all think he is, Darth Plagueis, we know why he'd be hestitant to fully train his apprentice unless necessary. You can see the results of fully training his last apprentice, Sidious, all over his face.

Fair enough.  I hear your point, but do you as a Star Wars fan believe that someone that was trained under Luke Skywalker and by Snoke should get beaten down so easily by someone that just learned that she is force sensitive and actually struggle against a sanitation worker?  Injury or not, that's pathetic.

What Jedi were left for Vader to kill between III and IV?  Didn't Order 66 pretty much take care of that?  Also, I don't think that Snoke is Darth Plagueis.  I'm pretty sure that Palpatine would have sensed if he survived.  Then again, the way the writing was in the last movie I wouldn't be surprised.  

In Episode 3, when  Palpatine tells Anakin the "Tale of Darth Plagueis the wise" in the opera they play a unique theme. The theme of Darth Plagueis. The play that same theme when Snoke shows up at Episode VII. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kgirxblkje8

Rey beating a gravely injured Kylo Ren is more believable than Luke defeating Vader head to head. They spend the bulk of he second act showing how powerful Chewies bowcaster is. At one point Han shoots a blast in the vicinity of two Storm Troopers,  it sends them both flying killing them. This was clearly done to explain Kylo's eventual loss to Rey in the film's climax. Snoke had no incentive to give Kylo Ren any advanced training. Unless there is some incredible coincidence, Snoke and Darth Plagueis have identical themes. After teach Palpatine everything and being nearly killed for it. It's unlikely that he would have  taught Kylo much beyond the basics he learned from Luke. He'd have no need. A Dark Jedi apprentice would have more than enough skill to act as an enforce against non force users. To become a Padawan, the final step is to learn how to construct a lightsaber. Kylo's saber, while cool looking, was poorly constructed. It's why his blade looked fiery instead of like a refined beam. So it's clear that didn't reach Padawan status with look before he went off the rails.