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Forums - Movies & TV - The Force Awakens sucks! *MAJOR SPOILERS*

I had fun watching the movie, but you really have to switch off your brain as there are hundreds of things that just feel clumsy and ill thought through in this movie

I doubt I'll watch the next one at the cinema



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DakonBlackblade said:
amp316 said:

Anakin had 0 conflicts going on during his fight with Dooku.  I must have imagined that part where Padme fell out of that low flying craft into the desert and demanded for them to go back because he thought that she might have died.  He also didn't show a lot of anger toward Dooku for all of the of the Jedi that she killed.  Yoda also implied that Leia was their last hope to Obi-Wan when he said that Luke was.  Also, Vader though tthat she was powerful enough to turn her to the Dark Side if Luke wouldn't do so.  Am I misremembering anything?

Yeah, Rey could fight with a staff on Jakku and even if that does equal lightsaber training as you suggest, how can she do a force pull without training?  A mind trick?  Read minds?  Be the best star pilot in the galaxy?  Know more about the Falcon than Han?  What's the point of watching the next film?  She's already the best at everything.  I'll tell you my reason for watching it.  Because I've been a fan of this series for almost 40 years and I hope that the next one is better.  It can't get much worse.

 

Anakin was angry at that duel (he was angry quite often) anger is good for the dark side, he always taped into the dark side even when he dindt realy know, so if anything he was more powerfull. Kylo was a mess, he was not sure how he felt, specialy cause he believed killing Ham would solve all his problems, and its very clear in Adam Drivers eyes when Ham touches his face it didnt. He keeps hititng himself to feel pain and try to harness that, and it is only exactly after hitting his wound that he force pushes Rey into the tree, than he does nothing else that require force mastery.

Theres 1 million things implied about Leia, it was never made clear if she coudlve been a jedi, as soon as Luke comes into the picture everyone goes, ye no that kid has the Force in spades, lets just forget about Leia being the last hope and all that.

It equals trainig in hand to hand combat, and Rey fights kinda badly with that lightsber, she stats and swing in arcs, kinda like you would fight with a staff, she also gets owned by a screwed up Kylo Ren during 80% of the fight, its only on the very end that she ahs the uper hand (and even during that outburst shes still stabing and swinging in arcs, shes just doing it much faster).  She doesnt read minds, she resists Kylos mind read and it backfires on him. Force pull is the basic of the basic. The only problem I see is the mind trick, that is too specific to just try (even tough in recent material it has been made relatively easy to pull, with Ezra and Ashoka learnign it very fast at a very young age). Possible explanations arethat the lightsaber imprinted some knowledge into her (it defiently did that, now to wich extent is up in the air), or that she did have training under Luke when he stabilished the New Order and Luke or someone took her to jakku to hide her there once Kylo screwed everything, or that she learned some stuff from when she was in Kylos mind, one of the multipl force spirits (Obywan, Yodda or Anakin for instance - she does hear all fo theyre voices during the vision sequence) were guiding her, or she simply tried stuff she learned from the jedis legends (this one is a bad explanation but one noetheless). If comes Ep VIII the oficial explanation is the one that she just tried stuff she hear the jedi could do and it worked cause she had awoken to the Force and she is that strong, its gona be meh but it does make sense.

 

Also a lot of the complains that why would I watch the other, she knows everything is not taking into consideration she was doing stuff as spurs of the moments, she wil now be faced with the burden of having to save the galaxy, maybe even having to convince Luke to go out of hiding, self doubts, the pull of the dark side, fear etc this all comes now.

Kylo wasn't sure how he felt?  He betrayed Luke, destroyed his temple, started the Knights of Ren, led the First Order's army, killed lord knows how many members of the Resistance, impaled Han on his lightsaber, and thought that he might still be kind of a nice guy?  

Yeah, let's forget all of the facts that I brought up about Leia that you want to ignore.  Obviously she's force sensitive.

Sorry, but Rey does read Kylo's mind when he tries to read hers...  The rest of your argument comes down to this might have happened of that might have happened.  It will be explained in the next movie.  That's the problem.  The original Star Wars would have been a great standalone movie if there never was a sequel.  This, would have not.  Also, I BET that several of the questions that I am asking will NEVER be answered.  Sorry, but this is crappy story telling.





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amp316 said:
DakonBlackblade said:

Just to put an end to the dumb coments about how Kylo couldnt stop the bowcaster shot and hwy he lost the duel. http://www.ign.com/articles/2015/12/31/star-wars-the-force-awakens-released-script-and-novelization-offer-new-details-on-the-ending-and-more?utm

Thats the official script, says pretty much everythign everyone who actualy payed atention to the movie and saw Adams Driver expressions and body language already knew, he was conflicted after killing his father and therefore was weakened and he was afraid on his duel x Rey.

Well that makes sense.  That's why Vader got beat down by Leia after he cut off Luke's hand...  Also, he was all messed up and weak after he killed his mentor, Obi-Wan.  He couldn't fly a Tie Fighter or anything.  Good to see how things are staying true to the Star Wars universe.



 

I don't understand how anyone can compare Vader, fully trained Jedi Knight that been a Sith for decades, to Kylo Ren. Kylo Ren was a Jedi Apprentice that fell to the dark side. Vader had grew up in the time where the Jedi were plentiful. He trained with the Jedi when they were several accomplished masters in the Galaxy. He was stronger than Obi Wan but lost to him because of he was conflicted. This lead him to become the obsidian visage the galaxy came to fear. Kylo Ren was an apprentice that killed a bunch a bunch of apprentices. He wields and imperfect light saber with a cracked Kyber crystal. Given the state of his light saber, one should not need to hear from Snoke that he hadn't completed his training. It should be readily apparent. Who are the great warriors he's defeated in single combat? Bully a bunch of non force users doesn't make one a great warrior.

Vader spent the time between Episdoes III and Episdoes IV hunting down Jedi to sharpen which would further sharpen his skill and this was after being properly trained. Who was Kylo Ren honing his skills against? Hux? TR8-8R? Sith don't fully train their apprentices. They give them just enough knowledge to perform the task at hand because they fear being betrayed. If Snoke is who we all think he is, Darth Plagueis, we know why he'd be hestitant to fully train his apprentice unless necessary. You can see the results of fully training his last apprentice, Sidious, all over his face.



amp316 said:

Kylo wasn't sure how he felt?  He betrayed Luke, destroyed his temple, started the Knights of Ren, led the First Order's army, killed lord knows how many members of the Resistance, impaled Han on his lightsaber, and thought that he might still be kind of a nice guy?  

Yeah, let's forget all of the facts that I brought up about Leia that you want to ignore.  Obviously she's force sensitive.

Sorry, but Rey does read Kylo's mind when he tries to read hers...  The rest of your argument comes down to this might have happened of that might have happened.  It will be explained in the next movie.  That's the problem.  The original Star Wars would have been a great standalone movie if there never was a sequel.  This, would have not.  Also, I BET that several of the questions that I am asking will NEVER be answered.  Sorry, but this is crappy story telling.

Kylo is not sure how he feels troughout the whole freking movie, were you even watching. Snoke is obviously manipulaitng him, Kylo keeps forcing himself to do a lot of stuf, he even kills Ham because Snoke told itd stop "the pull of the light" (not with this words but thats whats implied) as Kylo calls it himself. Also no one ever said Kylo created the Knights of Ren, its more likely that Snoke did, this is purely speculaion, but I believe Snoke got to Kylo, seduced him and some other young jedis, gave them some basic training and made them kill the other jedis when Luke was away or something, I find it very ahrd ot believe Luke wouldnt have bested Kylo and his gooms if he was around (that scene with Luke touching R2 that Rey sees, seens ot be Luke seing the carnage/destruction resulted from that).

She resists him and is able to get something form him as a result, she doesnt use a mind read herself. The original Star Wars was kinda suposed to be stadalone, or at least to give a conclusive story if no other movie ever came out, Lucas and everyone else tought itd fail terribly, FA isnt suposed to be standalone at all, if you explain everything than the trilogy would feel all disconected and nothing like 1 continuous story at all, in every great film and book series there are always stuf left unexplained on the earlier chapters of the tale. Even with this fact Star Wars had unexplained stuff, we know very little about the empire and the emperor, we dont even know who the fck Darth Vader realy is. Ppl anal;yse a lot in retrospect to say Star Wars had nothign unexplained on it.





Darc Requiem said:
amp316 said:

Well that makes sense.  That's why Vader got beat down by Leia after he cut off Luke's hand...  Also, he was all messed up and weak after he killed his mentor, Obi-Wan.  He couldn't fly a Tie Fighter or anything.  Good to see how things are staying true to the Star Wars universe.



 

I don't understand how anyone can compare Vader, fully trained Jedi Knight that been a Sith for decades, to Kylo Ren. Kylo Ren was a Jedi Apprentice that fell to the dark side. Vader had grew up in the time where the Jedi were plentiful. He trained with the Jedi when they were several accomplished masters in the Galaxy. He was stronger than Obi Wan but lost to him because of he was conflicted. This lead him to become the obsidian visage the galaxy came to fear. Kylo Ren was an apprentice that killed a bunch a bunch of apprentices. He wields and imperfect light saber with a cracked Kyber crystal. Given the state of his light saber, one should not need to hear from Snoke that he hadn't completed his training. It should be readily apparent. Who are the great warriors he's defeated in single combat? Bully a bunch of non force users doesn't make one a great warrior.

Vader spent the time between Episdoes III and Episdoes IV hunting down Jedi to sharpen which would further sharpen his skill and this was after being properly trained. Who was Kylo Ren honing his skills against? Hux? TR8-8R? Sith don't fully train their apprentices. They give them just enough knowledge to perform the task at hand because they fear being betrayed. If Snoke is who we all think he is, Darth Plagueis, we know why he'd be hestitant to fully train his apprentice unless necessary. You can see the results of fully training his last apprentice, Sidious, all over his face.

Fair enough.  I hear your point, but do you as a Star Wars fan believe that someone that was trained under Luke Skywalker and by Snoke should get beaten down so easily by someone that just learned that she is force sensitive and actually struggle against a sanitation worker?  Injury or not, that's pathetic.

What Jedi were left for Vader to kill between III and IV?  Didn't Order 66 pretty much take care of that?  Also, I don't think that Snoke is Darth Plagueis.  I'm pretty sure that Palpatine would have sensed if he survived.  Then again, the way the writing was in the last movie I wouldn't be surprised.  





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DakonBlackblade said:

Kylo is not sure how he feels troughout the whole freking movie, were you even watching. Snoke is obviously manipulaitng him, Kylo keeps forcing himself to do a lot of stuf, he even kills Ham because Snoke told itd stop "the pull of the light" (not with this words but thats whats implied) as Kylo calls it himself. Also no one ever said Kylo created the Knights of Ren, its more likely that Snoke did, this is purely speculaion, but I believe Snoke got to Kylo, seduced him and some other young jedis, gave them some basic training and made them kill the other jedis when Luke was away or something, I find it very ahrd ot believe Luke wouldnt have bested Kylo and his gooms if he was around (that scene with Luke touching R2 that Rey sees, seens ot be Luke seing the carnage/destruction resulted from that).

She resists him and is able to get something form him as a result, she doesnt use a mind read herself. The original Star Wars was kinda suposed to be stadalone, or at least to give a conclusive story if no other movie ever came out, Lucas and everyone else tought itd fail terribly, FA isnt suposed to be standalone at all, if you explain everything than the trilogy would feel all disconected and nothing like 1 continuous story at all, in every great film and book series there are always stuf left unexplained on the earlier chapters of the tale. Even with this fact Star Wars had unexplained stuff, we know very little about the empire and the emperor, we dont even know who the fck Darth Vader realy is. Ppl anal;yse a lot in retrospect to say Star Wars had nothign unexplained on it.



No, I did not watch the move.  I have no idea who this Ham guy is that you keep talking about.  Okay, so let's say that the Knights of Ren were created by Snoke.  Kylo Ren was implied to have led the Knights into Luke's temple and destroy it.  It scares Luke enough to the point where he goes into hiding.  This is another problem.  Why doesn't Luke just kick the crap out of his student if he is such a novice as so many are claiming?  Oh, Luke must've been off you say.  Now you're just making stuff up to fit your argument as you have throughout this thread.  Wouldn't Luke have returned and whooped him.   This might have happened.  That might have happened.  You're basically telling me that you understand everything better than I do about this movie because your imagination works.

You're right in a way.  TFA isn't supposed to be a standalone movie.  It's part 7 in a series.  There has been a gap between of about 30 years between VI an VII.  What does it tell us happened in those 30 years?  Wait.  Let's see... Pretty much nothing. 





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DakonBlackblade said:
Lawlight said:

I'm sorry but that must be one small galaxy then if they are able to erase all records of the Jedis. At their peak, which is less than 2 generations ago, the Jedis had a council that the republic worked with. Also, Jedis were around for about 30,000 years and all it took was a few decades to erase everything?

Sounds like a plot hole resulting from them wanting to add mystery to the whole force/jedi thing.

It steams from the fact ppl didnt believe the Jedi to be real in the first place, not in the space wizards sense, they were numerous but not that numerous, its like there was less than 1k jedis during theyre peak. They were never seen much and acted as generals on the Clone Wars. There were stories but many treated it like legends. On the novels as soon as palpatine eradicates the jedi order and forbids any mention of the jedis questioning about what the jedis could realy do start spreading around the commonfolk like wildfire, and if they were in fact traitors. Only the high ups in the republic realy knew what the jedis could do, most ppl only saw them as military generals.

On the EU (wich isnt canon anymore but anyway there are stories) on the Old Republic days, when the first jedi purge hapened it also took no time for ppl turn Jedis into legends. This concept/notion that the galaxy at large always kinda tought they were myths permeates every novel/movie and whatnot.

Not saying it makes much sense, Im saying the movie was consistent with the lore on that aspect and I can acept it as a plausibel explanation at least.



That's some revisionist stuff right there. People didn't believe the Jedi existed? It's quite clear from the prequels that people have accepted the fact that Jedis exist. The Jedi even led military missions after all so they existed. The feats accomplished by the Jedis like levitation or force-choke existed as well and was demonstrable. This isn't the Greek gods era where you cannot prove stuff. It's an era where technology is advanced.

As I said, it's just a plot hole.





The script is out, apparently. Lots of stuff revealed.

Kylo is weakened after he kills Han, to the point where Chewie's roar breaks his "concentration" and shock, waking him up so to say. He is "horrified" by what he just did.

Also, Rey feels the pull to the dark side. In a part of the film which I assume was cut, Snoke is in her head telling her to kill Kylo when theyre fighting.



                            

Lawlight said:
DakonBlackblade said:

It steams from the fact ppl didnt believe the Jedi to be real in the first place, not in the space wizards sense, they were numerous but not that numerous, its like there was less than 1k jedis during theyre peak. They were never seen much and acted as generals on the Clone Wars. There were stories but many treated it like legends. On the novels as soon as palpatine eradicates the jedi order and forbids any mention of the jedis questioning about what the jedis could realy do start spreading around the commonfolk like wildfire, and if they were in fact traitors. Only the high ups in the republic realy knew what the jedis could do, most ppl only saw them as military generals.

On the EU (wich isnt canon anymore but anyway there are stories) on the Old Republic days, when the first jedi purge hapened it also took no time for ppl turn Jedis into legends. This concept/notion that the galaxy at large always kinda tought they were myths permeates every novel/movie and whatnot.

Not saying it makes much sense, Im saying the movie was consistent with the lore on that aspect and I can acept it as a plausibel explanation at least.



That's some revisionist stuff right there. People didn't believe the Jedi existed? It's quite clear from the prequels that people have accepted the fact that Jedis exist. The Jedi even led military missions after all so they existed. The feats accomplished by the Jedis like levitation or force-choke existed as well and was demonstrable. This isn't the Greek gods era where you cannot prove stuff. It's an era where technology is advanced.

As I said, it's just a plot hole.



Everyone knew they existed, almost no one believed what they could do, they dindt do that stuf in public at all. Han Solo and the entire Rebel Army on Ep IV wich is liek 30 years after the prequels tought the jedis realy coudlnt do all that stuff legends told they could, and thats closer to EPs 1-3 than Ep VII is, and thats also from the original trilogy. So ye everyone always threated jedis kinda like myths, they new the republic had this order that called themselves that and that they were military leaders, the Force and "space wizardry" part is far from being common knowledge. In fact most of the galaxy dont even believe the Force is a thing, that has always been the case.





Carl2291 said:
The script is out, apparently. Lots of stuff revealed.

Kylo is weakened after he kills Han, to the point where Chewie's roar breaks his "concentration" and shock, waking him up so to say. He is "horrified" by what he just did.

Also, Rey feels the pull to the dark side. In a part of the film which I assume was cut, Snoke is in her head telling her to kill Kylo when theyre fighting.

Chewie's roar should have woken him up to stop the laser...

I'm glad that they took this out of the movie.  It would have made Kylo look like an even bigger sissy seeing that Snoke was trying to groom her to be an apprentice ALREADY....





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