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Forums - Nintendo Discussion - Is Smash Wii U the "Final Fantasy VII" of the Smash series?

bigtakilla on 19 December 2015
AlfredoTurkey said:
StarOcean said:

Melee will always have that "legacy". To be honest I really don't like Smash U, it feels very... meh, barely above the N64 version. The lack of any Adventure Mode or SSE really made me disinterested in it after a few hours

EDIT: I forgot how pissed I was that literally 50% or more of the stages are just reused from Brawl...

 

The reason you see some people get mad when someone argues that a game or franchise use to be better in the past boils down to psychology. See, if one accepts that an IP's best days are behind it, then this means the game they just bought... and any furture games they buy, are less. They're devalued now and always will be. No one wants to feel like their beloved ANYTHING is finished, or past it's prime. No one wants to accept a reality that the thing they love the most, or love period, isn't as good as it use to be. So, there's this sort of resistance... a delusional thought process that takes over. 

In a perfect world, people would see everything logically and from an unbiased perspective but I don't think most of the population is wired that way. There's just too many men walking around with beards, black rimmed glasses, skinny jeans and hipster cuts to suggest otherwise.

 

Are you arguing that hipsters hate retro things? LMFAO!



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Wyrdness on 19 December 2015
DivinePaladin said:

It doesn't help that the meta keeps changing ever so slightly because of patches so the Melee players don't wanna jump over and have to continue upping their game. Understandable, and that's why Melee players often went to Brawl and stayed with both for a good while, and why some even went back to 64. Plus, we had somebody who was almost unbeatable in Zero for a good while, which had to factor into Melee players not wanting to jump in right away. Now that Nairo is on the scene too and the patch support is close to done I'm sure more will jump over begrudgingly at first since that's where the money is going. 

 

 

Zero tbh was successful because he was for a while the only player who fully invested into the game and was in the lab testing all the tech, he's essentially to S4 what Ken was to Melee as he grasped everything before everyone else and maintained his game with every patch. You're right about the Melee players not wanting to adjust to a metagame and up their game as S4 has patched and adjusted mechanics to the point it playes differently to launch, shielding was even reduced for more aggression for example, S4's metagame is also more diverse so the's a a lot more you have to do in situations and watch out for.



Wyrdness on 19 December 2015

Edit: Double post.



Wyrdness on 19 December 2015
midrange said:

Smash 4 is only big because Nintendo is trying to push it in tournaments. There is no gaurantee that the game will be big in the competitive scene once Nintendo decides to stop supporting smash 4.

Right now, melee has proven to be a timeless classic, smash 4 has not. To anticipate smash 4 to remain big in the future is wishful thinking. It may be possible, but I wouldn't be too sure

 

Not only is Nintendo pushing Smash 4 I'll add that the are two things that will help S4's community grow that Melee sturggles to crack, Europe and Japan, S4's balancing means everyone is playing the same version unlike Melee where the PAL version has balance changes not in the NA version and the latter is what's played at most Melee tournaments and the online also removes the problem in Europe of finding a community to play people, hence Europe has a healthy S4 scene that is growing.

Japan also prefer S4 so they have a bigger S4 scene by a significant margin over Melee and to try and dismiss S4 when it's only a year in is beyond jumping the gun. The are advantages S4 has that the previous games didn't have.



bigtakilla on 19 December 2015
Wyrdness said:
midrange said:

Smash 4 is only big because Nintendo is trying to push it in tournaments. There is no gaurantee that the game will be big in the competitive scene once Nintendo decides to stop supporting smash 4.

Right now, melee has proven to be a timeless classic, smash 4 has not. To anticipate smash 4 to remain big in the future is wishful thinking. It may be possible, but I wouldn't be too sure

 

Not only is Nintendo pushing Smash 4 I'll add that the are two things that will help S4's community grow that Melee sturggles to crack, Europe and Japan, S4's balancing means everyone is playing the same version unlike Melee where the PAL version has balance changes not in the NA version and the latter is what's played at most Melee tournaments and the online also removes the problem in Europe of finding a community to play people, hence Europe has a healthy S4 scene that is growing.

Japan also prefer S4 so they have a bigger S4 scene by a significant margin over Melee and to try and dismiss S4 when it's only a year in is beyond jumping the gun. The are advantages S4 has that the previous games didn't have.

Online tournaments and stage building are also things that will help Sm4sh remain popular, so all these comments about reused stages are kind of null and void.





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hershel_layton on 19 December 2015
midrange said:
hershel_layton said:

Whoever still thinks Melee is better than SSB4 is really just using nostalgia.

Smash Bros 4 has better looks(Melee looks outdated), a way better roster, amazing music, way more stages, 8 PLAYER Mode, more controllers to use, Amiibo support(cool thing to use), 3DS-controller capability(win for me), and an online mode(which melee doesn't have)

 

I love all the Smash games, but I just think that Sakurai did extremely well with Melee. He basically improved upon brawl and melee, and made a game that can be played for ages.

@bolded: Apparently people can't have opinions without it being "nostalgia."

clearly SSB4 has the EXACT same physics as melee. I love being able to edge hog and wave dash in SSB4. I love being able to play on  pokemon stadium and great bay on SSB4.

you can like smash 4 better, but don't expect people to like it as much as you do.

Never said having nostalgia is bad. It's what makes many of us favor one thing over the other.





 

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AlfredoTurkey on 19 December 2015
bigtakilla said:
AlfredoTurkey said:

 

The reason you see some people get mad when someone argues that a game or franchise use to be better in the past boils down to psychology. See, if one accepts that an IP's best days are behind it, then this means the game they just bought... and any furture games they buy, are less. They're devalued now and always will be. No one wants to feel like their beloved ANYTHING is finished, or past it's prime. No one wants to accept a reality that the thing they love the most, or love period, isn't as good as it use to be. So, there's this sort of resistance... a delusional thought process that takes over. 

In a perfect world, people would see everything logically and from an unbiased perspective but I don't think most of the population is wired that way. There's just too many men walking around with beards, black rimmed glasses, skinny jeans and hipster cuts to suggest otherwise.

 

Are you arguing that hipsters hate retro things? LMFAO!

 

No, I used hipsters as an example of psychosis and the power of psychology on the human condition.



midrange on 19 December 2015
DivinePaladin said:
midrange said:
hershel_layton said:

Whoever still thinks Melee is better than SSB4 is really just using nostalgia.

Smash Bros 4 has better looks(Melee looks outdated), a way better roster, amazing music, way more stages, 8 PLAYER Mode, more controllers to use, Amiibo support(cool thing to use), 3DS-controller capability(win for me), and an online mode(which melee doesn't have)

 

I love all the Smash games, but I just think that Sakurai did extremely well with Melee. He basically improved upon brawl and melee, and made a game that can be played for ages.

@bolded: Apparently people can't have opinions without it being "nostalgia."

clearly SSB4 has the EXACT same physics as melee. I love being able to edge hog and wave dash in SSB4. I love being able to play on  pokemon stadium and great bay on SSB4.

you can like smash 4 better, but don't expect people to like it as much as you do.

I don't know of too many people who picked up Melee in the modern day and prefer it to 4, so nostalgia is clearly a factor. It's a tough sell to say nostalgia doesn't factor in when the players arguing that almost exclusively started it in the GC era. If this was a game people were still taking up and starting today, like an Ocarina or the like, then yeah I could see your point, but the only people shouting about how Melee is superior are the guys who picked it up first. 

Melee is still a great game, no doubt about it, but you're setting up a pretty bad strawman by going right to sarcastically discussing physics and it doesn't make your point stronger compared to what layton was saying. Everybody is always going to have preferences, but as you yourself said, don't expect everybody to like Melee as much as you do, especially not with another game taking the spotlight away. 

No ... just no. Nostalgia is not always a factor. You claim that a game having different physics is not enough to like it over a different one? What kind of logic is that? I (like many others) like fast paced fighting games. The fact that melee has a faster play style over the newer one is enough to like it over the newer one.

If this was a game people were still taking up and starting today, then yeah I could see your point

Let's assume I agree with this claim (I don't btw, popularity has nothing to do with people's opinions), how do you know people aren't picking up melee today? How do you know people aren't getting into the game now because they took an interest in the competitive scene? For all we know, melee could be started by just as many people as those starting ocarina of time.

Don't assume you know how everyone thinks or how their opinions work. I'm not saying everyone will like melee better (that's fine personal preference and all), but you guys are saying that everyone who likes melee likes it because of nostalgia (utterly false, there are many distinguishing factors such as stage preference, speed, and mechanics that come into play)



midrange on 19 December 2015
hershel_layton said:
midrange said:
hershel_layton said:

Whoever still thinks Melee is better than SSB4 is really just using nostalgia.

Smash Bros 4 has better looks(Melee looks outdated), a way better roster, amazing music, way more stages, 8 PLAYER Mode, more controllers to use, Amiibo support(cool thing to use), 3DS-controller capability(win for me), and an online mode(which melee doesn't have)

 

I love all the Smash games, but I just think that Sakurai did extremely well with Melee. He basically improved upon brawl and melee, and made a game that can be played for ages.

@bolded: Apparently people can't have opinions without it being "nostalgia."

clearly SSB4 has the EXACT same physics as melee. I love being able to edge hog and wave dash in SSB4. I love being able to play on  pokemon stadium and great bay on SSB4.

you can like smash 4 better, but don't expect people to like it as much as you do.

Never said having nostalgia is bad. It's what makes many of us favor one thing over the other.

 

I never said you thought nostalgia was bad. I said you're original claim was false and gave reasons why. There are many reasons why people would like melee more aside from nostalgia. Maybe they like that it's faster paced. Maybe they like the stages. Maybe they like the combo potential. There are many reasons why people would like melee more than the new one. Don't  think it's all because of nostalgia.





midrange on 19 December 2015
Wyrdness said:
midrange said:

Smash 4 is only big because Nintendo is trying to push it in tournaments. There is no gaurantee that the game will be big in the competitive scene once Nintendo decides to stop supporting smash 4.

Right now, melee has proven to be a timeless classic, smash 4 has not. To anticipate smash 4 to remain big in the future is wishful thinking. It may be possible, but I wouldn't be too sure

 

Not only is Nintendo pushing Smash 4 I'll add that the are two things that will help S4's community grow that Melee sturggles to crack, Europe and Japan, S4's balancing means everyone is playing the same version unlike Melee where the PAL version has balance changes not in the NA version and the latter is what's played at most Melee tournaments and the online also removes the problem in Europe of finding a community to play people, hence Europe has a healthy S4 scene that is growing.

Japan also prefer S4 so they have a bigger S4 scene by a significant margin over Melee and to try and dismiss S4 when it's only a year in is beyond jumping the gun. The are advantages S4 has that the previous games didn't have.

You didn't really address my point though that melee has succesfully stayed relevant in the competitive scene (and will most likely continue to do so), whereas we are unsure of whether S4 will do the same.

Honestly, there is no way to prove which one remains on top in the future so we may as well agree to disagree and just wait and see. Without claiming that one of them will undoubtably replace the other