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Forums - Politics Discussion - Woman and children first off a sinking ship. Gender equality...?

 

Should the case be...

Let the 100 women get the... 90 24.13%
 
Let the 100 men get the l... 31 8.31%
 
Split the lifeboats 50/50 between the adults. 168 45.04%
 
Let everyone drown because I can't decide. 84 22.52%
 
Total:373
Aielyn on 23 November 2015

There is actually a good reason for prioritising women over men, and it's less about gender roles and more about biology.

Men are naturally stronger swimmers, etc, and tend to be physically larger. As such, putting the women on the boats would, conceptually, maximise the chances of the most people surviving - the women take up less space on the boat, and the men are more likely to survive "going down with the ship" than the women would be.

That being said, the absolute "women and children first" attitude isn't how it should be taken nowadays. It should be focused primarily on saving the largest number of lives. If it's a choice between an obese woman who is over 6 foot tall and a guy who is 5 foot tall with a slender build, the slender man should take priority, unless there is good reason to prioritise the woman.

Of course, I'm describing it in a very simplistic manner - it should be more nuanced than that, of course. And before anyone suggests it, no, I'm not suggesting that obese children be left off the boats. Children are a different case entirely - they don't have the choice to not board the boat, they have much more of their life left to live, and thus children should always be prioritised over adults.

EDIT: To put it even more simply - gender itself shouldn't factor into the question - not "50 men and 50 women" - that's not gender equality, that's factoring gender into the choice of who survives. Gender equality would be considering gender to not matter in deciding who gets onto the boat.



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S.T.A.G.E. on 23 November 2015
Rêveur said:
S.T.A.G.E. said:
Brii said:
I'm not sure why everyone immediate response is "Those damn feminists want more privileges!" when it's not the women that decided this rule all those years ago. It's not because women were 'more privileged' by any means. It's because, back in the days this rule was conceived, people (men and women alike) believed that women were more helpless and needed more protection than men.


Im a feminist and this is not true. Women are considered the fairer gender because based on temperament and biology they actually are (in general). The reason women are generally sent away first because they secure the future of their people and while the men are expendable, they are not. In war or in a shipwreck, this is generally the philosophy that keeps a people alive for another generation. In civilized society women and men can bear the brunt of things the same, but in a situation when they are forced into survival mode.....it kind of goes back to square one where survival matters more. 

What is this load of feminist bullcrap? So you think that women are the fairer sex and so because you think it, it must be so? Ever think that maybe that's just your opinion and not a fact?

Then what is this crap you say about women "securing the future" of people. Wow. Yeah, it really shows that you're a feminist. Exactly the typical modern-day feminist that people tend to want to distance themselves from nowadays.


Hold on a second....before you go off please answer this

1.Feminism is about social and economical equality for women to men. 

2. What do you gather the fairer sex means?

3. What do biologically women do that men cannot which secures the future of society? 

4. Do you know what biology is?



Ganoncrotch on 23 November 2015
Aielyn said:
There is actually a good reason for prioritising women over men, and it's less about gender roles and more about biology.

Men are naturally stronger swimmers, etc, and tend to be physically larger. As such, putting the women on the boats would, conceptually, maximise the chances of the most people surviving - the women take up less space on the boat, and the men are more likely to survive "going down with the ship" than the women would be.

That being said, the absolute "women and children first" attitude isn't how it should be taken nowadays. It should be focused primarily on saving the largest number of lives. If it's a choice between an obese woman who is over 6 foot tall and a guy who is 5 foot tall with a slender build, the slender man should take priority, unless there is good reason to prioritise the woman.

Of course, I'm describing it in a very simplistic manner - it should be more nuanced than that, of course. And before anyone suggests it, no, I'm not suggesting that obese children be left off the boats. Children are a different case entirely - they don't have the choice to not board the boat, they have much more of their life left to live, and thus children should always be prioritised over adults.

I think on this ship where we have life boats exactly made to fit 1 adult and 1 child then the Obese people on board would all be going on at the cost of the child which would otherwise acommpany them, I think this would be one situation where a persons Obesity would be costing the lives of someone else... I think I'd have to just ask as nicely as possible those who are overweight to consider allowing the greater number of healthy sized people on the liferafts.



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Ganoncrotch on 23 November 2015
AbbathTheGrim said:
ganoncrotch said:
AbbathTheGrim said:
First: beat the shit out of the captain, then women and children off the ship.


What if the Captain of the Ship is a woman? would you allow her off the ship before the male crew she doomed?

Only if she's hot and single.

Deary me.



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S.T.A.G.E. on 23 November 2015
ganoncrotch said:
AbbathTheGrim said:
First: beat the shit out of the captain, then women and children off the ship.


What if the Captain of the Ship is a woman? would you allow her off the ship before the male crew she doomed?


Man or woman the captain should fulfill all duties of a captain.  She took the job so she should honor it.



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Puppyroach on 23 November 2015

I think a lot of feminists would say that children should be saved first, and after that it doesn´t really matter what gender a person has, male of female. For me it´s only logical that children and female are the first to be saved since they are, from a biological point of view, most important for a species (although I am pretty sure the human race will survive one boat accident :)).



AbbathTheGrim on 23 November 2015
Puppyroach said:
I think a lot of feminists would say that children should be saved first, and after that it doesn´t really matter what gender a person has, male of female. For me it´s only logical that children and female are the first to be saved since they are, from a biological point of view, most important for a species (although I am pretty sure the human race will survive one boat accident :)).

Children sailing a boat is the recipe for disaster. It only worked in Blue Lagoon.



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DakonBlackblade on 23 November 2015
Darwinianevolution said:
ganoncrotch said:
Darwinianevolution said:
The "women and children first" rule is not because women have privilege over men. That rule is there to guarantee all kids are safe and with at least one of their parents. If a kid only has a father, that man can go with his child.

At least, that is how I interpret this :P


What if a father is on a cruise with 2 of his kids? Can he nominate a male friend to mind his other child or must they be cared for by a woman?

I don't know. This rule is very old, probably from before the XIX century, when civilian travels started to become common. The mother had a bigger rol in the education of the children than it does nowadays (when both the mother and the father educate the children equally, because both are expected to work outside the house), so it made sense to choose the mother over the father.


I dont know if the "rule" is based on education, social reasons or whatever but I believe it is a perpetuation of species kind of thing, women cna have children so if you save 100 women and 1 man survives theres a potential for 100 babys there, while if you save 100 men and 1 woman survive theres only 1 baby possible there.

 

On modern days if youre on that boat and you sugest women and children first some feminist in the boat is likely to start yelling at you about how youre discriminating and refusing to get on the lifeboat out of principle, true story Ive been yelled at by a "lady" for ofering a seat on a crowded buss, the girl had like 50 things on her hand and was standing I was seating, I went like hey you can sit here Ill stand, o man it was like I had punched her in the face she got super ofended and refused vehemently to sit, OK so stand and hold your 50 things and be super unconfortable I was just trying to be nice.



Ganoncrotch on 23 November 2015
S.T.A.G.E. said:
ganoncrotch said:


What if the Captain of the Ship is a woman? would you allow her off the ship before the male crew she doomed?


Man or woman the captain should fulfill all duties of a captain.  She took the job so she should honor it.


Originally when this "women and children first" was uttered on ships the crew was almost exclusively men, so now that isn't the case in the slightest do you think all of the ships crew who are female should also man (microagression) their posts until they've helped fill all of the liferafts regardless of filling them  with Male passengers, just wondering your stance, I've said it much earlier I would put Gender very low on my list of reasons to allow someone space on a life raft.



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Ganoncrotch on 23 November 2015
DakonBlackblade said:
Darwinianevolution said:
ganoncrotch said:
Darwinianevolution said:
The "women and children first" rule is not because women have privilege over men. That rule is there to guarantee all kids are safe and with at least one of their parents. If a kid only has a father, that man can go with his child.

At least, that is how I interpret this :P


What if a father is on a cruise with 2 of his kids? Can he nominate a male friend to mind his other child or must they be cared for by a woman?

I don't know. This rule is very old, probably from before the XIX century, when civilian travels started to become common. The mother had a bigger rol in the education of the children than it does nowadays (when both the mother and the father educate the children equally, because both are expected to work outside the house), so it made sense to choose the mother over the father.


I dont know if the "rule" is based on education, social reasons or whatever but I believe it is a perpetuation of species kind of thing, women cna have children so if you save 100 women and 1 man survives theres a potential for 100 babys there, while if you save 100 men and 1 woman survive theres only 1 baby possible there.

 

On modern days if youre on that boat and you sugest women and children first some feminist in the boat is likely to start yelling at you about how youre discriminating and refusing to get on the lifeboat out of principle, true story Ive been yelled at by a "lady" for ofering a seat on a crowded buss, the girl had like 50 things on her hand and was standing I was seating, i went like hey you can sit here Ill stand, o man it was like I had punched he rin the face she got super ofended.

If she got really agressive at you, you should have slugged her in the face like you would if a guy got in your face the same way! Equility is great.



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