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zorg1000 said:
Magnus said:


Power was the main reason nobody bought a Wii U on launch so none of these franchises came. Most gamers were expected a console that was at least several times more powerful than the 360/PS3. Instead it was a console on the same power level with issues on several launch titles. The launch titles didn't give a compelling reason for 360/PS3 owners to buy a Wii U so the console bombed. It didn't help that the only third-party exclusive that was to be released on mid 2013 and that every one was interested in was delayed several months and ported to the 360/PS3.

Many of those games released in the launch window (first few months) so by the time 3rd parties found out Wii U wasn't selling well, these games would have already been nearing completion. That means sales had no bearing on whether or not many of those games came to Wii U, because they were never planned for Wii U to begin with. That's why the people saying all Nintendo needs to do is make a console that's more powerful than PS4 and everything will be fine are extremely niave.

Nintendo needs to rebuild links with third parties, but they can't do that without a competitive system. Right now they need a console that is over 5x more powerful than a PS4, with a price not higher than $400. I doubt they can do that next year.



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Pemalite said:


For all intents and purposes... Intel's latest CPU's is still based on a variation of the P6 architecture that debuted with the Pentium Pro decades ago.
Still night and day performance difference though.

Morphological AA also did gain *allot* of traction, in the console space.
Pretty much every Unreal Powered game used it to some degree... For good reason. It's cheap. Console's aren't PC's, they cannot afford to use the best of everything.
VLIW however is far better adept at handling such a task than the Geforce 7000 derviced GPU in the PS3 and the Radeon x19xx derived GPU in the Xbox 360... Which enabled an early concept of GPU compute.

And yes, Tessellation performance in Evergreen is pathetic, it's still vastly superior to the Xbox 360's Truform based Tessellation engine and the PS3's lack of one. That's a geometry advantage in the Wii U's favor.

The point is, the WiiU is more advanced than the XBox 360 and Playstation 3. It's not "Current gen" by any stretch, but still a decent jump.

Intel easily does way more to improve it's x86 architecture than IBM ever does for Nintendo's PowerPC 750 derivative and the modern core architecture is NOTHING like the P6 ... 

The Gecko and Broadway are literally identical, core for core aside from clocks and cache. If Marcan's words are to be believed, Espresso is just a higher clocked version of Broadway. That's a 10 year old CPU architecture without ANY sort of extensions ... 

The only post-process AA that I remember gaining a lot of traction was FXAA, the rest was meh for the devs from what I saw ... 

Xenos is also VLIW since it shared some features from the ATI R600 architecture and it's not like the PS3 couldn't do it's own type of "GPU compute" like using the cell processor to perform graphical tasks too ... 

The tessellation unit is meaningless in the WII U's case since it hardly has the shading power or rasterization performance to scale with it. The only good thing I can see the WII U getting out of it is lowering memory and bandwidth consumption since you can use a smaller vertex buffer to pass through the graphics pipeline in order to do some data expansion ro recreate the fragments but that has some drawbacks since Evergreen is known for serially consuming the new generated primitives which means poor parallelization. That would translate to lower utilization and potentially lower performance in the end ... 

The WII U is definitely more advanced from a functionality standpoint however the more important question is if it's an improvement from a performance standpoint ? That can not be answered so easily ...



Xenostar said:
Scisca said:


Look. Nintendo when designing the NX has to take into account PS4 costing $299. This is a given, they'd have to be complete idiots if they were still considering $399 competitors. This means no $400 console, you really are out of touch suggesting something like that. $299 is by far the most NX can cost. They have only 3 options really, $249, $279, $299. What they have to do is hit one of these marks with their price with a console slightly more powerful than the PS4. I think it is possible considering they have 3 years of extra tech development on their side. I mean, with a $299 PS4 (and a $249 Xbone?) just how cheap would an underpowerd NX have to be to get people interested? $149? Do you honestly think such a console would be interesting for anyone? Don't forget that Wii went against ridiculously expensive competition, something different than what NX will have to face in a year. Competition is priced very well, it's totally affordable, so competing on price really isn't the best option.

Nintendo makes cartoony games - cool, but the audience for Nintendo games only is very, very small as N64, GCN and Wii U show you. They can't afford yet another arrogant approach to 3rd parties. They need to win them back, or they are setting themselves up for another disaster. Finally making a console powerful enough and with x86 architecture would be enough for 3rd parties to give them games. Giving them tools to make the best console experience would draw their attention and also draw all gamers who "want the best".

I guess we just have different approach and expectations. We'll see what Nintendo goes for, I hope they make a console more powerful than PS4 (1080p/60fps multiplats is what I want). In any other case - I'm gonna ignore the console just like I did with the Wii U and will go for PS4.

At this point i just dont think Nintendo can win 3rd parties back, to win them back goes far beyond the console tech. Sony and MS now have massive amounts of developer support and tools, integrated systems to support games, Marketing budgets the list goes on and on. 

If they put out an identikit AMD build that the other 2 have even slightly more powerful, then yeah they will probably get ports of all the yearly franchises, but do you see people throwing aside there xbox or PS and friends on those platforms to play this years COD on Nintendo, great for Nintendo fans obviously, but its not going to help them gain marketshare.

Nintendo are fusing there consoles so they can concentrate all there user base into one place and so they can concentrate on making games that work on all there devices, instead of having to choose to make a mario game this year for this platform or that platform.


If this doesn't help, nothing will. But let's not forget, that the reason 3rd parties rule on PS/Xbone isn't arbitrary. It's a consequence of years of MS and Sony support. Nintendo neglected that, so  now they have to pay the price and deal with the burden they put on themselves. It's not easy nor cheap, but it's a consequence of negligence on their part, so they can only blame themselves and finally do what their partners expect them to do.

I think a September/October 2016 release is still early enough in the gen to win a respectable number of people back. Not every PS360 gamer has already made the jump, a big number is still up for grabs and the next gen is still quite far away. Maybe they could allow for online play with PC gamers or even PS4 gamers? This is all up to deals they make, cross-platform multiplayer is open for debate and negotiations, PC shouldn't be any problem. That would help somewhat.

Still, I think that having the best 3rd party games and unified Nintendo 1st party offerings would make a massive splash in my opinion. I'd go for that in a blink of an eye.



Wii U is a GCN 2 - I called it months before the release!

My Vita to-buy list: The Walking Dead, Persona 4 Golden, Need for Speed: Most Wanted, TearAway, Ys: Memories of Celceta, Muramasa: The Demon Blade, History: Legends of War, FIFA 13, Final Fantasy HD X, X-2, Worms Revolution Extreme, The Amazing Spiderman, Batman: Arkham Origins Blackgate - too many no-gaemz :/

My consoles: PS2 Slim, PS3 Slim 320 GB, PSV 32 GB, Wii, DSi.

zorg1000 said:
potato_hamster said:


Ohh, so you mean what Nintendo did with the Wii? They sold over 100 million consoles to people who could not care less about Nintendo, but it was cheap, and popular in seniors homes!  Go Nintendo! Ohh wait, that was the exception, not the rule. Less than 10% of Wii owners bought a Wii U. Ouch.

Here are the facts: With the exception of the Wii, every single Nintendo home console has sold worse than its predecessor. Nintendo's sales continue to drop. Nintendo is forecasting the lowest year of sales, hardware wise, since they released the Game Boy in 1989. The Nintendo fan base is shrinking, and shrinking fast, and you're begging Nintendo to keep catering to that dwindling fan base. How on earth do you think this is a smart decision.

Nintendo has to do something to appeal to those 150 million people who buy playstations or xboxes instead of Wii Us, or they might as well stop making home consoles all together. At this rate the NX Home (if they're silly enough to try and make one platform with two different specs, and completely alienate third parties) will sell less than 10 million worldwide. What then?


Wii U is nothing like Wii so that comparison falls flat on its face. Wii was cheap, simple, had great marketing, lacked software droughts, introduced a lot of new IP/concepts, had low development costs, etc. basically the exact opposite of Wii U.

Nintendo lost the Wii audience not because people no longer liked them but because Nintendo failed to adapt to the changing market and released an unappealing device.

The unified concept makes the most sense for Nintendo on many levels, creating a single platform available in various form factors reduces R&D costs significantly compared to making 2 completely separate platforms, developing games for a single platform vs 2 separate platforms is much more cost and time effective, its much easier and more cost effective to market one single line of devices than to market 2 distinct platforms, there will no longer be software droughts from Nintendo because all of their games will be available on either form factor, Nintendo can diversify their portfolio by creating new IP and reviving old IP at a faster rate since they are no longer forced to make 2 separate entries of all their franchises, 3rd parties are more likely to support a single Nintendo platform vs supporting 2 Nintendo platforms.

The only 3rd parties that would be alienated are the ones that don't and have never really supported Nintendo, companies like Take-Two or Bethesda. Japanese devs like Atlus, Level-5, Capcom, Bandai Namco, Square Enix, Koei Tecmo will all likely be on board as well as Western devs like Activision, Ubisoft, Electronic Arts, Warner Bros with their more family/kids/casual focused software, indies will also like this setup.

Also there is the rumor from Nikkei, which is a pretty reliable source, that Nintendo is planning on using a form of Android for its OS making it extremely easy to port over mobile games to their devices. As devs start abandoning previous gen devices, it seems like they will replace them by making mobile versions kinda like we have seen with Arkham Knight/Mortal Kombat X getting mobile versions, I could see other AAA titles like Call of Duty or Assassin's Creed start to get smaller mobile versions in place of PS3/360 versions. These games coming to NX will benefit Nintendo.

Then there is also the new membership/rewards program that Nintendo is about to roll out where Iwata mentioned things like discounts based on how many games u buy and discounts for referring games to friends. This plan will help make software more affordable for consumers.

Nintendo is also set to significantly increase marketing through various means. Mobile games/apps and IP licensing such as theme park attractions & films/series. These things will make Nintendo more recognizable to millions of people while also generating a ton of revenue for them.

More affordable hardware/software, vastly greater release schedule, increased marketing, among other things can certainly make Nintendo devices much more attractive to consumers, largely the family/kids/casual markets. I have yet to hear from anybody how making a device with a huge focus on the PS/XB audience could succeed, the only argument seems to be, "make more powerful hardware than the competitors and everything will just fall into place".


It's almost laughable how much confidence you have when it's obvious you've never made a console video game, much less a video game for a Nintendo console in your life. I have. What makes you think the Wii had low development costs, or that the development costs of the Wii U are somehow higher? Companies made super cheap shovelware games for the Wii because it sold like gangbusters to casuals, and because third party games sold horrifically, these companies knew they had to be cheap in order to be successful. Making a solid game for the Wii didn't cost less than making a solid game for the X360.

And now you're pretending that this "single platform" will somehow be significantly less expensive to develop as a console for Nintendo than it is to develop two separate platforms, and I'm just curious why you think this. Name me a single video game platform that has supported significantly different hardware specifications, different control schemes/ form factors. Ohh right, none. Care to tell me how much cheaper the NX dev kit will be to develop and purchase than it will be to develop seperate developer kits for the Wii U and 3DS? Because it could actually cost Nintendo more than those two combined, and that's just the developers kits. Based on my experience with Nintendo, their developer kits, and their developer tools, Nintendo is by far the worst platform to develop for. Their tools are serverely lacking compared to Sony and MS, and their Dev Kits are much harder to use and have less features. Now you expect them to develop a dev kit that is arguably the most complicated, sophisticated dev kit ever made, and have it be cheaper than other dev kits, and have improve tools that actually make it easier to develop for compared to its predecessors? That's unrealistic. Is the firmware/OS going to be simpler to create and develop for. Perhaps, but that really is only a benefit for Nintendo itself.

Now, does this really address a game drought? Not really. Since this whole game drought revolves around Nintendo games, and as we have established, Nintendo's first party games do not sell consoles like they used to, spreading all of the Nintendo IPs across both platforms does what exactly? How is this going to sell significantly more games? Which leads me to third parties. Why on earth will they bother? Because it's cheaper to develop a game for NX combined than it is to make a game for both the NX and the 3DS? So what? That's only cheaper for the developers who are already making games for both platforms. For any third party that isn't currently making Wii U or 3DS games, the NX will be far more expensive to develop a game for than it would be to just make a Wii U game or just made a 3DS game, and third parties don't even want to make that investment as it is! Think about it. On the testing side alone you literally doubled the time and cost of testing compared to a PS4 game. Then there's adjustments to things like audio quality, texture quality, 3D models, animations and rigs, UI adjustments, AI and gameplay adjustments for the different specs, etc. etc. All of these things will need to be modified and tested for each specification. It doesn't "just scale".

Aside from that, what realistic reason do you have to think that the NX as a whole will sell so much better than the 3DS to justify the added development costs? You think indies are going to like this set up? It will still be cheaper for them to make a PS4 game than to make an NX game. Why would they bother?

You are making all kinds of baseless assumptions that has convinced you that this unifed platform will be a huge hit, while completely glossing over these gigantic, glaring issues in the whole thing. The unified platform makes sense for Nintendo, and only Nintendo. For third parties it's a disaster waiting to happen



potato_hamster said:
zorg1000 said:


Wii U is nothing like Wii so that comparison falls flat on its face. Wii was cheap, simple, had great marketing, lacked software droughts, introduced a lot of new IP/concepts, had low development costs, etc. basically the exact opposite of Wii U.

Nintendo lost the Wii audience not because people no longer liked them but because Nintendo failed to adapt to the changing market and released an unappealing device.

The unified concept makes the most sense for Nintendo on many levels, creating a single platform available in various form factors reduces R&D costs significantly compared to making 2 completely separate platforms, developing games for a single platform vs 2 separate platforms is much more cost and time effective, its much easier and more cost effective to market one single line of devices than to market 2 distinct platforms, there will no longer be software droughts from Nintendo because all of their games will be available on either form factor, Nintendo can diversify their portfolio by creating new IP and reviving old IP at a faster rate since they are no longer forced to make 2 separate entries of all their franchises, 3rd parties are more likely to support a single Nintendo platform vs supporting 2 Nintendo platforms.

The only 3rd parties that would be alienated are the ones that don't and have never really supported Nintendo, companies like Take-Two or Bethesda. Japanese devs like Atlus, Level-5, Capcom, Bandai Namco, Square Enix, Koei Tecmo will all likely be on board as well as Western devs like Activision, Ubisoft, Electronic Arts, Warner Bros with their more family/kids/casual focused software, indies will also like this setup.

Also there is the rumor from Nikkei, which is a pretty reliable source, that Nintendo is planning on using a form of Android for its OS making it extremely easy to port over mobile games to their devices. As devs start abandoning previous gen devices, it seems like they will replace them by making mobile versions kinda like we have seen with Arkham Knight/Mortal Kombat X getting mobile versions, I could see other AAA titles like Call of Duty or Assassin's Creed start to get smaller mobile versions in place of PS3/360 versions. These games coming to NX will benefit Nintendo.

Then there is also the new membership/rewards program that Nintendo is about to roll out where Iwata mentioned things like discounts based on how many games u buy and discounts for referring games to friends. This plan will help make software more affordable for consumers.

Nintendo is also set to significantly increase marketing through various means. Mobile games/apps and IP licensing such as theme park attractions & films/series. These things will make Nintendo more recognizable to millions of people while also generating a ton of revenue for them.

More affordable hardware/software, vastly greater release schedule, increased marketing, among other things can certainly make Nintendo devices much more attractive to consumers, largely the family/kids/casual markets. I have yet to hear from anybody how making a device with a huge focus on the PS/XB audience could succeed, the only argument seems to be, "make more powerful hardware than the competitors and everything will just fall into place".


It's almost laughable how much confidence you have when it's obvious you've never made a console video game, much less a video game for a Nintendo console in your life. I have. What makes you think the Wii had low development costs, or that the development costs of the Wii U are somehow higher? Companies made super cheap shovelware games for the Wii because it sold like gangbusters to casuals, and because third party games sold horrifically, these companies knew they had to be cheap in order to be successful. Making a solid game for the Wii didn't cost less than making a solid game for the X360.

And now you're pretending that this "single platform" will somehow be significantly less expensive to develop as a console for Nintendo than it is to develop two separate platforms, and I'm just curious why you think this. Name me a single video game platform that has supported significantly different hardware specifications, different control schemes/ form factors. Ohh right, none. Care to tell me how much cheaper the NX dev kit will be to develop and purchase than it will be to develop seperate developer kits for the Wii U and 3DS? Because it could actually cost Nintendo more than those two combined, and that's just the developers kits. Based on my experience with Nintendo, their developer kits, and their developer tools, Nintendo is by far the worst platform to develop for. Their tools are serverely lacking compared to Sony and MS, and their Dev Kits are much harder to use and have less features. Now you expect them to develop a dev kit that is arguably the most complicated, sophisticated dev kit ever made, and have it be cheaper than other dev kits, and have improve tools that actually make it easier to develop for compared to its predecessors? That's unrealistic. Is the firmware/OS going to be simpler to create and develop for. Perhaps, but that really is only a benefit for Nintendo itself.

Now, does this really address a game drought? Not really. Since this whole game drought revolves around Nintendo games, and as we have established, Nintendo's first party games do not sell consoles like they used to, spreading all of the Nintendo IPs across both platforms does what exactly? How is this going to sell significantly more games? Which leads me to third parties. Why on earth will they bother? Because it's cheaper to develop a game for NX combined than it is to make a game for both the NX and the 3DS? So what? That's only cheaper for the developers who are already making games for both platforms. For any third party that isn't currently making Wii U or 3DS games, the NX will be far more expensive to develop a game for than it would be to just make a Wii U game or just made a 3DS game, and third parties don't even want to make that investment as it is! Think about it. On the testing side alone you literally doubled the time and cost of testing compared to a PS4 game. Then there's adjustments to things like audio quality, texture quality, 3D models, animations and rigs, UI adjustments, AI and gameplay adjustments for the different specs, etc. etc. All of these things will need to be modified and tested for each specification. It doesn't "just scale".

Aside from that, what realistic reason do you have to think that the NX as a whole will sell so much better than the 3DS to justify the added development costs? You think indies are going to like this set up? It will still be cheaper for them to make a PS4 game than to make an NX game. Why would they bother?

You are making all kinds of baseless assumptions that has convinced you that this unifed platform will be a huge hit, while completely glossing over these gigantic, glaring issues in the whole thing. The unified platform makes sense for Nintendo, and only Nintendo. For third parties it's a disaster waiting to happen


Third parties are gonna third party. They will support Sony/MS moreso the next 3-4 years no matter what Nintendo does (well Western devs anyway). 

Even if Nintendo made this hypothetical magical third party friendly box, where's the userbase for it? Even the XBox One will be at 30 million+ headstart, meaning the NX will be nothing but a distant third place console, by the time it finds its bearings, XB2/PS5 hype will start to ramp up and Nintendo is back to square one. The only time three consoles have co-existed well was the Wii/PS3/360 era and that involved Nintendo basically not competing at all with Sony/MS and finding a temporary third audience base.  Otherwise the industry has also shunned three different hardware platforms, third parties really just want two and Western third parties already have their darlings in Sony and Microsoft to fill that role, Nintendo isn't needed. 

A unified platform at least will be appealling to Japanese developers, because the portable NX is likely to be the market leader in Japan (sorry PS4). 

Games like MGSV, FFXV, Kindgom Hearts III, etc. I don't doubt would be on the 3DS ... if the 3DS had any prayer of running those games at any resolution without having to completely remake the game from scratch with a completely different version of the game. And even then some developers are willing to do it (ie: Dragon Quest XI for 3DS) because the 3DS userbase is too big to ignore. 



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potato_hamster said:
zorg1000 said:


Wii U is nothing like Wii so that comparison falls flat on its face. Wii was cheap, simple, had great marketing, lacked software droughts, introduced a lot of new IP/concepts, had low development costs, etc. basically the exact opposite of Wii U.

Nintendo lost the Wii audience not because people no longer liked them but because Nintendo failed to adapt to the changing market and released an unappealing device.

The unified concept makes the most sense for Nintendo on many levels, creating a single platform available in various form factors reduces R&D costs significantly compared to making 2 completely separate platforms, developing games for a single platform vs 2 separate platforms is much more cost and time effective, its much easier and more cost effective to market one single line of devices than to market 2 distinct platforms, there will no longer be software droughts from Nintendo because all of their games will be available on either form factor, Nintendo can diversify their portfolio by creating new IP and reviving old IP at a faster rate since they are no longer forced to make 2 separate entries of all their franchises, 3rd parties are more likely to support a single Nintendo platform vs supporting 2 Nintendo platforms.

The only 3rd parties that would be alienated are the ones that don't and have never really supported Nintendo, companies like Take-Two or Bethesda. Japanese devs like Atlus, Level-5, Capcom, Bandai Namco, Square Enix, Koei Tecmo will all likely be on board as well as Western devs like Activision, Ubisoft, Electronic Arts, Warner Bros with their more family/kids/casual focused software, indies will also like this setup.

Also there is the rumor from Nikkei, which is a pretty reliable source, that Nintendo is planning on using a form of Android for its OS making it extremely easy to port over mobile games to their devices. As devs start abandoning previous gen devices, it seems like they will replace them by making mobile versions kinda like we have seen with Arkham Knight/Mortal Kombat X getting mobile versions, I could see other AAA titles like Call of Duty or Assassin's Creed start to get smaller mobile versions in place of PS3/360 versions. These games coming to NX will benefit Nintendo.

Then there is also the new membership/rewards program that Nintendo is about to roll out where Iwata mentioned things like discounts based on how many games u buy and discounts for referring games to friends. This plan will help make software more affordable for consumers.

Nintendo is also set to significantly increase marketing through various means. Mobile games/apps and IP licensing such as theme park attractions & films/series. These things will make Nintendo more recognizable to millions of people while also generating a ton of revenue for them.

More affordable hardware/software, vastly greater release schedule, increased marketing, among other things can certainly make Nintendo devices much more attractive to consumers, largely the family/kids/casual markets. I have yet to hear from anybody how making a device with a huge focus on the PS/XB audience could succeed, the only argument seems to be, "make more powerful hardware than the competitors and everything will just fall into place".


It's almost laughable how much confidence you have when it's obvious you've never made a console video game, much less a video game for a Nintendo console in your life. I have. What makes you think the Wii had low development costs, or that the development costs of the Wii U are somehow higher? Companies made super cheap shovelware games for the Wii because it sold like gangbusters to casuals, and because third party games sold horrifically, these companies knew they had to be cheap in order to be successful. Making a solid game for the Wii didn't cost less than making a solid game for the X360.

And now you're pretending that this "single platform" will somehow be significantly less expensive to develop as a console for Nintendo than it is to develop two separate platforms, and I'm just curious why you think this. Name me a single video game platform that has supported significantly different hardware specifications, different control schemes/ form factors. Ohh right, none. Care to tell me how much cheaper the NX dev kit will be to develop and purchase than it will be to develop seperate developer kits for the Wii U and 3DS? Because it could actually cost Nintendo more than those two combined, and that's just the developers kits. Based on my experience with Nintendo, their developer kits, and their developer tools, Nintendo is by far the worst platform to develop for. Their tools are serverely lacking compared to Sony and MS, and their Dev Kits are much harder to use and have less features. Now you expect them to develop a dev kit that is arguably the most complicated, sophisticated dev kit ever made, and have it be cheaper than other dev kits, and have improve tools that actually make it easier to develop for compared to its predecessors? That's unrealistic. Is the firmware/OS going to be simpler to create and develop for. Perhaps, but that really is only a benefit for Nintendo itself.

Now, does this really address a game drought? Not really. Since this whole game drought revolves around Nintendo games, and as we have established, Nintendo's first party games do not sell consoles like they used to, spreading all of the Nintendo IPs across both platforms does what exactly? How is this going to sell significantly more games? Which leads me to third parties. Why on earth will they bother? Because it's cheaper to develop a game for NX combined than it is to make a game for both the NX and the 3DS? So what? That's only cheaper for the developers who are already making games for both platforms. For any third party that isn't currently making Wii U or 3DS games, the NX will be far more expensive to develop a game for than it would be to just make a Wii U game or just made a 3DS game, and third parties don't even want to make that investment as it is! Think about it. On the testing side alone you literally doubled the time and cost of testing compared to a PS4 game. Then there's adjustments to things like audio quality, texture quality, 3D models, animations and rigs, UI adjustments, AI and gameplay adjustments for the different specs, etc. etc. All of these things will need to be modified and tested for each specification. It doesn't "just scale".

Aside from that, what realistic reason do you have to think that the NX as a whole will sell so much better than the 3DS to justify the added development costs? You think indies are going to like this set up? It will still be cheaper for them to make a PS4 game than to make an NX game. Why would they bother?

You are making all kinds of baseless assumptions that has convinced you that this unifed platform will be a huge hit, while completely glossing over these gigantic, glaring issues in the whole thing. The unified platform makes sense for Nintendo, and only Nintendo. For third parties it's a disaster waiting to happen


First we have to address why u believe the various forms factors will have significantly different hardware and control schemes? Also I remember a recent thread where u were going on about all the same stuff u just wrote then another developer came along, proved u wrong and u backtracked on many of ur statements and agreed with him that such a setup would help on many issues. I'm not going to go back and find the thread/posts buy u know exactly what I'm talking about.



When the herd loses its way, the shepard must kill the bull that leads them astray.

I think I'll be relatively pleased if the portable has an AMD/Nintendo equivalent to the A9X chip, and the "console" if they are going to be multi-SKU route can then be like 3x that power scaled up, which should put it at about 30 watts power consumption at load, the same as the Wii U (a little less actually).

Games can run at 960x540 on the portable, and 1920x1080 on the console.

I'd expect ok/so-so support from Western developers but strong support from Japanese developers and of course all the Nintendo games in one place.

It's not going to be a PS4 killer. Once you let go of that fantasy, things will fall in place. It just has to be profitable for Nintendo first and foremost, and they will be making plenty of money from smartphone games too, so it doesn't even have to carry the entire company on its shoulders any more.



zorg1000 said:
potato_hamster said:


It's almost laughable how much confidence you have when it's obvious you've never made a console video game, much less a video game for a Nintendo console in your life. I have. What makes you think the Wii had low development costs, or that the development costs of the Wii U are somehow higher? Companies made super cheap shovelware games for the Wii because it sold like gangbusters to casuals, and because third party games sold horrifically, these companies knew they had to be cheap in order to be successful. Making a solid game for the Wii didn't cost less than making a solid game for the X360.

And now you're pretending that this "single platform" will somehow be significantly less expensive to develop as a console for Nintendo than it is to develop two separate platforms, and I'm just curious why you think this. Name me a single video game platform that has supported significantly different hardware specifications, different control schemes/ form factors. Ohh right, none. Care to tell me how much cheaper the NX dev kit will be to develop and purchase than it will be to develop seperate developer kits for the Wii U and 3DS? Because it could actually cost Nintendo more than those two combined, and that's just the developers kits. Based on my experience with Nintendo, their developer kits, and their developer tools, Nintendo is by far the worst platform to develop for. Their tools are serverely lacking compared to Sony and MS, and their Dev Kits are much harder to use and have less features. Now you expect them to develop a dev kit that is arguably the most complicated, sophisticated dev kit ever made, and have it be cheaper than other dev kits, and have improve tools that actually make it easier to develop for compared to its predecessors? That's unrealistic. Is the firmware/OS going to be simpler to create and develop for. Perhaps, but that really is only a benefit for Nintendo itself.

Now, does this really address a game drought? Not really. Since this whole game drought revolves around Nintendo games, and as we have established, Nintendo's first party games do not sell consoles like they used to, spreading all of the Nintendo IPs across both platforms does what exactly? How is this going to sell significantly more games? Which leads me to third parties. Why on earth will they bother? Because it's cheaper to develop a game for NX combined than it is to make a game for both the NX and the 3DS? So what? That's only cheaper for the developers who are already making games for both platforms. For any third party that isn't currently making Wii U or 3DS games, the NX will be far more expensive to develop a game for than it would be to just make a Wii U game or just made a 3DS game, and third parties don't even want to make that investment as it is! Think about it. On the testing side alone you literally doubled the time and cost of testing compared to a PS4 game. Then there's adjustments to things like audio quality, texture quality, 3D models, animations and rigs, UI adjustments, AI and gameplay adjustments for the different specs, etc. etc. All of these things will need to be modified and tested for each specification. It doesn't "just scale".

Aside from that, what realistic reason do you have to think that the NX as a whole will sell so much better than the 3DS to justify the added development costs? You think indies are going to like this set up? It will still be cheaper for them to make a PS4 game than to make an NX game. Why would they bother?

You are making all kinds of baseless assumptions that has convinced you that this unifed platform will be a huge hit, while completely glossing over these gigantic, glaring issues in the whole thing. The unified platform makes sense for Nintendo, and only Nintendo. For third parties it's a disaster waiting to happen


First we have to address why u believe the various forms factors will have significantly different hardware and control schemes? Also I remember a recent thread where u were going on about all the same stuff u just wrote then another developer came along, proved u wrong and u backtracked on many of ur statements and agreed with him that such a setup would help on many issues. I'm not going to go back and find the thread/posts buy u know exactly what I'm talking about.

Are they going to have the exact same hardware specifications? No? Are you going to be able to make the same memory allocations? No? Cache sizes? No? etc. etc. Since the answer is "No" then you need to accomodate that. At the end of the day you will never be able to make a game for the NX Home and it "just run" a "scaledown version" on the NX Portable. There is additional costs involved with every specification you add.

You can try to find it if you want. I certainly wasn't proven wrong, and I hardly call what I said "backtracking" as much as I was clarifying that while it may be possible to develop tools, and develop the engine to make some parts of the development more streamlined (some of which I overlooked, and conceded to), it would still at the end of the day be more expensive to develop a game for the NX platform than it would be to develop a game on the PS4 or Xbox One.



potato_hamster said:
zorg1000 said:


First we have to address why u believe the various forms factors will have significantly different hardware and control schemes? Also I remember a recent thread where u were going on about all the same stuff u just wrote then another developer came along, proved u wrong and u backtracked on many of ur statements and agreed with him that such a setup would help on many issues. I'm not going to go back and find the thread/posts buy u know exactly what I'm talking about.


You can try to find it if you want. I certainly wasn't proven wrong, and I hardly call what I said "backtracking" as much as I was clarifying that while it may be possible to develop tools to make some parts of the development more streamlined (which I might have slightly overlooked), it would still at the end of the day be more expensive to develop a game for the NX platform than it would be to develop a game on the PS4 or Xbox One.


Western devs aren't going to support Nintendo strongly no matter what, the only thing that will happen in your scenario is Nintendo stuck having to make seperate games for two seperate platforms and they will predictably choke and die trying to do so, because no developer on the planet can support two pieces of hardware on their own with increasing visual complexity. 

The bus for "lets kiss and make up" between Nintendo and Western developers left a long time ago and it ain't coming back. Western developers don't need Nintendo, and the console NX no matter what won't have anywhere close to the userbase of PS4/XB1 by virtue of the 3-4 year headstart no matter what it does, so at best it will be what? Treated like the third wheel. 



potato_hamster said:
zorg1000 said:


First we have to address why u believe the various forms factors will have significantly different hardware and control schemes? Also I remember a recent thread where u were going on about all the same stuff u just wrote then another developer came along, proved u wrong and u backtracked on many of ur statements and agreed with him that such a setup would help on many issues. I'm not going to go back and find the thread/posts buy u know exactly what I'm talking about.

Are they going to have the exact same hardware specifications? No? Are you going to be able to make the same memory allocations? No? Cache sizes? No? etc. etc. Since the answer is "No" then you need to accomodate that. At the end of the day you will never be able to make a game for the NX Home and it "just run" a "scaledown version" on the NX Portable. There is additional costs involved with every specification you add.

You can try to find it if you want. I certainly wasn't proven wrong, and I hardly call what I said "backtracking" as much as I was clarifying that while it may be possible to develop tools, and develop the engine to make some parts of the development more streamlined (some of which I overlooked, and conceded to), it would still at the end of the day be more expensive to develop a game for the NX platform than it would be to develop a game on the PS4 or Xbox One.

Why can't the hardware specifications be extremely similar, like the newest iPod Touch & Apple TV for example? Like I said earlier, they aren't trying to get the games that are on PS4/XB1, it's to make the games that currently release on Nintendo platforms to be available on either form factor and no longer be segregated. The 3rd party support that it will get will be the Japanese 3rd parties that support Nintendo handhelds, the family/casual friendly western games and indies that both get and if the Android rumors are true than it will likely get a solid chuck of mobile titles.



When the herd loses its way, the shepard must kill the bull that leads them astray.