By using this site, you agree to our Privacy Policy and our Terms of Use. Close

Forums - Gaming - 10 lies games tell us about women

Tagged games:

Nuvendil said:

@generic-user-1

Well the plate armor thing isn't really true. Plate isn't as heavy as you would think. 33-55 pounds. Wearers remained agile and could jump even. And plate armor that is well made balances the weight over your whole body so it's not like you are carrying 33-55 pounds but rather that you weight 33 to 55 pounds more. Just saying

From Wikipedia: A complete suit of plate armour made from well-tempered steel would weigh around 15–25 kg(33-55 pounds).[2] The wearer remained highly agile and could jump, run and otherwise move freely as the weight of the armor was spread evenly throughout the body. The armour was articulated and covered a man's entire body completely from neck to toe. In the 15th and 16th centuries, large bodies of men-at-arms numbering thousands or even more than ten thousand men (as many as 60% of an army) were fighting on foot wearing full plate next to archers and crossbowmen. This was commonly seen in the Western European armies especially of France and England during the Hundred Years War, the Wars of the Roses or the Italian Wars.

So women having to wear next to nothing because they can't wear plate is dumb. That point is true :P

knights armor is chainmail for me. thats 15kg just the body. add  2,5 kg for head and 2,5kgfor arms and your are at 20kg+ helmet+ weapon+ shield+heavy clothes below the armor. thats 30kg min, hard to fight with this as a small 50kg women.  and it will not help you if a 100kg men hits you with a sword or axe anyway.



Around the Network

Let's look at upcoming games with female character :

Horizon: non-blonde, normal bust size
Tomb Raider: non-blonde, normal bust size
Hellblade: non-blonde, normal bust size
Assassin's Creed: Syndicate: non-blonde, normal bust size
Mirror's Edge 2: non-blonde, normal bust size
Dishonoured 2: non-blonde, normal bust size

ReCore: non-blonde, normal bust size



Nuvendil said:

@generic-user-1

Well the plate armor thing isn't really true. Plate isn't as heavy as you would think. 33-55 pounds. Wearers remained agile and could jump even. And plate armor that is well made balances the weight over your whole body so it's not like you are carrying 33-55 pounds but rather that you weight 33 to 55 pounds more. Just saying

From Wikipedia: A complete suit of plate armour made from well-tempered steel would weigh around 15–25 kg(33-55 pounds).[2] The wearer remained highly agile and could jump, run and otherwise move freely as the weight of the armor was spread evenly throughout the body. The armour was articulated and covered a man's entire body completely from neck to toe. In the 15th and 16th centuries, large bodies of men-at-arms numbering thousands or even more than ten thousand men (as many as 60% of an army) were fighting on foot wearing full plate next to archers and crossbowmen. This was commonly seen in the Western European armies especially of France and England during the Hundred Years War, the Wars of the Roses or the Italian Wars.

So women having to wear next to nothing because they can't wear plate is dumb. That point is true :P


In full atire a woman would be very rare. And including weapon and shield women were not only the rarest thing to see but even if it were true they  would not be able to keep fighting as an average man does.

 

Just saying a fully equipped woman would likely be double her weight. Back then Men and women were shorter and not as healthy.

 

It is likely they did not wear any plate in actual battles (maybe in joust, duel or as commander)



Is this memes? This feels likes memes.

Also, I find it interesting how they make a comment about how women are defined by their relationships and men are defined by their occupation as if one is a great thing and the other is horrible.



Farsala said:
Nuvendil said:

@generic-user-1

Well the plate armor thing isn't really true. Plate isn't as heavy as you would think. 33-55 pounds. Wearers remained agile and could jump even. And plate armor that is well made balances the weight over your whole body so it's not like you are carrying 33-55 pounds but rather that you weight 33 to 55 pounds more. Just saying

From Wikipedia: A complete suit of plate armour made from well-tempered steel would weigh around 15–25 kg(33-55 pounds).[2] The wearer remained highly agile and could jump, run and otherwise move freely as the weight of the armor was spread evenly throughout the body. The armour was articulated and covered a man's entire body completely from neck to toe. In the 15th and 16th centuries, large bodies of men-at-arms numbering thousands or even more than ten thousand men (as many as 60% of an army) were fighting on foot wearing full plate next to archers and crossbowmen. This was commonly seen in the Western European armies especially of France and England during the Hundred Years War, the Wars of the Roses or the Italian Wars.

So women having to wear next to nothing because they can't wear plate is dumb. That point is true :P


In full atire a woman would be very rare. And including weapon and shield women were not only the rarest thing to see but even if it were true they  would not be able to keep fighting as an average man does.

 

Just saying a fully equipped woman would likely be double her weight. Back then Men and women were shorter and not as healthy.

 

It is likely they did not wear any plate in actual battles (maybe in joust, duel or as commander)

That has more to do with the rarity of professional female combatants.  I was simply saying that they are more than physically capable with training.  And plate armor runs into an issue when you bring in the posibility the woman in question has large breasts.  Plate isn't flexible so if the armor has to come out too much it will obstruct movement. 

generic-user-1 said:
Nuvendil said:

@generic-user-1

Well the plate armor thing isn't really true. Plate isn't as heavy as you would think. 33-55 pounds. Wearers remained agile and could jump even. And plate armor that is well made balances the weight over your whole body so it's not like you are carrying 33-55 pounds but rather that you weight 33 to 55 pounds more. Just saying

From Wikipedia: A complete suit of plate armour made from well-tempered steel would weigh around 15–25 kg(33-55 pounds).[2] The wearer remained highly agile and could jump, run and otherwise move freely as the weight of the armor was spread evenly throughout the body. The armour was articulated and covered a man's entire body completely from neck to toe. In the 15th and 16th centuries, large bodies of men-at-arms numbering thousands or even more than ten thousand men (as many as 60% of an army) were fighting on foot wearing full plate next to archers and crossbowmen. This was commonly seen in the Western European armies especially of France and England during the Hundred Years War, the Wars of the Roses or the Italian Wars.

So women having to wear next to nothing because they can't wear plate is dumb. That point is true :P

knights armor is chainmail for me. thats 15kg just the body. add  2,5 kg for head and 2,5kgfor arms and your are at 20kg+ helmet+ weapon+ shield+heavy clothes below the armor. thats 30kg min, hard to fight with this as a small 50kg women.  and it will not help you if a 100kg men hits you with a sword or axe anyway.

Chainmail faded out for exactly that reason dude.  It weighed way too much and didn't distribute weight worth anything.  You were carrying a ton of weight just on your shoulders.  Again, from Wikipedia:

By the 14th century, plate armour was commonly used to supplement mail. Eventually mail was supplanted by plate for the most part as it provided greater protection against windlass crossbows, bludgeoning weapons, and lance charges. However, mail was still widely used by many soldiers as well as brigandines and padded jacks. These three types of armour made up the bulk of the equipment used by soldiers with mail being the most expensive. It was sometimes more expensive than plate armour.[18]

Mail was heavier, more expensive, and less effective than full plate armor so there was no reason to have your all important knights running around in it.  So your whole point is kinda moot, depending on the time period of the game.  Assuming it isn't the early middle ages even knights aren't going to be primarily wearing mail.  Many won't be wearing any mail. 

Also, armor weight is going to decrease as the size of the wearer decreases.  A woman is several inches shorter than a man = all articles of armor weigh less.  Further, you can't look at an average woman and ask if she could wear knight's armor when it wasn't even average men who were knights.  Male knights underwent extensive training to be good at what they did, so would a woman.

I'm not saying men and women are equal in strength; it would take an exceptional woman to keep up.  But to say that female characters should be clad it two steal bra cups and some skin tight leather when they go into battle (which some games still seem to insist on) is just crazy talk.  They would be more than physically capable to wear partial plate, full plate, brigandine, scale mail, etc. 



Around the Network
foodfather said:
Johnw1104 said:

I'll admit I'm really sick of that "I'm a tough, snarky woman that can only justify my presence in the company of these men by being impossibly capable as a fighter and more hostile than a spitting cobra until, later on in the game, I reveal that I'm actually emotionally vulnerable, scarred, and just want to be hugged" trope.


Thats was Hollywood's way of saying, ''we get it, women can be captain's of industries too.... but just you wait till shit hits the fan...'' And you are quite right, the trope is still being used today (Jurrasic World). I'm not defending it, but until you've had a female boss in the workless (I've had 4 different ones over the years) you will know there is some truth to it. They buckle under pressure real easily. 

Nymeria said:
I just want good characters


Just about the only sentiment to come from this article that actually matters. 

Good character, regardless or appearence/ personality trope/ personality flaw is what matters, and thats just what 99% of games and movies for that matter fail to deliver. 

Personally I believe that women are generally not too trained to deal with reality- whereas men are far more often encouraged to face it headstrong, even if it would crush them. What doesn't kill you... ;) And refraining girls from such challenges through youth won't ever change anything- most of them will still remain immature on that specific plane, so to say. Either that- or the female dual x-chromosome composition must perform really poorly in terms of triggering any greater achievements in life: Just widen eyes around, and even one on their slithering way out should find the futility in fleeing this profuse validating of my final claim, unless you were raised in the little girl's true arts...? They are medusas, and the worst thing is that I am yet quite fond of them.

As for quality; takes time and good long-term decision making in design. Anyone with an open mind who has worked on a game him-/herself knows this fractal: Rushing your game is the perfect recipe to make it fail and wind up in the hollow/soulless/hackney compartment- filling in the gaps with thin air or applying other feeble forms of compensation only gives you so much in return. Sometimes, life is undeniably fair.



Nuvendil said:
Farsala said:
Nuvendil said:

@generic-user-1

Well the plate armor thing isn't really true. Plate isn't as heavy as you would think. 33-55 pounds. Wearers remained agile and could jump even. And plate armor that is well made balances the weight over your whole body so it's not like you are carrying 33-55 pounds but rather that you weight 33 to 55 pounds more. Just saying

From Wikipedia: A complete suit of plate armour made from well-tempered steel would weigh around 15–25 kg(33-55 pounds).[2] The wearer remained highly agile and could jump, run and otherwise move freely as the weight of the armor was spread evenly throughout the body. The armour was articulated and covered a man's entire body completely from neck to toe. In the 15th and 16th centuries, large bodies of men-at-arms numbering thousands or even more than ten thousand men (as many as 60% of an army) were fighting on foot wearing full plate next to archers and crossbowmen. This was commonly seen in the Western European armies especially of France and England during the Hundred Years War, the Wars of the Roses or the Italian Wars.

So women having to wear next to nothing because they can't wear plate is dumb. That point is true :P


In full atire a woman would be very rare. And including weapon and shield women were not only the rarest thing to see but even if it were true they  would not be able to keep fighting as an average man does.

 

Just saying a fully equipped woman would likely be double her weight. Back then Men and women were shorter and not as healthy.

 

It is likely they did not wear any plate in actual battles (maybe in joust, duel or as commander)

That has more to do with the rarity of professional female combatants.  I was simply saying that they are more than physically capable with training.  And plate armor runs into an issue when you bring in the posibility the woman in question has large breasts.  Plate isn't flexible so if the armor has to come out too much it will obstruct movement. 

generic-user-1 said:
Nuvendil said:

 


It is likely that most women at that time had small breasts as they were shorter and not as healthy. And although the armor scales down to a womans size it was also true for most men. Average man today would have much bigger and heavier armor then is listed in wikipedia. But the shields and weapons being scaled down would not be feasible.

 

Now i do not want to speak in absolutes but I do not think training women had much success due to them not being able to handle standard issued weapons and armor.

 

I get what you are saying though.



Farsala said:
Nuvendil said:
Farsala said:
Nuvendil said:

@generic-user-1

Well the plate armor thing isn't really true. Plate isn't as heavy as you would think. 33-55 pounds. Wearers remained agile and could jump even. And plate armor that is well made balances the weight over your whole body so it's not like you are carrying 33-55 pounds but rather that you weight 33 to 55 pounds more. Just saying

From Wikipedia: A complete suit of plate armour made from well-tempered steel would weigh around 15–25 kg(33-55 pounds).[2] The wearer remained highly agile and could jump, run and otherwise move freely as the weight of the armor was spread evenly throughout the body. The armour was articulated and covered a man's entire body completely from neck to toe. In the 15th and 16th centuries, large bodies of men-at-arms numbering thousands or even more than ten thousand men (as many as 60% of an army) were fighting on foot wearing full plate next to archers and crossbowmen. This was commonly seen in the Western European armies especially of France and England during the Hundred Years War, the Wars of the Roses or the Italian Wars.

So women having to wear next to nothing because they can't wear plate is dumb. That point is true :P


In full atire a woman would be very rare. And including weapon and shield women were not only the rarest thing to see but even if it were true they  would not be able to keep fighting as an average man does.

 

Just saying a fully equipped woman would likely be double her weight. Back then Men and women were shorter and not as healthy.

 

It is likely they did not wear any plate in actual battles (maybe in joust, duel or as commander)

That has more to do with the rarity of professional female combatants.  I was simply saying that they are more than physically capable with training.  And plate armor runs into an issue when you bring in the posibility the woman in question has large breasts.  Plate isn't flexible so if the armor has to come out too much it will obstruct movement. 

generic-user-1 said:
Nuvendil said:

 


It is likely that most women at that time had small breasts as they were shorter and not as healthy. And although the armor scales down to a womans size it was also true for most men. Average man today would have much bigger and heavier armor then is listed in wikipedia. But the shields and weapons being scaled down would not be feasible.

 

Now i do not want to speak in absolutes but I do not think training women had much success due to them not being able to handle standard issued weapons and armor.

 

I get what you are saying though.

Well weapons not so much as armor.  Armour would have to be custom made.  Weapons?  Well weapons are fairly diverse in selection. 



A few of them are true. Most of them are false and are based on regurjitating these cliches they've heard without doing any actual analysis of real data. The bust size one is almost definitely false nowadays (though may have been true in the past. They gave the example of Lara. She's a regular size now for god's sake!

The helpless one is ridiculous nonsense. Game designers have been deliberately avoiding that for years now. It's a tiny fraction of what it once was.

The strength one is just weird. Are they disputing the fact that women are physically weaker than men in reality? Cos that's kinda easy to prove guys :-|

The 1/5 of the population desperately needs some data to back it up and looks complete nonsense to me. In most games that represent an actual world of some kind (rather than some cowboys or space marines for example), the populations seem pretty much 50:50 to me. Go and play any RPG and count before you make baseless claims.



Nuvendil said:

 

generic-user-1 said:
Nuvendil said:

@generic-user-1

Well the plate armor thing isn't really true. Plate isn't as heavy as you would think. 33-55 pounds. Wearers remained agile and could jump even. And plate armor that is well made balances the weight over your whole body so it's not like you are carrying 33-55 pounds but rather that you weight 33 to 55 pounds more. Just saying

From Wikipedia: A complete suit of plate armour made from well-tempered steel would weigh around 15–25 kg(33-55 pounds).[2] The wearer remained highly agile and could jump, run and otherwise move freely as the weight of the armor was spread evenly throughout the body. The armour was articulated and covered a man's entire body completely from neck to toe. In the 15th and 16th centuries, large bodies of men-at-arms numbering thousands or even more than ten thousand men (as many as 60% of an army) were fighting on foot wearing full plate next to archers and crossbowmen. This was commonly seen in the Western European armies especially of France and England during the Hundred Years War, the Wars of the Roses or the Italian Wars.

So women having to wear next to nothing because they can't wear plate is dumb. That point is true :P

knights armor is chainmail for me. thats 15kg just the body. add  2,5 kg for head and 2,5kgfor arms and your are at 20kg+ helmet+ weapon+ shield+heavy clothes below the armor. thats 30kg min, hard to fight with this as a small 50kg women.  and it will not help you if a 100kg men hits you with a sword or axe anyway.

Chainmail faded out for exactly that reason dude.  It weighed way too much and didn't distribute weight worth anything.  You were carrying a ton of weight just on your shoulders.  Again, from Wikipedia:

By the 14th century, plate armour was commonly used to supplement mail. Eventually mail was supplanted by plate for the most part as it provided greater protection against windlass crossbows, bludgeoning weapons, and lance charges. However, mail was still widely used by many soldiers as well as brigandines and padded jacks. These three types of armour made up the bulk of the equipment used by soldiers with mail being the most expensive. It was sometimes more expensive than plate armour.[18]

Mail was heavier, more expensive, and less effective than full plate armor so there was no reason to have your all important knights running around in it.  So your whole point is kinda moot, depending on the time period of the game.  Assuming it isn't the early middle ages even knights aren't going to be primarily wearing mail.  Many won't be wearing any mail. 

Also, armor weight is going to decrease as the size of the wearer decreases.  A woman is several inches shorter than a man = all articles of armor weigh less.  Further, you can't look at an average woman and ask if she could wear knight's armor when it wasn't even average men who were knights.  Male knights underwent extensive training to be good at what they did, so would a woman.

I'm not saying men and women are equal in strength; it would take an exceptional woman to keep up.  But to say that female characters should be clad it two steal bra cups and some skin tight leather when they go into battle (which some games still seem to insist on) is just crazy talk.  They would be more than physically capable to wear partial plate, full plate, brigandine, scale mail, etc. 

most of the middle age was way before the age of plate armor and the high point of knights was in the high middle age, thats before plate.

knights were average men trained to be warriors. you can train an average women as long as you want, she will never be able to be a usefull knight and even a normal warbow is too big for a average women.

there are good reasons why women normaly didnt fight on the battlefield in the middle ages.

female warriors have two sources in western cultur, amazons and valkyries, both not known for wearing alot of clothes or armor. and well both lines are caucasian, and atleast the valkyries are often pictures as blond women with huge boobs.