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Forums - Gaming Discussion - 10 lies games tell us about women

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MikeRox on 28 August 2015
Farsala said:
Nuvendil said:
Farsala said:
Nuvendil said:

@generic-user-1

Well the plate armor thing isn't really true. Plate isn't as heavy as you would think. 33-55 pounds. Wearers remained agile and could jump even. And plate armor that is well made balances the weight over your whole body so it's not like you are carrying 33-55 pounds but rather that you weight 33 to 55 pounds more. Just saying

From Wikipedia: A complete suit of plate armour made from well-tempered steel would weigh around 15–25 kg(33-55 pounds).[2] The wearer remained highly agile and could jump, run and otherwise move freely as the weight of the armor was spread evenly throughout the body. The armour was articulated and covered a man's entire body completely from neck to toe. In the 15th and 16th centuries, large bodies of men-at-arms numbering thousands or even more than ten thousand men (as many as 60% of an army) were fighting on foot wearing full plate next to archers and crossbowmen. This was commonly seen in the Western European armies especially of France and England during the Hundred Years War, the Wars of the Roses or the Italian Wars.

So women having to wear next to nothing because they can't wear plate is dumb. That point is true :P


In full atire a woman would be very rare. And including weapon and shield women were not only the rarest thing to see but even if it were true they  would not be able to keep fighting as an average man does.

 

Just saying a fully equipped woman would likely be double her weight. Back then Men and women were shorter and not as healthy.

 

It is likely they did not wear any plate in actual battles (maybe in joust, duel or as commander)

That has more to do with the rarity of professional female combatants.  I was simply saying that they are more than physically capable with training.  And plate armor runs into an issue when you bring in the posibility the woman in question has large breasts.  Plate isn't flexible so if the armor has to come out too much it will obstruct movement. 

generic-user-1 said:
Nuvendil said:

 


It is likely that most women at that time had small breasts as they were shorter and not as healthy. And although the armor scales down to a womans size it was also true for most men. Average man today would have much bigger and heavier armor then is listed in wikipedia. But the shields and weapons being scaled down would not be feasible.

 

Now i do not want to speak in absolutes but I do not think training women had much success due to them not being able to handle standard issued weapons and armor.

 

I get what you are saying though.

 

I'm not sure armour and strengthetc have anything to do with it. It's basic survival instinct. Men are more expendable tthan women. And this dates back to tribal times.

Send your nmen to war, and as long as a few return. They can fully reproduce to the maximum number of women. Lose most of the tribe's women however and reproduction is heavily limited.

It is this thinking that has led to the current social attitudes towards men and women. It's a hangover from survival of the fittest and ensuring reproduction continues.



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method114 on 28 August 2015

It's a video game it's not trying to be based in reality. This is like saying Dragon age lied to us because dragons don't exist.



Farsala on 28 August 2015
MikeRox said:
Farsala said:
Nuvendil said:
Farsala said:
Nuvendil said:

@generic-user-1

Well the plate armor thing isn't really true. Plate isn't as heavy as you would think. 33-55 pounds. Wearers remained agile and could jump even. And plate armor that is well made balances the weight over your whole body so it's not like you are carrying 33-55 pounds but rather that you weight 33 to 55 pounds more. Just saying

From Wikipedia: A complete suit of plate armour made from well-tempered steel would weigh around 15–25 kg(33-55 pounds).[2] The wearer remained highly agile and could jump, run and otherwise move freely as the weight of the armor was spread evenly throughout the body. The armour was articulated and covered a man's entire body completely from neck to toe. In the 15th and 16th centuries, large bodies of men-at-arms numbering thousands or even more than ten thousand men (as many as 60% of an army) were fighting on foot wearing full plate next to archers and crossbowmen. This was commonly seen in the Western European armies especially of France and England during the Hundred Years War, the Wars of the Roses or the Italian Wars.

So women having to wear next to nothing because they can't wear plate is dumb. That point is true :P


In full atire a woman would be very rare. And including weapon and shield women were not only the rarest thing to see but even if it were true they  would not be able to keep fighting as an average man does.

 

Just saying a fully equipped woman would likely be double her weight. Back then Men and women were shorter and not as healthy.

 

It is likely they did not wear any plate in actual battles (maybe in joust, duel or as commander)

That has more to do with the rarity of professional female combatants.  I was simply saying that they are more than physically capable with training.  And plate armor runs into an issue when you bring in the posibility the woman in question has large breasts.  Plate isn't flexible so if the armor has to come out too much it will obstruct movement. 

generic-user-1 said:
Nuvendil said:

 


It is likely that most women at that time had small breasts as they were shorter and not as healthy. And although the armor scales down to a womans size it was also true for most men. Average man today would have much bigger and heavier armor then is listed in wikipedia. But the shields and weapons being scaled down would not be feasible.

 

Now i do not want to speak in absolutes but I do not think training women had much success due to them not being able to handle standard issued weapons and armor.

 

I get what you are saying though.

 

I'm not sure armour and strengthetc have anything to do with it. It's basic survival instinct. Men are more expendable tthan women. And this dates back to tribal times.

Send your nmen to war, and as long as a few return. They can fully reproduce to the maximum number of women. Lose most of the tribe's women however and reproduction is heavily limited.

It is this thinking that has led to the current social attitudes towards men and women. It's a hangover from survival of the fittest and ensuring reproduction continues.


It is also the idea of most effective army. If 100 men fought against 100 women it is likely the men win. In modern times people are questioning the effectiveness of putting females in the army, due to strength and mans natural instinct to protect women. And thus break formation, go berserk, etc.


So it is not all about reproduction.



StarOcean on 28 August 2015

The average bust size is EE

 The problem hardly stops at Lara Croft though. On this issue, the prime-evil is no doubt Team Ninja. Their Dead or Alive series was once known for its "jiggle physics," a physics engine that was about as true-to-life as Mario Galaxy. And who could forget Rachel from Ninja Gaiden, (read: everyone) who embodies just about every problem on this list.

I know a lot of women with large breasts, guess what? They're proud of them. Not every female is a B cup like these articles seem to believe. What's wrong with a woman having large breasts? It's all fake, no one believes it's real. So why pretend it is? And since there are women out there with large breasts why discriminate them from appearing in media? That's not fair to them just because a few jealous A cups don't look that way.

Women account for 1/5 of the population
This problem exists across all media, but it's just as prominent in video games: the token woman. It is exceedingly rare to find a video game in which 50% of the characters are of the female gender.
It may be hard to believe but there are more males than females on Earth right now, at least at the moment according to the Human Sex Ratio. It's not quite 1/5, but the point still stands. But why should a creator be forced to make a cast with 50% female leads if the creator doesn't want to or did not intend on it? All this does is restrict creativity and force soulless characters that only exist because they have to. Let the creator make the game they want, not every game is Lucky Star where 98% of the cast is female. Let creators make what they want, don't restrict them with this imaginary "equality" (which is as about as real as Santa Clause btw) BS that just needs to exist in every game.
They're completely and utterly helpless
Some appearances of this trope are mostly accidental. Sometimes the game's AI is just terrible, causing the escort mission to be a frustrating mess as the lady you're escorting stands around getting shot. Other times the entire game is purposefully built around the idea of the woman being helpless
AI in most games is retarded. This isn't just women, it affects men too. And escort missions aren't only used for women, I've played many games where you escort a guy and guess what? 99% of the time they run into enemies because they're stupid. This isn't a woman exclusive issue. This is a gaming issue that progressively gets better as devs learn to make AI more intelligent. And so what? If a woman in a game is helpless, let them be helpless. Is it somehow better when a man is helpless? That sounds a bit sexist and hypocritical if you ask me
...or they're world-weary and sarcastic

Not every female character is inept, but if they're not incapable of walking down the street without a brave man helping them they're a world-weary soldier who has nothing left to believe in or a sarcastic jerk who has seen it all. Optional additions include: dark secrets, or a nurturing heart deep beneath the gruff exterior that only needs to be reawakened by the warm manly embrace of compassion.

Most women I know are sarcastic or "world weary". Why is it such a bad thing to have them like this? Must every woman be strong, independent, without any hint of personality whatsoever? That'd be very boring and it's a lot harder to connect emotionally to a brick wall than someone who does act specific ways. Also @underlined, that's bullshit and they know it. 

Common female occupations include Attractive Scientist and Daughter of Important Man
Women living in video games have a relatively small pool of jobs to pick from. Maybe they'll find themselves a clipboard and a pair of cute glasses to become Attractive Female Scientist, earning their keep by knowing passwords to doors you need to open.
Again, why is this a problem? Should the female be a construction worker? A teacher? A part-time employee of McDonald's? And is it so bad to have an attractive scientist? It's great that they're making females scientists! Science is a very important thing and promoting it is far from bad. "Daughter of important man" so? In Dragon Quest 90% of the heroes are sons/daughters of great kings and queens. Perhaps all characters should be realistically poor and don't belong to anyone important at all? Why? If the creator wants to make them related to someone important, let them.
Approximately 75% of women are blonde Caucasians
Male video game characters have enough problems with getting equal representation of all races and body types, but women have got it even worse. We’ve already established that in the world of video games women represent just 20% of the population.
I'm sorry but Mario and Metroid don't make up 75% of video games. This kind of proves the entire article was written by someone who doesn't know what they're talking about at all. It's not even close to 75% being "blonde caucasian" women. And if so, why does it matter? If in the world the game creator makes has women white and blonde why should it matter to you? It's their vision. Also, 20% making up cast (women, not blonde/white) is true, but entire video game populations (background characters and all) thats a lie right there. Also what do these journalist have against white people who are blonde anyway? XD I'm blonde and white as is my girlfriend, why are we so hated among the SJW community? ;~;
Ladies lack strength, but make up for it with gymnastics training

This might be the most prevalent lie on this list. We've all seen it. The female RPG character whose strength stat is at 3, but her agility is 14. Or the action game character who can't wield the bazooka, but has a special move where she cartwheels onto the enemy's head and breaks his neck with her mighty, dangerous crotch.

The strength and agility thing is common for the most part and I agree. But it's not really a problem when biologically women tend to be weaker but have better agility and flexability. It's not a rule that has to be followed and isn't always, but this tends to sit in the realm of JRPGs and fighting games. Also, since this is more realistic, why is this a complaint? The whole point of the article is to prove "lies" games tell us. This is an average and thus really isn't a lie. 

Latex is armor for women

We won't be the first people to comment on the absurd outfits game developers put their women characters into, but it's worth dredging up this sore subject one more time. Video game ladies run off to battle in outfits that look more like they're headed to a Zumba class than a war.

I'll agree they wear outfits that expose themselves to appeal to their male audience. But when most people who buy games are male, why not pander to them? It makes most financial sense as it increases the odds of some horny teen to go out and buy the game. Is it right? Probably not. But if your audience is more likely to buy your game based on the clothing specific characters wear, why would you pass that up to be politically correct? This isn't a medium about morals, its a form of media like any other that is in search of the ultimate prize: A lot of money. This goes for most of these points actually.

Women battle demons while nude

Latex may not be the optimal battle raiment, but at least it might protect you from a few scuffs, bruises, and scrapes. Some game developers don't even have the courtesy to give their characters a t-shirt before sending them off to fight the prime evils.

This isn't an issue in most games. This is more of a nitpick than anything important.



Rafie on 28 August 2015
StarOcean said:

The average bust size is EE

 The problem hardly stops at Lara Croft though. On this issue, the prime-evil is no doubt Team Ninja. Their Dead or Alive series was once known for its "jiggle physics," a physics engine that was about as true-to-life as Mario Galaxy. And who could forget Rachel from Ninja Gaiden, (read: everyone) who embodies just about every problem on this list.

I know a lot of women with large breasts, guess what? They're proud of them. Not every female is a B cup like these articles seem to believe. What's wrong with a woman having large breasts? It's all fake, no one believes it's real. So why pretend it is? And since there are women out there with large breasts why discriminate them from appearing in media? That's not fair to them just because a few jealous A cups don't look that way.

Women account for 1/5 of the population
This problem exists across all media, but it's just as prominent in video games: the token woman. It is exceedingly rare to find a video game in which 50% of the characters are of the female gender.
It may be hard to believe but there are more males than females on Earth right now, at least at the moment according to the Human Sex Ratio. It's not quite 1/5, but the point still stands. But why should a creator be forced to make a cast with 50% female leads if the creator doesn't want to or did not intend on it? All this does is restrict creativity and force soulless characters that only exist because they have to. Let the creator make the game they want, not every game is Lucky Star where 98% of the cast is female. Let creators make what they want, don't restrict them with this imaginary "equality" (which is as about as real as Santa Clause btw) BS that just needs to exist in every game.
They're completely and utterly helpless
Some appearances of this trope are mostly accidental. Sometimes the game's AI is just terrible, causing the escort mission to be a frustrating mess as the lady you're escorting stands around getting shot. Other times the entire game is purposefully built around the idea of the woman being helpless
AI in most games is retarded. This isn't just women, it affects men too. And escort missions aren't only used for women, I've played many games where you escort a guy and guess what? 99% of the time they run into enemies because they're stupid. This isn't a woman exclusive issue. This is a gaming issue that progressively gets better as devs learn to make AI more intelligent. And so what? If a woman in a game is helpless, let them be helpless. Is it somehow better when a man is helpless? That sounds a bit sexist and hypocritical if you ask me
...or they're world-weary and sarcastic

Not every female character is inept, but if they're not incapable of walking down the street without a brave man helping them they're a world-weary soldier who has nothing left to believe in or a sarcastic jerk who has seen it all. Optional additions include: dark secrets, or a nurturing heart deep beneath the gruff exterior that only needs to be reawakened by the warm manly embrace of compassion.

Most women I know are sarcastic or "world weary". Why is it such a bad thing to have them like this? Must every woman be strong, independent, without any hint of personality whatsoever? That'd be very boring and it's a lot harder to connect emotionally to a brick wall than someone who does act specific ways. Also @underlined, that's bullshit and they know it. 

Common female occupations include Attractive Scientist and Daughter of Important Man
Women living in video games have a relatively small pool of jobs to pick from. Maybe they'll find themselves a clipboard and a pair of cute glasses to become Attractive Female Scientist, earning their keep by knowing passwords to doors you need to open.
Again, why is this a problem? Should the female be a construction worker? A teacher? A part-time employee of McDonald's? And is it so bad to have an attractive scientist? It's great that they're making females scientists! Science is a very important thing and promoting it is far from bad. "Daughter of important man" so? In Dragon Quest 90% of the heroes are sons/daughters of great kings and queens. Perhaps all characters should be realistically poor and don't belong to anyone important at all? Why? If the creator wants to make them related to someone important, let them.
Approximately 75% of women are blonde Caucasians
Male video game characters have enough problems with getting equal representation of all races and body types, but women have got it even worse. We’ve already established that in the world of video games women represent just 20% of the population.
I'm sorry but Mario and Metroid don't make up 75% of video games. This kind of proves the entire article was written by someone who doesn't know what they're talking about at all. It's not even close to 75% being "blonde caucasian" women. And if so, why does it matter? If in the world the game creator makes has women white and blonde why should it matter to you? It's their vision. Also, 20% making up cast (women, not blonde/white) is true, but entire video game populations (background characters and all) thats a lie right there. Also what do these journalist have against white people who are blonde anyway? XD I'm blonde and white as is my girlfriend, why are we so hated among the SJW community? ;~;
Ladies lack strength, but make up for it with gymnastics training

This might be the most prevalent lie on this list. We've all seen it. The female RPG character whose strength stat is at 3, but her agility is 14. Or the action game character who can't wield the bazooka, but has a special move where she cartwheels onto the enemy's head and breaks his neck with her mighty, dangerous crotch.

The strength and agility thing is common for the most part and I agree. But it's not really a problem when biologically women tend to be weaker but have better agility and flexability. It's not a rule that has to be followed and isn't always, but this tends to sit in the realm of JRPGs and fighting games. Also, since this is more realistic, why is this a complaint? The whole point of the article is to prove "lies" games tell us. This is an average and thus really isn't a lie. 

Latex is armor for women

We won't be the first people to comment on the absurd outfits game developers put their women characters into, but it's worth dredging up this sore subject one more time. Video game ladies run off to battle in outfits that look more like they're headed to a Zumba class than a war.

I'll agree they wear outfits that expose themselves to appeal to their male audience. But when most people who buy games are male, why not pander to them? It makes most financial sense as it increases the odds of some horny teen to go out and buy the game. Is it right? Probably not. But if your audience is more likely to buy your game based on the clothing specific characters wear, why would you pass that up to be politically correct? This isn't a medium about morals, its a form of media like any other that is in search of the ultimate prize: A lot of money. This goes for most of these points actually.

Women battle demons while nude

Latex may not be the optimal battle raiment, but at least it might protect you from a few scuffs, bruises, and scrapes. Some game developers don't even have the courtesy to give their characters a t-shirt before sending them off to fight the prime evils.

This isn't an issue in most games. This is more of a nitpick than anything important.


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Nymeria on 28 August 2015
the_dark_lewd said:

The strength one is just weird. Are they disputing the fact that women are physically weaker than men in reality? Cos that's kinda easy to prove guys :-|


I always get annoyed when people diminish women's athletic accomplishments by wanting them to compete with men.  We are simply too different biologically to not be segregated in competitions of athleticism.  It is fine to admit that and makes no one "lesser" as a person.  



Qwark on 28 August 2015

Well most developers are Western males and gamers are mostly males and they like the points discribed so what is the problem?



Please excuse my (probally) poor grammar

generic-user-1 on 28 August 2015
Nymeria said:
the_dark_lewd said:

The strength one is just weird. Are they disputing the fact that women are physically weaker than men in reality? Cos that's kinda easy to prove guys :-|


I always get annoyed when people diminish women's athletic accomplishments by wanting them to compete with men.  We are simply too different biologically to not be segregated in competitions of athleticism.  It is fine to admit that and makes no one "lesser" as a person.  

nobody cares for your gender or if your doped or not on the battlefield.  



Zoombael on 28 August 2015

next thing they wanna tell us: video games arent a 1:1 depiction of the real world. people cant jump 5 meters into the air. no demigod in ancient times fought creatures of mythology half naked. you cant survive a jump from a 100 meter building into a haystack. cake is not a lie, you can buy one in a cake shop. reloading doesnt let you keep the bullets of the dumped magazine. lasers weapons firing green/red/yellow/pink beams dont exist. a human cant sprint infinitely. a man armed with a claw as a weapon is with high certainty able to overpower any of his bare fists fighting opponents easily.

Incredibly stupid this is. wall of facepalm worthy.



Hunting Season is done...

Zkuq on 28 August 2015

Some of those are really good points, some are not. None are original.

Why are some of them not so good? Because by the same logic I could criticize real world. Here, probably 90% of people are caucasian. Is that racism? No, that's where I live. The same goes for games and women. If it's a military settings, chances are there wouldn't be many women there even in the real world. And guess what: military settings is an extremely popular setting in games.