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Forums - Sony Discussion - If Xb one can do emulation BC for 360, then PS4 should be able to easily do emulation BC for PS2

Imnus on 15 August 2015
OdinHades said:
Emulation is never exactly easy. Sure, the PS4 has enough power. But that doesn't mean that the software is gonna write itself and test every friggin' PS2 game for bugs and glitches. That's what Sony has to do and I'm pretty sure they are already on it. But there's a difference in release politics between Microsoft and Sony. Microsoft never had a problem with launching buggy software with many features still missing (I'm looking at you, Windows 98!). They just finish it with updates, updates and more updates. Sony on the other hand is used to complete a software (or hardware) and only launch it when it's working almost flawlessly. So we will not see a PS2 emulator that supports around 50-100 games at the beginning. We will only see it when it supports at least 90% of the PS2 library.


Exactly.



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jason1637 on 15 August 2015

Not a 100% sure but i think that the ps3 was more complex than the 360 so it might be very hard to emulate. Also Sony said they will be doing more remasters so i think a few would be from the ps3 era so if we see BC it would be in the far future.



alabtrosMyster on 15 August 2015
fireburn95 said:
Ps1 and ps2 will come eventually, but only when they really need it. I also feel ps3 bc will come, but not until like 2018/2019 because they want to push new games.

On xb1, for everyone playing a 360 game, they could be playing a brand newly bought x1 game. However xbox needs to push hardware sales over software if they want to prove to Microsoft that they should not be spun off.

Rockstar aren't looking at ps2 games sales and giving much thought. It's filed under 'other software sale's', they're concerned about proving to their investors the current lineup of games are selling, and sony are essentially making more money this way.


I would not expect ps3 bc on the ps4, nor the ps4 or 7, its architecture is way too exotic (mind you they have all the info, so there may be some shortcuts, but my guess is an emulator would be too slow).  ps1 and 2 are low hanging fruits, they should at least enable classics pan downloads like on ps3, if they don't want or can't  enable disc to run due to some licensing agreements with publishers of older titles... preferably let us run the old games in 1080p whenever possible like on pc!

 



Zappykins on 16 August 2015
sc94597 said:

Someone should actually read the thread. PS2

Opps, I  made that mistake too.

Sure, any console today could emulate the PS2 - but why bother?

If they did that on the PS4 it makes the PS3 look like even a bigger failure as ‘we are going to forget about that console and pretend it didn’t happen.’

I was really surprised and disappointed at launch both the PS4 and Xbox One didn’t included backwards compatibility – at least for the arcade/digital/smaller games.  I could see God of War 4 or Halo 3 not being because they are so specialized.  But PacMan and Flower?  No reason they weren’t BC.



 

Really not sure I see any point of Consol over PC's since Kinect, Wii and other alternative ways to play have been abandoned. 

Top 50 'most fun' game list coming soon!

 

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Serious_frusting on 16 August 2015

This is a joke thread yh?



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Mr.Playstation on 16 August 2015

If your so eager to play PS2 games just buy one off Ebay for $20. I would rather have Sony focusing on other stuff than PS2 BC. It wouldn't even be a cool feature to have.



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Michelasso on 16 August 2015
Zappykins said:

I was really surprised and disappointed at launch both the PS4 and Xbox One didn’t included backwards compatibility – at least for the arcade/digital/smaller games.  I could see God of War 4 or Halo 3 not being because they are so specialized.  But PacMan and Flower?  No reason they weren’t BC.


Why, you think Flower is an easy game to emulate? Think it again. Flower is rendering (hundreds of?) thousands of grass blades. Individually.

Still it wouldn't matter. The PS4 CPU isn't capable enough to have a PS3 emulator running "Thomas was alone" efficiently. Because what really needs to get emulated first is the Cell CPU. Which has 300GFLOPS with a quite peculiar architecture. Sure an emulator is technically possible, but its performances would be drammatically low. Whatever it would be running, even the XMB.

The X360 emulator instead is a much easier feat. The X360 has a tri-core CPU, with each core running 2 threads. There. Apparently MS made the emulator with each XBone core running (emulating) an X360 thread. It's still a great achievement from MS that such weak CPU can manage to run the emulation without major performance hits, even though being a RISC CPU it's easier to emulate. Then I suppose MS actually rewrote for the Xbone CPU the X360 API/libraries. So each time a shared library gets called it is executes natively and not emulated. The problems will arise anytime there is an hack in the SW (bypassing the API). Some games may not fully run. And with the PS3 the hacks are many, which would make even an emulator on PC running with bad perfomances drops.



fireburn95 on 16 August 2015
alabtrosMyster said:
fireburn95 said:
Ps1 and ps2 will come eventually, but only when they really need it. I also feel ps3 bc will come, but not until like 2018/2019 because they want to push new games.

On xb1, for everyone playing a 360 game, they could be playing a brand newly bought x1 game. However xbox needs to push hardware sales over software if they want to prove to Microsoft that they should not be spun off.

Rockstar aren't looking at ps2 games sales and giving much thought. It's filed under 'other software sale's', they're concerned about proving to their investors the current lineup of games are selling, and sony are essentially making more money this way.


I would not expect ps3 bc on the ps4, nor the ps4 or 7, its architecture is way too exotic (mind you they have all the info, so there may be some shortcuts, but my guess is an emulator would be too slow).  ps1 and 2 are low hanging fruits, they should at least enable classics pan downloads like on ps3, if they don't want or can't  enable disc to run due to some licensing agreements with publishers of older titles... preferably let us run the old games in 1080p whenever possible like on pc!

 


I think that 'ps3 architecture is too complicated' excuse is bull. Well, it is, but surely the company that created it knows it best, and could emulate it on hardware which they quoted as being '10x more powerful than ps3' (Mark Cerny I think)

Oh yeah I was talking about downloads rather than disc, didn't make that clear. I don't think Sony will go through that trouble when they can make far more money by making it playable without a cheap or already-bought disc.

I think ps3 emulation will come though, eventually. PS Now could always change into another cloud-based service at a moments notice designed to support PS5 while continuing to offer old games to PC and TV folk. But with sony making so much money on ps4, and ps4 games all-while impressing publishers and other third-party companies, they are sticking to that and not risking BC/emulation taking away from revenue.



SvennoJ on 16 August 2015
fireburn95 said:


I think that 'ps3 architecture is too complicated' excuse is bull. Well, it is, but surely the company that created it knows it best, and could emulate it on hardware which they quoted as being '10x more powerful than ps3' (Mark Cerny I think)

Oh yeah I was talking about downloads rather than disc, didn't make that clear. I don't think Sony will go through that trouble when they can make far more money by making it playable without a cheap or already-bought disc.

I think ps3 emulation will come though, eventually. PS Now could always change into another cloud-based service at a moments notice designed to support PS5 while continuing to offer old games to PC and TV folk. But with sony making so much money on ps4, and ps4 games all-while impressing publishers and other third-party companies, they are sticking to that and not risking BC/emulation taking away from revenue.

Being 10x more powerful doesn't mean it can emulate the brute force of the single minded cell spe's

You can do more with an 8 core general purpsose cpu, yet you can't emulate the raw 3.2 ghz speed of the cell, no matter how many 1.6ghz cores you have. The Cell spe cores are single threaded, there's nothing to split up. You can alter the code and split it up yourself or use more efficient code instead of using the limited instruction set of the Cell. However an emulator can't do that. It can't know where to split the instruction sets and run them parallel on different cores.

It's not impossible. Building a compiler that converts the code running on the cell to something that can run on one or more slower processors is a possibility. One that will require a lot of time and resources. Sony certainly didn't think that was worth the trouble since they're using actual ps3 hardware for ps now. It's actually 8 ps3s shrunk onto one board. It would be cool to have one of those super ps3s at home :) Lan party in a box.



sc94597 on 16 August 2015
SvennoJ said:
fireburn95 said:
 


I think that 'ps3 architecture is too complicated' excuse is bull. Well, it is, but surely the company that created it knows it best, and could emulate it on hardware which they quoted as being '10x more powerful than ps3' (Mark Cerny I think)

Oh yeah I was talking about downloads rather than disc, didn't make that clear. I don't think Sony will go through that trouble when they can make far more money by making it playable without a cheap or already-bought disc.

I think ps3 emulation will come though, eventually. PS Now could always change into another cloud-based service at a moments notice designed to support PS5 while continuing to offer old games to PC and TV folk. But with sony making so much money on ps4, and ps4 games all-while impressing publishers and other third-party companies, they are sticking to that and not risking BC/emulation taking away from revenue.

Being 10x more powerful doesn't mean it can emulate the brute force of the single minded cell spe's

You can do more with an 8 core general purpsose cpu, yet you can't emulate the raw 3.2 ghz speed of the cell, no matter how many 1.6ghz cores you have. The Cell spe cores are single threaded, there's nothing to split up. You can alter the code and split it up yourself or use more efficient code instead of using the limited instruction set of the Cell. However an emulator can't do that. It can't know where to split the instruction sets and run them parallel on different cores.

It's not impossible. Building a compiler that converts the code running on the cell to something that can run on one or more slower processors is a possibility. One that will require a lot of time and resources. Sony certainly didn't think that was worth the trouble since they're using actual ps3 hardware for ps now. It's actually 8 ps3s shrunk onto one board. It would be cool to have one of those super ps3s at home :) Lan party in a box.

While I don't think a PS3 emulator is very likely on PS4, doesn't the three cores in Xenon present the same problem? Actually the architecture of both CPU's isn't that different (generally) from what I gather.