By using this site, you agree to our Privacy Policy and our Terms of Use. Close

Forums - Nintendo Discussion - Xenoblade Chronicles X "Story Trailer"

curl-6 on 22 April 2015
Tachikoma said:
curl-6 said:

I think what he's worried about it that it will be a highlight reel the game's technical flaws, rather than an assessment based on the hardware it's running on which addresses both strengths and weaknesses. 

If my intent was purely to bash the game, I wouldn't have preordered a retail disk and a digital code, while having two copies means I can do side by side comparisons for texture pop and load times, the actual reason is so we can both play at the same time.

I will be covering the technical aspects such as framerate, in depth geometry and lighting differences between early versions and retail and such like that, so by it's very nature it's geared towards being an informative piece based on the technology, not based on the quality of the gameplay / how fun it is, that can be left to game reviews.

The ratio between how much stuff is flawed and how much stuff is positive technical wizardry is dependant upon the game itself delivering that tech, not on me deciding if it's good or not.

I wasn't accusing you of planning a roast, I was just trying to explain what I interpreted Goodnightmoon's concerns to be.

I'm actually quite interested to see the difference the installs make and whether the game employs AA, given that several recent first party efforts have foregone it altogether.



Around the Network
Tachikoma on 22 April 2015
Nuvendil said:

Sounds good.  That's actually the way it should be done because counting polygons and texture pixels really isn't helpful.  All games are downgraded along the way from a letter-of-the-definition perspective; that's a major part of optimization.  The question should be how effectively the optimizations preserve the visual integrity of the experience.  If they reduced one texture set by 75% but you never see it clear enough to notice, then it was not nearly as bad as reducing a texture by 50% that is constantly in your face and noticeable.  To make a rather basic comparison. 

Also, one design choice I don't agree with right off is the resistance to any kind of prerendering of cutscenes.  I don't mean ridiculous high-detail models, but perhaps the high-poly bases for the in game models with higher textures, just to give the scenes a cleaner look.  As it stands, you go into cutsenes and often have your face pressed up against textures that were clearly never meant to be seen at such close distances. 

Granted its an odd design choice, I would have done higher quality texture interiors of the dolls and mapped it to switch to these during closeups or internal views, result would have been a clearner presentation at minimal cost, instead it seems they let the doll use its default texture lod, looks fine from a set distance or further but close up to the pilot, as is the case in many cutscenes, really should have been given the additional attention.



curl-6 on 22 April 2015
Nuvendil said:

Also, one design choice I don't agree with right off is the resistance to any kind of prerendering of cutscenes.  I don't mean ridiculous high-detail models, but perhaps the high-poly bases for the in game models with higher textures, just to give the scenes a cleaner look.  As it stands, you go into cutsenes and often have your face pressed up against textures that were clearly never meant to be seen at such close distances, the dolls being the biggest offender.  

The first game had this same issue, where closeups on models built for medium-range viewing during cutscenes produced some unsightly results. Separate "cutscene" models of higher fidelity could have gone a long way in both games.



Frogger on 22 April 2015

Isn't it about time we make a spoiler-free thread. It will be nice to have a place to talk about XCX for people who are refraining from anymore story based spoilers.



Volterra_90 on 22 April 2015

Oh, today's Xenoblade day for me. I've just finished Xenoblade Chronicles and now we have a story trailer with XCX. Awesome! Now it's time to localize it, Nintendo, and soon.

By the way, is it a Telethia at 1:25? I thought the games would not be related in any way.



Around the Network
Torillian on 22 April 2015

thread title edited to take out the self-flagellation at the end.



...

Nuvendil on 22 April 2015
Tachikoma said:
Nuvendil said:

Sounds good.  That's actually the way it should be done because counting polygons and texture pixels really isn't helpful.  All games are downgraded along the way from a letter-of-the-definition perspective; that's a major part of optimization.  The question should be how effectively the optimizations preserve the visual integrity of the experience.  If they reduced one texture set by 75% but you never see it clear enough to notice, then it was not nearly as bad as reducing a texture by 50% that is constantly in your face and noticeable.  To make a rather basic comparison. 

Also, one design choice I don't agree with right off is the resistance to any kind of prerendering of cutscenes.  I don't mean ridiculous high-detail models, but perhaps the high-poly bases for the in game models with higher textures, just to give the scenes a cleaner look.  As it stands, you go into cutsenes and often have your face pressed up against textures that were clearly never meant to be seen at such close distances. 

Granted its an odd design choice, I would have done higher quality texture interiors of the dolls and mapped it to switch to these during closeups or internal views, result would have been a clearner presentation at minimal cost, instead it seems they let the doll use its default texture lod, looks fine from a set distance or further but close up to the pilot, as is the case in many cutscenes, really should have been given the additional attention.

The stranger fact is that in cockpit mode in combat, the textures dont' *seem* as bad.  So I don't know what it is, maybe really bad popin issues that occur when switching camera?  I kinda lean towards the popin theory given that the quality seems inconsistent (though never "nice") from video to video and even scene to scene.  I mean, textures getting snagged is clearly an issue at times, we've seen it with several instances where a character enters a room or the camera snaps suddenly to a crowded area. 

This is kinda my biggest gripe with the original Xenoblade too.  That game would have benefited hugely from there being sharper models and textures in cutsenes.  Still within the art style and all that, but much cleaner.  I am assuming it's a cost and resources issue on the development side, but I do hope it's not a permanent aspect of the series.  Although future platforms may be strong enough to where it won't matter in subsequent entries. 

On the whole, when looking at the game purely from the gameplay perspective, I think the whole of the game still looks quite close to the old footage  and the optimizations were mostly well done from an aesthetical viewpoint.  It's when the camera is moved in that things start to get a bit murkier.  We'll see more clearly next week. 



sc94597 on 22 April 2015

I found a translated trailer. Don't know if it is accurate though. 



Nuvendil on 22 April 2015

Actually, I'm definitely going with the cockpit texture issues being the result of pop-in and loading issues. Go to 0:28 in the trailer and look at the textures there compared to other instances such as the sequence around 2:17. The textures are a good bit cleaner, though nothing stellar. Assuming my theory is correct, will be interesting to see if the installs help significantly with this issue and what differences there are between storing on the on-board flash memory and storing them on an external hard drive.



Tachikoma on 22 April 2015
Nuvendil said:
Actually, I'm definitely going with the cockpit texture issues being the result of pop-in. Go to 0:28 in the trailer and look at the textures there compared to other instances suck as the sequence around 2:17. The textures are a good bit cleaner, though nothing stellar. Assuming my theory is correct, will be interesting to see if the installs help significantly with this issue and what differences there are between storing on the on-board flash memory and storing them on an external hard drive.

Too consistent, It looks more like they switched to a lower LOD model for scenes featuring multiple dolls on screen at once, as when the textures are higher res, the geometry is also more complex for the model too, in this isntance only the one doll is visible.

So it's more likely that they are intentionally using lower quality models/textures in those instances.

Will cover that properly once I have the game here.