Forums - Nintendo Discussion - Rock Band 4 not coming to Wii U because "the audience is not there"

MikeRox said:
Samus Aran said:

How can you be the best music game developer if you don't even make your own god damn music?

Games like these are basically one gigantic quick time event.


I see you're not familiar with what is actually involved in performing music.

Next you'll be complaining that racing games like Mario Kart are basically just going around in circles...

Neither are you if you think that's what you're doing while playing Rock Band.



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Materia-Blade said:
 

Lt's see what's wrong with your post.

The wii u isn't "dodgy" to program and never really had support at the same time ps4 and x1 were getting more support before even releasing. Those are facts.

"Sony lost exclusivity on Final Fantasy and Metal Gear Solid series; this is easily among the biggest software news in two decades."

How is that big software news? I'ts just two games going multi.

"Number two; what incentive did 3rd parties have to develop for and publish on the Wii U?"

The same incentive they have to develop and publish for ps4 and x1.

"The Wii crashed completely while the PS3 and 360 kept on going"

It took the wii what? 5 years to start selling low? that's not crashing. And ps360 kept going, but they never soared in the first place.

"the combined installed base of the PS3/360 and a decimated Wii concept made it a no-brainer for most and 3rd party games kept on selling well on these platforms"

For wii too. But games can't sell if they don't exist. Wii had plenty of third party releases up to 2010. It's hard to sell third party games after that when third party games aren't releasing.

"it is due to Nintendo being forced early into the 8th gen when the Wii crashed and a succession of really poor choices"

Again, wii didn't crash. You think 6 YEARS after the predecessor is being forced early into the next gen? that's one year later than previous nintendo consoles. The gamepad is no mistake. I would particularly make something different but how can you say a controller with extra features is a mistake? It's no different than a controller with new buttons: everything you already are used to is still there and the new stuff is optional.

What I see is a console that had no reason to be ignored by third parties but is being ignored anyway. And not only that, the third parties also insulted the console's fanbase several time and people like you agree with them. A company blaming the consumer and getting away with it is an absurd that only happens on the gaming industry.


What exactly are you doing while reading my posts? You're even answering statements I never made.

1: I never said the Wii U was dodgy to develop for; I said that "And did you miss the part where the PS3 lost a bunch of support due to slow start, being a year after the 360 and being dodgy to program for?" How on earth did you manage to turn that into "The Wii U is dodgy to develop for"?

2: Yes, the PS4 and X1 got more support from the beginning because their predecessors showed that PS and Xbox could sell 3rd party software really well, even far into their lifecycle while the Wii was completely irrelevant at this point (and long before that, even). This is a huge part of my point and you managed to miss it twice now; the Wii name had faded into obscurity and the PS3 and 360 kept on going, regardless of the reason behind the Wii's fading away, the fact still remains that it had actually faded away. Can I make that more clear? That is why the PS4 and X1 got games from the start; developers knew that they would move software, the PS4 already has 28 million sellers after only 16-17 months on the market, the One has 18 million sellers after the same amount of time and the Wii U has 9 million sellers after 28 months on the market, why do you think the PS4 and X1 got good support from the start again? I don't feel like explaining this very logical assumption on the developers' part one more time.

3: "It's just two games going multi." It was one of the defining franchises on the PS consoles and the most successful JRPG (and RPG in general) series in history with 110 million + sold, with the vast majority of that being on PS consoles and PS exclusive, that's like calling Mario Kart unimportant and MK has actually sold less than this. That's utterly ridiculous to write.

4: No, no one had the same incentive to develop/publish for the Wii U as they did on the PS4 and X1, due to; Wii becoming a non-factor and not a shred of a natural generation bridge to walk across, clinging to another chipset die and coming off of a market leader that showed a poor ability to move traditional 3rd party games in any number. It is not the same in the slightest and this is a well known fact to every single user on this forum, which includes you.

5: The Wii sold around 16.5 million in its first full CY on the market, followed by an immense 24 million the year after, 21 the year after that and 17 million in the fourth CY, and then stumbled down to 11 million in its fifth CY, this is not normal behavior for a market leader and the competition kept on growing for all of these five years, peaking in year 6 and 7 respectively (if I recall correctly), while the Wii peaked in its second CY. That is what I call a crash, especially compared to the competition. The fact that it sold quickly and sold a lot is easily trumphed by the fact that it disappeared so quickly compared to the others, and especially other market leaders and the fact that it did horribly at selling most traditional 3rd party games (which was, of course, ususally blamed on the developers themselves). I know people like to pretend that the Wii followed a completely normal sales curve for a market leader; it really, really did not.

6: PS3 and 360 didn't need to soar into 1st place; they sold mountains of 3rd party software while around 35-40% of the total software sales on the Wii was 1st party titles and practically every big multiplatform franchise and series did really poorly (Call of Duty is the very best example here) despite the advantage in installed base all along. It is a real no-brainer to see why the developers have opted the way they have all this time.

7: Even the 3rd party titles the Wii did get, sold horribly almost without exception, this is not developer incentive; this a huge red flag. Game development is not a charity and no one owes any console manufacturer anything for past deeds.

8: By the time the Wii U launched six years after the Wii, the Wii had simply vanished even from the memories of the industry and sold next to nothing, this is unheard of for a market leader. The PS2 sold over 30% of its lifetime sales after the PS3 released, for a quick comparison. And, of course they were forced, since when does market leader fade into obscurity while the competition keeps growing and then release their next console a year before the others? Again, this is not normal for a market leader; not even close.
One year later than previous Nintendo consoles, you mean the Gamecube and N64 that were all soundly beaten and nowhere near the top? Once more; the Wii was the market leader, it did not reflect this in its curious sales curve and developers took note of this very obvious and crystal clear phenomenon.

9: I have said all along that the Gamepad was a mistake; you disagree, that doesn't make you right and me wrong. If anything; the sales figures, despite huge releases and even advertising show that I am more likely to be correct in thinking that Gamepad has made the Wii U a bipolar product that largely misses two markets rather than appeal to them. How can I say that a controller with extra features is a mistake? That's really easy; the Gamepad is perceived as a pale knock-off of tablets, sporting poor resolution, unimpressive battery life and buttons and sticks on it and they went so far as to try to make TV remote functionality an actual sales point. Not to mention the fact that even Nintendo themselves have done a poor job at making proper use of the controller even after all this time and it still isn't available for purchase and you can't even have two playing on unit each at once, which is truly strange for a company that has made their fortune on local multiplayer and even used this as a sales angle in almost all their commercials all along.

10: The reason it is being ignored by 3rd parties have been listed above and I don't want to spend any more time repeating myself. Where did I agree with developers insulting Nintendo fans? When and where did they insult Nintendo fans to begin with? Please, do show me.

11: 3rd parties are not first and foremost blaming consumers; they like the consumers, they are blaming Nintendo for not making an effort to draw in developers of any kind or trying to offer a decent developer environment for over two decades and for building hardware tailor-made to sell Nintendo games first and foremost and for, twice in a row now, forcing developers to bifurcate their programming efforts if they want to include Nintendo in the multiplat development process. Pair this with sales of games that have been released and have sold incredibly poorly; there is no huge mystery here but one cannot see what one does not want to see.
And before you use ZombiU as an example of a success for a 3rd party developer on the Wii U; read about Ubi telling how it was "not even close to being profitable", even at the relatively high sales it achieved.

Take your time and read what people actually write and if you want to start your posts by pointing out how badly flawed mine is; make sure you have actual arguments to present rather than this. If you keep responding in the same fashion; I see no point in spending any more time on this at all.



tripenfall said:

No, due to backwards compatability the Wii U is the only current gen console where the instruments will cross straight over. New instruments won't be needed for anyone with either GH of RB from the Wii (which is a lot of people). That's going to be the biggest hurdle for people thinking of buying the game on XBone / PS4. That's why this game really should have seen a Wii U release....


Who knows how many of the Wii's Rock Band owners bought a Wii U?
Could be 2 million, could be 2 thousand.

Even if it's the highly unlikely 2 million, it will still cost them more to develop the game for the Wii U than for the x86 consoles Xbox One and PS4.
Also they have to transition from the Wi-Fi Connection to the e-shop. While the process in XBox Live and the PSN are probably the same as last gen, it has changed on Nintendos platforms (how much effort that is I don't know).
I'd guess the benefit of not needing to update the Instruments, as they should already be compatible, doesn't outweigh the risks.



Platforms: Wii U, New 3DS, PS4, PC

currently playing: 
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 -Pokemon X
 -Fire Emblem Fates 

Zone: Europe (Germany)

shikamaru317 said:

Considering the fact that Just Dance games are only selling 500k on Wii U, I can see why they might want to skip Wii U. It's a pretty costly port since Wii U doesn't share an x86 architecture with XB1 and PS4, so the sales might not justify the porting costs in their eyes. Plus the rumors suggest that Rock Band 4 is aiming for more realistic graphics than the previous games, so they probably don't want a Wii U version holding them back graphically.

Hopefully for Wii U owners' sakes Activision will decide to put their new Guitar Hero on Wii U, Activision is one of the few western 3rd party publishers still supporting Wii U in some capacity.

This "only" 500k (and rising each year) is more than the ps4/x1 versions are doing.



mysteryman said:
MikeRox said:

What I meant was, you already have access to Rock Band on a Wii U, with all your instruments. It's definitely a concern for Harmonix, hence they'll let you bring your instruments across. However my point was, if you have a PS4 or an Xbox 1, you have no way at all of playing Rock Band because there is no backwards compatibility. Whereas, if you have the games on Wii, they still work in your Wii U.

The whole point of the franchise is to keep pumping out new iterations for more money.

Do you beleive the Wii Rock Band titles are currently selling better than a new Wii U title would?


Not at all. However I do think that they will shift more units on PS4 and XB1 than on Wii U, hence for a small studio like Harmonix that makes more sense. Just like how Guitar Hero originally started as a PS2 exclusive.



RIP Dad 25/11/51 - 13/12/13. You will be missed but never forgotten.

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Samus Aran said:
MikeRox said:


I see you're not familiar with what is actually involved in performing music.

Next you'll be complaining that racing games like Mario Kart are basically just going around in circles...

Neither are you if you think that's what you're doing while playing Rock Band.


I'm actually a semi professional musician, however I play Trombone rather than any instruments used in Rock music. However, you follow a conductor (giving your beat/time) and you follow set patterns on a sheet of music. What's that if it's not practically a QTE?



RIP Dad 25/11/51 - 13/12/13. You will be missed but never forgotten.

Materia-Blade said:

This "only" 500k (and rising each year) is more than ps4/x1 are doing.

True, but historically Rock Band was more popular on 360 and PS3 than Wii, whereas Just Dance was more popular on Wii than on 360 and PS3. Look at it this way:

Just Dance 3 Wii- 10m
Just Dance 2015 Wii U- 500k

Rock Band 2 Wii- 1m
Rock Band 4 Wii U- ???

If you were too apply the same ratio for a sales drop as Just Dance there'd only be 50k sales for Rock Band 4 on Wii U! Personally I think it'd be closer to 300-400k on Wii U, but still the port would be fairly expensive since Wii U isn't x86 like XB1 and PS4, and since Harmonix is self publishing and they aren't a very big publisher, I doubt they want to take a big financial risk on Wii U.



MikeRox said:
Samus Aran said:

Neither are you if you think that's what you're doing while playing Rock Band.


I'm actually a semi professional musician, however I play Trombone rather than any instruments used in Rock music. However, you follow a conductor (giving your beat/time) and you follow set patterns on a sheet of music. What's that if it's not practically a QTE?

My bad, I thought you were saying playing RB is performing music.

When playing an instrument you determine the rhytm, in RB the game determines it for you. The pressing of buttons in these games have nothing to do with rhytm.

In games I see QTE as scripted events triggered by unrelated button presses.

I've played GH once and didn't like it, I have no reason to try RB as it looks the exact same to me. I hope these two franchises were made by the same company or else someone forgot to sue.



Skullwaker said:
But I thought the Wii U was a casual console.


For me I see the Wii U as a toy actually, thats why I never cared on buying on. 



Mummelmann said:


What exactly are you doing while reading my posts? You're even answering statements I never made.

1: I never said the Wii U was dodgy to develop for; I said that "And did you miss the part where the PS3 lost a bunch of support due to slow start, being a year after the 360 and being dodgy to program for?" How on earth did you manage to turn that into "The Wii U is dodgy to develop for"?

2: Yes, the PS4 and X1 got more support from the beginning because their predecessors showed that PS and Xbox could sell 3rd party software really well, even far into their lifecycle while the Wii was completely irrelevant at this point (and long before that, even). This is a huge part of my point and you managed to miss it twice now; the Wii name had faded into obscurity and the PS3 and 360 kept on going, regardless of the reason behind the Wii's fading away, the fact still remains that it had actually faded away. Can I make that more clear? That is why the PS4 and X1 got games from the start; developers knew that they would move software, the PS4 already has 28 million sellers after only 16-17 months on the market, the One has 18 million sellers after the same amount of time and the Wii U has 9 million sellers after 28 months on the market, why do you think the PS4 and X1 got good support from the start again? I don't feel like explaining this very logical assumption on the developers' part one more time.

3: "It's just two games going multi." It was one of the defining franchises on the PS consoles and the most successful JRPG (and RPG in general) series in history with 110 million + sold, with the vast majority of that being on PS consoles and PS exclusive, that's like calling Mario Kart unimportant and MK has actually sold less than this. That's utterly ridiculous to write.

4: No, no one had the same incentive to develop/publish for the Wii U as they did on the PS4 and X1, due to; Wii becoming a non-factor and not a shred of a natural generation bridge to walk across, clinging to another chipset die and coming off of a market leader that showed a poor ability to move traditional 3rd party games in any number. It is not the same in the slightest and this is a well known fact to every single user on this forum, which includes you.

5: The Wii sold around 16.5 million in its first full CY on the market, followed by an immense 24 million the year after, 21 the year after that and 17 million in the fourth CY, and then stumbled down to 11 million in its fifth CY, this is not normal behavior for a market leader and the competition kept on growing for all of these five years, peaking in year 6 and 7 respectively (if I recall correctly), while the Wii peaked in its second CY. That is what I call a crash, especially compared to the competition. The fact that it sold quickly and sold a lot is easily trumphed by the fact that it disappeared so quickly compared to the others, and especially other market leaders and the fact that it did horribly at selling most traditional 3rd party games (which was, of course, ususally blamed on the developers themselves). I know people like to pretend that the Wii followed a completely normal sales curve for a market leader; it really, really did not.

6: PS3 and 360 didn't need to soar into 1st place; they sold mountains of 3rd party software while around 35-40% of the total software sales on the Wii was 1st party titles and practically every big multiplatform franchise and series did really poorly (Call of Duty is the very best example here) despite the advantage in installed base all along. It is a real no-brainer to see why the developers have opted the way they have all this time.

7: Even the 3rd party titles the Wii did get, sold horribly almost without exception, this is not developer incentive; this a huge red flag. Game development is not a charity and no one owes any console manufacturer anything for past deeds.

8: By the time the Wii U launched six years after the Wii, the Wii had simply vanished even from the memories of the industry and sold next to nothing, this is unheard of for a market leader. The PS2 sold over 30% of its lifetime sales after the PS3 released, for a quick comparison. And, of course they were forced, since when does market leader fade into obscurity while the competition keeps growing and then release their next console a year before the others? Again, this is not normal for a market leader; not even close.
One year later than previous Nintendo consoles, you mean the Gamecube and N64 that were all soundly beaten and nowhere near the top? Once more; the Wii was the market leader, it did not reflect this in its curious sales curve and developers took note of this very obvious and crystal clear phenomenon.

9: I have said all along that the Gamepad was a mistake; you disagree, that doesn't make you right and me wrong. If anything; the sales figures, despite huge releases and even advertising show that I am more likely to be correct in thinking that Gamepad has made the Wii U a bipolar product that largely misses two markets rather than appeal to them. How can I say that a controller with extra features is a mistake? That's really easy; the Gamepad is perceived as a pale knock-off of tablets, sporting poor resolution, unimpressive battery life and buttons and sticks on it and they went so far as to try to make TV remote functionality an actual sales point. Not to mention the fact that even Nintendo themselves have done a poor job at making proper use of the controller even after all this time and it still isn't available for purchase and you can't even have two playing on unit each at once, which is truly strange for a company that has made their fortune on local multiplayer and even used this as a sales angle in almost all their commercials all along.

10: The reason it is being ignored by 3rd parties have been listed above and I don't want to spend any more time repeating myself. Where did I agree with developers insulting Nintendo fans? When and where did they insult Nintendo fans to begin with? Please, do show me.

11: 3rd parties are not first and foremost blaming consumers; they like the consumers, they are blaming Nintendo for not making an effort to draw in developers of any kind or trying to offer a decent developer environment for over two decades and for building hardware tailor-made to sell Nintendo games first and foremost and for, twice in a row now, forcing developers to bifurcate their programming efforts if they want to include Nintendo in the multiplat development process. Pair this with sales of games that have been released and have sold incredibly poorly; there is no huge mystery here but one cannot see what one does not want to see.
And before you use ZombiU as an example of a success for a 3rd party developer on the Wii U; read about Ubi telling how it was "not even close to being profitable", even at the relatively high sales it achieved.

Take your time and read what people actually write and if you want to start your posts by pointing out how badly flawed mine is; make sure you have actual arguments to present rather than this. If you keep responding in the same fashion; I see no point in spending any more time on this at all.

1. Mentioning ps3 as dodgy to developed seemed like calling wii u the same, since you were comparing the two.

2. "Completely irrelevant", "falling into obscurity". Look, Wii starded faster than any console and only slowed down AFTER games stopped coming. ps360 started slow and got better later. They only kept relevante because the continued being supported by third parties. There is no magic there. You are just trying to make wii look bad.

3. "that's like calling Mario Kart unimportant" It's just two third party games going multiplatform. That by itself doesn't affect anyone in anegative way and I simply can't consider it as big news. It's not like a real exclusive franchise, like Mario kart, going multiplatform.

4. "coming off of a market leader that showed a poor ability to move traditional 3rd party games in any number" Please show me those numbers, I'm rather curious now. Why do you keep saying wii didn't sell third party software when it clearly sold a lot? Wii has many 3rd party games from many genres selling a lot. Many ps2 ports sold from 500k to 2m+ and non ps2 titles did the same.

5. It sold more than the competition and on par/better with previous market leaders except ps2, that's it. Again, it declined after support stopped, no mystery here. "and the fact that it did horribly at selling most traditional 3rd party games" Yet again, only if you think 500k-2m+ = selling horribly.

6. Again, show me those "sold poorly" numbers. You mentioned cod, but that's one of the multiplatforms that did the best. It did sell more than the ps3 versions untill the important MW 3 skipped it and sales declined. Still, the few multiplatforms that released sold from well to great. non multiplatforms also had great perforance.

7. No need to repeat myself when you are simply repeating that 3rd party software sold horribly when the opposite happened.

8. You are severely exaggerating wii's decline. and let me remind you that ps2 and ps were also exceptions as market leaders. previous consoles didn't sell as much after the generation ended and in ps2's case, it was mostly due to emergent markets. And of course, they still got notable releases 1 or two years after being replaced, wii did not. No mistery.

9. Already explained that the gamepad by itself is no mistake. It's a controller with a touchscreen.

10. The reason why it's being ignored is lack of professionalismfrom developers, unfortunately.

11. Third parties insult wii u owners everytime they say BS like "the market for our games isn't on wii u". If zombi U wasn't profitable, that's because of budget problems. The sales were a success for a new IP as a launch title.

you mostly said that wii didn't sell 3rd party software but vgchartz data says otherwise. there's not much to say after that. You clearly won't change your mind, making it meaningless to keep discussing.