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Forums - Gaming - Sony, MS and Nintendo online stores should be operated like a Bank

aLkaLiNE on 09 February 2015
the_real_dsister44 said:
aLkaLiNE said:


Explain how it would make it any easier with pircay? Has the PS4 or 1 been cracked yet? Do you see people playing burnt discs or somehow stealing digital content? 

There's plenty of mutual benefit.  This could essentially give DRM back to the Publisher. For instance if you were to buy a digital game, it's tied to your account. Well if you wanted to trade it in for a physical copy, that too could be tied to your account so that it wouldn't work on other consoles that weren't activated using your credentials, but still save the hassle of having to be online to play.

 

I don't think he meant a bank in the traditional sense either, it'd be more of a video game bank that holds copies of games that you'd be able to access for content you've already purchased.  I do think that a system like this could be feasible 

Ok, if you were to print indie games on discs. They would either need to have factories mass producing the discs. Which would thrust an unfair cost on the indie developer/publishe, or have a way for the console manufacturer to print the disc right there in store. 

Now the first one isn't viable  economicall or due to time constraints. Oh, you want a copy of Shadow Complex on disc? Yeah, we stopped printing those three years ago. This also opens indie devs up the the fun of used game sales which they could have been hoping to avoid. Not to mention their are large costs associated with maintaining an inventory 

Which leaves you with the second solution. Having the console makers revoke your license and print you out a disc. It wouldn't take long before this process is hacked and the games are easily creatable by malicious users. Not to mention this would kind of get rid of some of the point of why OP wanted this. If we take this route you won't get a custom boxart or disc. It would probably be a box like you get at gamestop with a black and white picture on the cover. 

And your idea for drm while it sounds good would run into problems pretty quickly. Is it tied to the console or the account? Is their a console limit? How are they going to police that? Are they going to do what Sony did with account sharing before they nixed that idea? Where if you had a full game only one console could play the game in a 24 hour period? Or are we going to implment always online drm just to make sure that the right account is using it 

Their are already systems like this in place. They don't work all that well. Hasbro and Wizards of the Coast have been doing this with MtGO for years. If you get a full set of a release you can pay a small fee to get the paper version while removing them from your collection. The problem is they will only do it for the sets currently in print and the price has been rising exponentially for the past few years to make up for the fact that it is cheaper to buy a full set online than it is on paper. 

Edit 2: and as Super said above. How are we going to distribute these discs. Sony's stores have collapsed in the past year. Ninty has a couple(one?). Microsoft has the largest amount of stores, but even then their retail presence is pretty paltry compared to say stores like Gamestop. Which if this process were to be adopted would probably be the biggest name in the industry 

Hmm I should've clarified a bit. I looked past the part in the OP where he mentioned indie titles.  When he said digital, I was thinking the big budget games that had physical releases but were also available digital.  Indie games that weren't releasing on disc anyway should stay where they are.  Basically, replace the money in a bank with games.  Each game has a unique ID or barcode tied to it right? Well say that you or I walk in and say hey, I have an account with you guys and would like to spend an extra $10 to pick up this game I've already purchased, but in physical format.  The 'teller' or whatever we'd call them would then go grab a copy from the back, scan the barcode and that game would now be linked to your account.  You wouldn't be able to resale.  The games are tied to the account, not the console because IMO that just does not make any sense otherwise; what would that mean for your game collection if the console bricked? It'd pretty much HAVE to be based around your account.  

As for piracy, it's not a concern currently and we have no evidence at the moment to think that Sony/MS/Nintendo consoles are being cracked anytime soon so that's a very hypothetical caveat (even though this whole situation is hypothetical).  Either way, I think that they're doing all they can already to prevent piracy and I just don't see someone figuring out how to play burnt games or pirated content from the store anytime soon.

 

So again, this system could work if

- The games were already planned on release digitally and physically

- They were tied to your account, not your console

- The disc worked on your account, nothing else

- Buying the second copy through the bank resulted in DRM control that prohibits resale unless you sell your entire account.

- Piracy were not an issue (which as of righting isn't)

 

DRM only on digital titles converted to physical.  If you walked into a Best Buy or Wal Mart, you have full control over resale or whatever; It's specifically these bank titles that enforce the DRM.  Nothing has to be printed, the barcode is scanned at the bank and it is then tied to your account. Perhaps make Digital titles $45? Then an additional fee for the physical copy. Saves money up front but restricts what you can do with it.

 

There are flaws in the way I have it set up and looking through it some changes need to be made but I do think that a system similar to what's proposed is possible and could be successful.  I particularily don't like the idea of having the physical copy being restricted to your account but I don't plan on spending too much critical thinking time on this, we're on a forum after all! 



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Ruler on 09 February 2015
super6646 said:

Sony stores don't exist in Canada anymore (they all closed on Sunday) and don't in the US either, leaving the few left only in Europe. And there where never ANY Nintendo stores in Canada (or anywhere for that matter) either. So that just leaves the Microsoft Store for me, so I'll just shove out the Nintendo and Sony out of the picture. Though yes I actually would support the idea.


I meant online stores like playstation store, the games should be sent to your home like netflix does, they still sent dvds to people despite making most money with their virtual service. Of course with the exception that you can keep the physical disc forever in my idea



aLkaLiNE on 09 February 2015

the_real_dsister44 said:

Edit 2: and as Super said above. How are we going to distribute these discs. Sony's stores have collapsed in the past year. Ninty has a couple(one?). Microsoft has the largest amount of stores, but even then their retail presence is pretty paltry compared to say stores like Gamestop. Which if this process were to be adopted would probably be the biggest name in the industry 

 

Sorry, forgot to cover this too. 

There would be stores implemented in major metropolitan areas setup for this kind of service assuming this is what the people wanted.  Honestly this is the least of my concerns when it comes to the whole concept anyway.  Establishing these banks isn't the tricky part, it's how they'll operate.  Let's assume for the sake of arguement that each of the big three would be able to open up stores wherever was necessary.



Ruler on 09 February 2015
the_real_dsister44 said:
Nah, it is a bad idea. There is no benefit to them. Just more costs. Licensing would be a pain, and it would make for easier piracy. Also banks make money by investing your money. So it would just be a huge cost without any benefit for at all for them


First of all how is it easier for piracy? these days most piracy comes from digital downloads, in fact its easier to pirate digital games than cd based games. CD games have to be modified and youre forced to download and keep the physical disc which is a digital image file probably.

It wouldnt cost any money, sony and ms have just to adapt a rule which third party publishers would have to agree with. If someone allready buys the game digital all they do is taking away that licence and sent the physical game to the costumers home. The only money they will spent is shipping costs thats why you should pay a small fee for redeeming your digital game.

It would bring more money to the online stores, more people would simple buy the game directly in the online store meanng 100% profit for the online store and devolopers. 



Dr.Henry_Killinger on 09 February 2015

Unlikely, the market for this would be akin to those who prefer backwards compatibility, far smaller than that of those on say completely digital devices. With this in mind it would actually cost money to produce copies for "redeeming" simply to gain the "trust" of a minority of consumers. Nevermind, that physical games don't really assure ownership more than digital games even since last gen.

Best case scenario, they can offer this service but it would cost a lot more than the small fee if not MSRP or higher.



In this day and age, with the Internet, ignorance is a choice! And they're still choosing Ignorance! - Dr. Filthy Frank

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the_real_dsister44 on 09 February 2015
aLkaLiNE said:

1  The games are tied to the account, not the console because IMO that just does not make any sense otherwise; what would that mean for your game collection if the console bricked? It'd pretty much HAVE to be based around your account.  

2. As for piracy, it's not a concern currently and we have no evidence at the moment to think that Sony/MS/Nintendo consoles are being cracked anytime soon so that's a very hypothetical caveat (even though this whole situation is hypothetical).  Either way, I think that they're doing all they can already to prevent piracy and I just don't see someone figuring out how to play burnt games or pirated content from the store anytime soon.

 

3.- Buying the second copy through the bank resulted in DRM control that prohibits resale unless you sell your entire account.

Yeah, everything you have elaborated on wou;ld work a whole lot better. I just have a few things I'd like to say about these points. 

1. I'm not sure how it is now. But the last time I bought DLC off of LIve it was tied to the console. from the console I originally downloaded the DLC I could play the DLC any time I wanted regardless of the status of the connection to Live. But if I were to decide I wanted to play it on another console I would have to be signed into XBL under that account. Any games I bought would be reverted back to a demo or something ismilar. This could have changed since the last thing I purchased was the DLC for N&B after it was released. There were way to transfer the license to a new console, and if the console were to RRoD Microsoft would transfer the license for you.

I could see similar levels of DRM for something like we ar talking about. 

2. It isn't currently, but I doubt that would be the case if there was a way to easily burn games onto a disc.

3. All of the major console manufacturers frown upon a user selling an account and will actively ban you if they find out. 

aLkaLiNE said:

Sorry, forgot to cover this too. 

There would be stores implemented in major metropolitan areas setup for this kind of service assuming this is what the people wanted.  Honestly this is the least of my concerns when it comes to the whole concept anyway.  Establishing these banks isn't the tricky part, it's how they'll operate.  Let's assume for the sake of arguement that each of the big three would be able to open up stores wherever was necessary.

Realistically this is probably the biggest drawback. It would be hugely expensive to open these stores. With very little payoff in the end. I doubt the majority of people would really look to transfer games that they purchased digitially to discs. And if the Big 3 were to do this it would only be in the largest of towns. so Most of Europe would miss out, maybe everywhere that isn't Tokyo in Japan. NYC, and San fran might justify opening one. But let us say that the major stores on the east coast do. Even then you are missing out on the majority of the US. Luinil in Tulsa is never going to see one. 

 

I may come off sounding like an ass. That isn't my mission. I'm just a bored business student trying not to do accounting homework 



the_real_dsister44 on 09 February 2015
Ruler said:
the_real_dsister44 said:
Nah, it is a bad idea. There is no benefit to them. Just more costs. Licensing would be a pain, and it would make for easier piracy. Also banks make money by investing your money. So it would just be a huge cost without any benefit for at all for them


First of all how is it easier for piracy? these days most piracy comes from digital downloads, in fact its easier to pirate digital games than cd based games. CD games have to be modified and youre forced to download and keep the physical disc which is a digital image file probably.

It wouldnt cost any money, sony and ms have just to adapt a rule which third party publishers would have to agree with. If someone allready buys the game digital all they do is taking away that licence and sent the physical game to the costumers home. The only money they will spent is shipping costs thats why you should pay a small fee for redeeming your digital game.

It would bring more money to the online stores, more people would simple buy the game directly in the online store meanng 100% profit for the online store and devolopers. 


I answered most of these concerns in this post. If you have any more concerns or questions let me know. 



binary solo on 09 February 2015

I think a service where you can make your own "mix-tapes" of a few games on a single disc (obviously the smaller/indie games) would be cool.



“The fundamental cause of the trouble is that in the modern world the stupid are cocksure while the intelligent are full of doubt.” - Bertrand Russell

"When the power of love overcomes the love of power, the world will know peace."

Jimi Hendrix

 

Aeolus451 on 10 February 2015
Landguy said:
Digital only is just a matter of time.

So, no.


It's not a matter of time. If the majority of gamers don't want it, it won't happen. Look at quickly MS changed it's tune with it's anti-consumer policies. I don't think any of the big 3 wanna gamble with the success of a whole console gen on that again.



Aeolus451 on 10 February 2015

I just stick with physical copies for the most part. I'm not gonna provide any money for something I don't technically own. I don't even buy any digital movies or shows. It's a rip off.