Ka-pi96 said: RCTjunkie said: Equal rights and equal opprutunities for all. It doesn't mean equal results, though and that is okay. I know I am way oversimplifying the issue but this is how I would want the US set up. I completely agree

I also completely agree. Let's focus on equal opportunities for every citizen, not on targeting percentages for quotas, and let the results fall where they may. It's the only fair solution, and the best one for the success of the country - the most qualified applicants should be given preference in hiring, admissions, etc., instead of handing out freebies to members of minority groups, who can then coast along and underperform, dragging everyone else down with them.

McGilliguts said: Ka-pi96 said: RCTjunkie said: Equal rights and equal opprutunities for all. It doesn't mean equal results, though and that is okay. I know I am way oversimplifying the issue but this is how I would want the US set up. I completely agree I also completely agree. Let's focus on equal opportunities for every citizen, not on targeting percentages for quotas, and let the results fall where they may. It's the only fair solution, and the best one for the success of the country - the most qualified applicants should be given preference in hiring, admissions, etc., instead of handing out freebies to members of minority groups, who can then coast along and underperform, dragging everyone else down with them.

comrade obama just made a big step, free college is the best way to get equal opportunities

Eh, I don't really think it's a women's dominated society even in the West.

Look at the political sphere, like 80% of the politicians are men, and 90%+ of the ones who actually have the power to do anything are men.

Look at our economic system, 90% of the people in power of the biggest corporations are men.

If you look at our media, 90% of our movies/games/TV networks are helmed by men.

The halls of power are still dominated primarily by men.

Our sports obsessed culture is dominated by male sports.

If you're famous as a woman, it's 90% likely because of your sex appeal (as in what you bring to the table to appeal to a man).

Also even in the West most women are not hardcore feminists, that just a little fringe. Most women are not of the bra-burning, no armpit shaving type.

I'm a guy, but I'm not naive to those factors. Yes, women have more power today than in the past, but you'd really be pushing it by saying the West is a female dominated society. It really isn't. The most powerful woman in America is like Oprah (or was), and she's a TV personality. Imagine the most powerful man in America being Dr. Phil or something, lol.

I think yes, at least legally.

- Men don't have any reproductive rights whatsoever. Only responsibilities.
- Goddam draft (This is what men had to sign in times of war to get the 'right' to vote. Women were given the right to vote without any trade off).
- When divorced, the woman will take the children by default unless the man takes it to the court.
- In a domestic fight, even in which the man was the attacked, he will be taken into custody.
- Men's job and study opportunities don't matter when there is a gender quota to be kept, because even if a man that is better qualified to be accepted than a woman, the woman will get in just because she is a woman. In universities, this only happens in areas where men dominate, like engineering and sports. There's no effort to do the same for men in areas were women dominate, like psychology, sociology, etc.

But, most of all, in social perception:

- Men are always the perpetrators, not the victim.
- All men are possible rapers and pedophiles.
- It is acceptable for a woman to hit a man, even empowering, but a man can't hit a woman ever, not even to hit back.
- Violence against men is comedic relief (lets hit them in the balls, so damn funny).
- When a man is accused of rape, it becomes guilty until proven inncoent by the people. Even after proving that he is innocent, people will still condemn him: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ZuG-s7sJMI
- Masculinity is toxic. Boys that play police vs robbers or that draw pirates being killed by royal guards get their parents immediately called and an appointment to the psychologist.

By the way, the wage gap has been bullshit for a long time now:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=58arQIr882w
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1oqyrflOQFc
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G_sGn6PdmIo

More than anything, the proof that women are more 'powerful' in the western world is the subjects they fight against the loudest: Cat calling? Allleged misandry in video games? "Bossy"? These are 1st world problems for a gender as it gets. Yet, no support for men's reproductive rights, domestic violence against men (The woman that created the first women shelter tried to create the first men shelter and got death threats for it), etc.

P.D: Sorry for my messy english. It's not my native language.

The Fury said: Aeolus451 said: The Fury said: The US is still to elect a female President so until that time, no. Being the president isn't really all that powerful. The people who put them into office are the ones with power. Presidents are the perfect pantsy for the rest of the government.  I'm sure everyone can agree that money equates to power. There's plenty of rich women.  So let's check that one off the list. Actual position isn't the key, it's the fact that they can get elected. However they get there it is the significance of it because they were chosen by everyone else.

It's still a pointless goal for women. Would you rather be percieved to be in a position of power or actually be in a position of power? I'm sure the wisest of women would choose to have real power over perchieved power.

http://theworldsrichest.com/people/christy-walton

She's ranked the 11th richest person in the world. 

http://theworldsrichest.com/people/liliane-bettencourt-family

She's ranked at number 9.

This forum has some of the weirdest topics. Eh...I guess it makes for an active board. This one seems to smack of misogyny and victimization. There will never be enough equality in this world. People can hide behind rhetoric and semantics all they want...whether it be in regards to this issue, racism, homophobia or whatever else it is that makes people so mad that other people have it better than they do. The bottom line...we're all creatures of this universe and we all deserve the same respect. If it breaks a few egos along the way to get there, so be it. If you think a woman is looking at you wrong...stop blaming women and just blame that woman. You wouldn't want her to be judging you based on what she knows about "men," would you. If you can't see the irony in this thread...and in its support...then you need to better search your soul for the truth.

pokoko said: Women haven't been given too much power but legislation intended to address problems of imbalance have created new problems of imbalance. You don't fix inequality by adding more inequality. I've mentioned this before on these forums, but a friend of mine used to be in charge of hiring contractors for a large plant. Corporate policy came down that dictated he HAD to hire based on a minority scale. As such, he could no longer hire contractors based on quality. He had to ditch long-standing business partners in favor of new companies that took advantage of the rule by registering ownership under a female relative. He told me many times about how he had to hire back the OLD contractors just to strip away and fix what the NEW contractors had done, thus paying more than double for jobs. We're talking about projects that cost hundreds of thousands of dollars or more. Situations like that are, in a word, stupid. It hurts the bottom line of a company, which gets translated to consumers, and it damages quality and safety standards. It's like having a scale that is off by 25 ounces on once side then throwing 50 ounces on that side in order to fix it. Creating new problems is not a solution.

This summarizes the current situation well. I don't think there is any denying that woman and racial minorities still overall have it worse than the average white male, but the current political approach towards fixing these issues is incredibly backwards. It doesn't help that the situation has digressed into an A vs B pissing contest, where both side are simplifying the situation into nonexistent extremes. The unfortunate fact is that it's a minority of loud idiots creating these extreme opinions.

We won't be able to create a fully equal society until we treat everyone as a single mass, not a collection of different groups. Using inequality to fight inequality is, as you said, stupid.

super_etecoon said: This forum has some of the weirdest topics. Eh...I guess it makes for an active board. This one seems to smack of misogyny and victimization. There will never be enough equality in this world. People can hide behind rhetoric and semantics all they want...whether it be in regards to this issue, racism, homophobia or whatever else it is that makes people so mad that other people have it better than they do. The bottom line...we're all creatures of this universe and we all deserve the same respect. If it breaks a few egos along the way to get there, so be it. If you think a woman is looking at you wrong...stop blaming women and just blame that woman. You wouldn't want her to be judging you based on what she knows about "men," would you. If you can't see the irony in this thread...and in its support...then you need to better search your soul for the truth.

Yeah I agree. 

The "victim" card from men to me just comes off as whiny. 

Guys have it pretty good. We control the political and economic structure pretty much overwhemingly in the West. Most of the big politicians, CEOs, trust fund managers, military chiefs, NASA types, etc. etc. are men. Men control the media pretty much overwhemling. All of these pillars of societal power are overwhelmingly dominated by males. 

If you want to live in a society where all women are treated like cattle, go to Saudi Arabia and see how you like it. 

As far as I can see, the countries that are more civilized and prosperous tend to have more rights/freedoms for their women. 

Any guy who would seriously chose to be a woman for the "woman's perks" would probably coming running back in short order when pondering the logistics of pushing a baby out of their private parts too. 

Women if they aren't married or engaged at least by age 30 start to have a panic attack and put under tremendous pressure in our society. I can't even imagine. As guys we can goof around in our 20s and even 30s, sow our wild oats, and not have to get serious about that stuff because we know we can always marry a girl 8-9-10 years younger and no one bats an eye lash. 

Mr.Playstation said: With the feminism culture being so strong in the western world especially the U.S.A do you think that woman nowadays have too much rights and power? Do you also think that man are starting to be known as second class citizens?   Disclaimer: Please do not let this thread go out of hand. Don't just say feminism sucks, state a reason why it sucks if that is your opinion.

No, what do you think?

Soundwave said: super_etecoon said: This forum has some of the weirdest topics. Eh...I guess it makes for an active board. This one seems to smack of misogyny and victimization. There will never be enough equality in this world. People can hide behind rhetoric and semantics all they want...whether it be in regards to this issue, racism, homophobia or whatever else it is that makes people so mad that other people have it better than they do. The bottom line...we're all creatures of this universe and we all deserve the same respect. If it breaks a few egos along the way to get there, so be it. If you think a woman is looking at you wrong...stop blaming women and just blame that woman. You wouldn't want her to be judging you based on what she knows about "men," would you. If you can't see the irony in this thread...and in its support...then you need to better search your soul for the truth. Yeah I agree.  The "victim" card from men to me just comes off as whiny.  Guys have it pretty good. We control the political and economic structure pretty much overwhemingly in the West. Most of the big politicians, CEOs, trust fund managers, military chiefs, NASA types, etc. etc. are men. Men control the media pretty much overwhemling. All of these pillars of societal power are overwhelmingly dominated by males.  If you want to live in a society where all women are treated like cattle, go to Saudi Arabia and see how you like it.  As far as I can see, the countries that are more civilized and prosperous tend to have more rights/freedoms for their women.  Any guy who would seriously chose to be a woman for the "woman's perks" would probably coming running back in short order when pondering the logistics of pushing a baby out of their private parts too.  Women if they aren't married or engaged at least by age 30 start to have a panic attack and put under tremendous pressure in our society. I can't even imagine. As guys we can goof around in our 20s and even 30s, sow our wild oats, and not have to get serious about that stuff because we know we can always marry a girl 8-9-10 years younger and no one bats an eye lash.

Well, by 30, women's fertility start going down so they need to hurry and get kids once they hit that age (if they want to have any).