| sundin13 said:
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Then that is you being wrong, not every freaking button prompt is a QUICK time event.
| sundin13 said:
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Then that is you being wrong, not every freaking button prompt is a QUICK time event.
DerNebel said:
Then that is you being wrong, not every freaking button prompt is a QUICK time event. |
According to some common definitions of QTE, it is (EDIT: again, when an on screen button prompt appears during a cutscene to give player a small amount of control during said cutscene)...like I said, call it whatever you want, but it is still a pretty damn stupid gameplay mechanic, and whining about the semantics about whether to call it a QTE or invent some new term (i am quite partial to "OSBP" aka On Screen Button Prompt) is just ridiculously nitpicky.
Aura7541 said:
Sooooo.... every single video game known to man has QTE's going by your definition. Welp, I'm not going to get The Order since it incorporates a feature that is also present in smartphone games |
...errr no. What? No...
I think you are missing the fact that a QTE occurs during a cutscene (which I said). Therefore, walking up to a door and it saying "press X to open" isn't a QTE, it is tutorial text. However, if the game is in the middle of a cutscene and tells me to press a button, yeah, thats a QTE
Are you guys honestly this petty that you are making a big deal of this? I wasn't even saying at that point that a QTE was a bad thing, I was just using that word to describe something...jeesh, this is getting comical
| sundin13 said:
Wow, just keep moving those goal posts...call it what you will, but when a button prompt pops up on screen in the middle of a cutscene, I'm going to call it a fucking QTE. |
Sooooo.... every single video game known to man has QTE's going by your definition. Welp, I'm not going to get The Order since it incorporates a feature that is also present in smartphone games 
| sundin13 said:
...errr no. What? No... I think you are missing the fact that a QTE occurs during a cutscene (which I said). Therefore, walking up to a door and it saying "press X to open" isn't a QTE, it is tutorial text. However, if the game is in the middle of a cutscene and tells me to press a button, yeah, thats a QTE Are you guys honestly this petty that you are making a big deal of this? I wasn't even saying at that point that a QTE was a bad thing, I was just using that word to describe something...jeesh, this is getting comical |
Sarcasm, dude. Sarcasm. I can't believe my joke flew over your head that easily.
Looking at Wiki, though, a QTE is "a method of context-sensitive gameplay in which the player performs actions on the control device shortly after the appearance of an on-screen prompt. It allows for limited control of the game character during cut scenes or cinematic sequences in the game."
The key word here is allow, meaning that QTEs are not limited to only cutscenes or cinemative sequences. Therefore, QTEs are also present during gameplay.
sundin13 said:
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You mean according to a Wikipedia definition that you didn't even quote completely?
Here's the sentence that you conveniently left out of your definition:
"Performing the prompted action improperly or not at all results in the character's failure at their task and often in an immediate game over."
This is the difference here, a quick time event, if not performed in time, leads to a failure of the sequence, with a button prompt on the other hand you can take your time and nothing happens, the cutscene will just not continue. And this bit you linked in that first gameplay section looked way more like a simple button prompt than a QTE.
Now neither QTEs nor button prompts are particularly exhilerating gameplay mechanics, but they are not the same and QTEs are without a doubt the more annoying of the 2.
sundin13 said:
C. I've gone into detail a few times about how amazing that first encounter with the Lycan could be. The first meeting with an enemy is the most important, because you don't know how to react. Just imagine for a second, that the players actually kept control in that segment. You turn a corner and there is a guy tearing into the flesh of another. "What do I do?" rushed through your head and all your options are laid out in front of you. Do I turn around and look for another route (If yes, you turn around, explore a bit and you don't find another route bringing you back to square one)? Do I go in guns blazing and try to kill the thing (if yes, you pump a few bullets into it, drawing its attention, at which point, it transforms and starts coming at you)? Do I try to sneak past it (if yes, you move quietly, putting a row of boxes between you and it but all of the sudden, the sound of rending flesh ceases and you hear something sniffing at the air. You press on a few more steps when the monster jumps out at you and blocks your path, forcing you to go the other way)? In each of these cases, you are funneled into the same area, but you get to feel like it was your decision that triggered these events. You learn something about the monster (near impervious to normal bullets or amazing sense of smell) through your own actions and you are left wondering "what if I did this another way". All of these decisions fall on you, and you have to live (or die) with the consequences. Instead, the game stops you when you get close and says "this is how your character is going to deal with the monster, this is the info you will learn, but don't worry, you get to do all of this from the safety of a cutscene". Games are capable of so much more. E. See above... Or even for something more simple, during that super boring gunfight from earlier, have the player in a more open position, with enemies coming from either side. This forces the player to pick one side to defend (maybe even put a friendly NPC on each side, to make the player subconsiously think "who am i going to help") or they can try to defend both sides. This leads to the consequence of getting overwhelmed from one side or the other or both if they choose to multitask, forcing them to retreat at which point their comrade gets shot. This gives the player the choice of how to handle this encounter, makes them feel like "maybe if I just did better, or made a different decision, this outcome could have been prevented" and provides a more fun encounter than just playing whack a mole... Did I ruin the game enough for you or would it be better if I just made the whole game into a movie...because you know, who wants to play a video game...pshhh |
Call it whatever you want, it's still not a QTE and it never will be.
C. What is the goddamn point? None of what you just described is better in any way. It's worse. If there's effectively no choice, then don't freaking bother with the ilusion that you seem to like so much. Don't insult the player, just get on with it. Don't hide or mask the game's limitations. "Games are capable of so much more", yet you just described not doing more, so which is it? Are they or are they not? Give choice or don't give choice. Don't give illusion of choice, that's the worse thing a developer can do. It's cheating. And it makes you feel cheated. It is similar to how some games let you choose dialogues or make actual decisions and then they don't influence anything in any way (like some things in Telltale games). Don't freaking do that.
E. Read the edit. Have a player on a more open position? Move into a more open position. The game doesn't force you to stay where that player did. The guy playing chose to do that. You're not criticizing the game, you're criticizing the player. And that's normal cause most people playing at these events are bad. The game has melee, stun ammo, cover destruction, blacksight (slow mo), there's several ways of approaching fights. If a dumb player choses to play whack a mole behind cover, blame him. Unless you want the game to force him out of that cover..but then..i'll start to get confused cause I no longer understand if you're in favor of choice or not..
The most ironic thing here is that you're trying to advocate for choice yet you're advocating against it. Choice also applies to what types of games we get to choose to play. You're displaying the same kind of narrow minded view of "what all games must be" that some critics have been so guilty of lately (DC and Forza 6 not being open world, among other things). It is elitism, it is snobism.
The game doesn't seem to be for you, so forget about it? I don't go into topics of all the Nintendo games that mean nothing to me describing how i wish they were more like X or Y or more like The Order or Uncharted or any other game. You get them, good for you. Let the rest of us get this instead. We prefer it.
The best thing the industry can have is variety and that can't happen when people act the way they do towards certain games. The Order included.
To conclude, I might add that I feel like gaming has never progress past the original Deus Ex...that pretty much nailed it and sealed it. After reaching that "level", it became a point of, as I say above, simply experiencing different things. No game has ever accomplished more than it and I doubt any ever will. So I want a lot of these devs to stop trying because the end result usually isn't very good. All these open games are getting really boring. There's no point in having choice OR illusion of choice if when you execute it you feel bored or like you have done it a million times (Shadow of mordor is specially guilty of this). Linear story driven games at least can more easily escape this because they are more cohesive and as such, as long as it's well done, it doesn't really feel too much like something before it. They have a stronger sense of identity.
epicurean said:
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Not even that. Every fight scene since the first trailer contained qte's. From memory I remember a gameplay clip where the player is fighting with a human character, that contained qte's. Then there is the e3 gameplay with the werewolf. That contained qte's. Then there is the time when they are in the zepellin pilots cabin. That also contained qte's. That is just from memory and those are all different clips. There are probably more.
| wilco said:
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The zeppelin's cabin is the only scene with QTEs. There are no other QTEs.
Like i said, 18 seconds.
| Roronaa_chan said: Call it whatever you want, it's still not a QTE and it never will be. C. What is the goddamn point? None of what you just described is better in any way. It's worse. If there's effectively no choice, then don't freaking bother with the ilusion that you seem to like so much. Don't insult the player, just get on with it. Don't hide or mask the game's limitations. "Games are capable of so much more", yet you just described not doing more, so which is it? Are they or are they not? Give choice or don't give choice. Don't give illusion of choice, that's the worse thing a developer can do. It's cheating. And it makes you feel cheated. It is similar to how some games let you choose dialogues or make actual decisions and then they don't influence anything in any way (like some things in Telltale games). Don't freaking do that. E. Read the edit. Have a player on a more open position? Move into a more open position. The game doesn't force you to stay where that player did. The guy playing chose to do that. You're not criticizing the game, you're criticizing the player. And that's normal cause most people playing at these events are bad. The game has melee, stun ammo, cover destruction, blacksight (slow mo), there's several ways of approaching fights. If a dumb player choses to play whack a mole behind cover, blame him. Unless you want the game to force him out of that cover..but then..i'll start to get confused cause I no longer understand if you're in favor of choice or not.. The most ironic thing here is that you're trying to advocate for choice yet you're advocating against it. Choice also applies to what types of games we get to choose to play. You're displaying the same kind of narrow minded view of "what all games must be" that some critics have been so guilty of lately (DC and Forza 6 not being open world, among other things). It is elitism, it is snobism. The game doesn't seem to be for you, so forget about it? I don't go into topics of all the Nintendo games that mean nothing to me describing how i wish they were more like X or Y or more like The Order or Uncharted or any other game. You get them, good for you. Let the rest of us get this instead. We prefer it. The best thing the industry can have is variety and that can't happen when people act the way they do towards certain games. The Order included.
To conclude, I might add that I feel like gaming has never progress past the original Deus Ex...that pretty much nailed it and sealed it. After reaching that "level", it became a point of, as I say above, simply experiencing different things. No game has ever accomplished more than it and I doubt any ever will. So I want a lot of these devs to stop trying because the end result usually isn't very good. All these open games are getting really boring. There's no point in having choice OR illusion of choice if when you execute it you feel bored or like you have done it a million times (Shadow of mordor is specially guilty of this). Linear story driven games at least can more easily escape this because they are more cohesive and as such, as long as it's well done, it doesn't really feel too much like something before it. They have a stronger sense of identity. |
Semantics-shmantics. If you don't want to call them QTEs, thats fine but that doesn't make them any more interesting
C. Errr...every game has limitations. A good game hides those limitations and makes the player feel like their decisions matter. I described a game that puts the decisions on the players head and makes them feel like their decisions matter. That is the strength of games, putting the power in the players hands. Like I said, a good game, hides its limitations...once again, watch the Extra Credits videos I posted for a more in depth desription of why both agency and the illusion of choice matter, even in linear games.
E. Why would the player move into a less advantageous position? If the optimal strategy is boring, it is not the players fault for applying that strategy. As stated, in another video, the player attempted to move around, but the section was obviously designed around the player staying in their cubby-hole and they almost died.
Once again, you are misunderstanding everything I am saying about choice. CHOICE DOES NOT MEAN OPEN WORLD and it doesn't even mean just narrative choice.
Uncharted is a good example of gameplay choice in a linear game. Often it presents numerous paths that the player can take with its interesting terrain traversal and gives the player the option of playing with stealth or going guns blazing. Often the player actually has to think about where they can move and when they can move and which order to take enemies out. I rarely felt like I was playing whack a mole in Uncharted... I am not criticizing linear games, I am not criticizing cover based shooters, I am criticizing the order
@Der: it says "often", not "always"