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Forums - Sports Discussion - Arroyo Valley High coach suspended for winning

Mr Khan said:
Euphoria14 said:
Mr Khan said:
It showcases several administrative failures, really

1) These teams shouldn't have been playing each other in the first place, clearly. Though it was a non-league game or something? So yeah, i don't see the point in sticking to the rules if that were the case. Schools need to be placed based on their ability to field a good team, but this varies based on which part of which state you live in.

2) All sports need a mercy rule. Something big enough to be rarely implemented, but certainly present to prevent things like this from happening, because yeah, getting your ass handed to you is not fun, and the people who call it a "learning experience" have obviously never had it happen to them. Getting destroyed doesn't teach you anything, it just makes the game un-fun, and makes the experience cruel after a certain point. It's not war, it's a damn sport, and if something's happening to make it un-sporting, there's no reason to keep playing.

A suspension would be a bit much, though. I mean, you can't make the guy apologize or anything for doing what he was supposed to do, though his admission that he didn't want it to go down like that certainly helps.

Played many sports? I have and I have been on both ends, whether it be getting blown out regularly or enjoying winning streaks.

To the ones who find it un-fan and don't want to play anymore, good. Let them quit. That only opens the door to the other ones who wanted to play but couldn't get onto the team due to limited roster space.

Playing sports on a high school level isn't a right. It's a priviledge. 

You might disagree but as a long time sports player this has always been my view and I always took that view with me when I went out there to play.

What's the motivation to play if you aren't having, on some level, fun? Winning can be "fun" whether or not you're having a good time of it, you feel a sense of achievement or what have you. Losing really badly bestows the team with nothing, unless the bad loss was due to some obvious flaw that could be corrected, a teaching moment. That doesn't seem to be the case here and in other cases where the mercy rule should apply.

I've never played sports in an official capacity, but it can hardly be any different from any other engagement. A hard-fought game, even lost, is still thrilling enough to have been worth the price of entry. A humiliating defeat is just that, a humiliation, and of no good to anyone except to poor winners on the winning side.

As I expected, you don't have that competitive sports nature to understand what I meant, and I don't mean that to try and sound condescending. It's just one of those things where either you have it or you don't. If the way this comes across sounds that way then I apologize.

Just making a team in itself is a competition. Remaining on that team is a competition. The purpose of being on a team is to learn to function as a unit in order to win and to strive to become a better player in order to allow your team work better together.

If you aren't good enough to be a starter, you ride the bench. If you're not good enough off the bench, you get kicked from the team.

Like I said, it's a priviledge and not a right and it needs to be looked at that way and not about just letting kids join based soley on them wanting to have fun, because some of the best players look at it as much more than that.



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Euphoria14 said:
Mr Khan said:

What's the motivation to play if you aren't having, on some level, fun? Winning can be "fun" whether or not you're having a good time of it, you feel a sense of achievement or what have you. Losing really badly bestows the team with nothing, unless the bad loss was due to some obvious flaw that could be corrected, a teaching moment. That doesn't seem to be the case here and in other cases where the mercy rule should apply.

I've never played sports in an official capacity, but it can hardly be any different from any other engagement. A hard-fought game, even lost, is still thrilling enough to have been worth the price of entry. A humiliating defeat is just that, a humiliation, and of no good to anyone except to poor winners on the winning side.

As I expected, you don't have that competitive sports nature to understand what I meant, and I don't mean that to try and sound condescending. It's just one of those things where either you have it or you don't. If the way this comes across sounds that way then I apologize.

Just making a team in itself is a competition. Remaining on that team is a competition. The purpose of being on a team is to learn to function as a unit in order to win and to strive to become a better player in order to allow your team work better together.

If you aren't good enough to be a starter, you ride the bench. If you're not good enough off the bench, you get kicked from the team.

Like I said, it's a priviledge and not a right and it needs to be looked at that way and not about just letting kids join based soley on them wanting to have fun, because some of the best players look at it as much more than that.

Right: competition can be fun (fun is not mere frivolity, just like happiness is not mere hedonism. Same way grind-fests like Monster Hunter can be just as fun as a quick-paced game of Smash), but again, losing very badly is not fun and doesn't have a place in the system. Forcing people to endure a bad loss beyond any point of recall is just a humiliation, like if everybody was forced to try out for the team, even if they didn't want to, just so the people who were good at the sport could stoke their own ego about how much better they are than average. You are not proving anything beyond a certain point that isn't already apparent to everyone, there is no pride or glory, just angst.

Though ultimately we're talking about very isolated incidents. I'd peg the mercy rule as something like two standard deviations away from the average point spread for the sport in question, something that's statistically very unlikely to happen, but certainly can happen. Would only apply to high school sports, maybe the NCAA. Pro is different because the folks may get humiliated, but at least they're getting paid.



Monster Hunter: pissing me off since 2010.

Mr Khan said:
Euphoria14 said:
Mr Khan said:
 

What's the motivation to play if you aren't having, on some level, fun? Winning can be "fun" whether or not you're having a good time of it, you feel a sense of achievement or what have you. Losing really badly bestows the team with nothing, unless the bad loss was due to some obvious flaw that could be corrected, a teaching moment. That doesn't seem to be the case here and in other cases where the mercy rule should apply.

I've never played sports in an official capacity, but it can hardly be any different from any other engagement. A hard-fought game, even lost, is still thrilling enough to have been worth the price of entry. A humiliating defeat is just that, a humiliation, and of no good to anyone except to poor winners on the winning side.

As I expected, you don't have that competitive sports nature to understand what I meant, and I don't mean that to try and sound condescending. It's just one of those things where either you have it or you don't. If the way this comes across sounds that way then I apologize.

Just making a team in itself is a competition. Remaining on that team is a competition. The purpose of being on a team is to learn to function as a unit in order to win and to strive to become a better player in order to allow your team work better together.

If you aren't good enough to be a starter, you ride the bench. If you're not good enough off the bench, you get kicked from the team.

Like I said, it's a priviledge and not a right and it needs to be looked at that way and not about just letting kids join based soley on them wanting to have fun, because some of the best players look at it as much more than that.

Right: competition can be fun (fun is not mere frivolity, just like happiness is not mere hedonism. Same way grind-fests like Monster Hunter can be just as fun as a quick-paced game of Smash), but again, losing very badly is not fun and doesn't have a place in the system. Forcing people to endure a bad loss beyond any point of recall is just a humiliation, like if everybody was forced to try out for the team, even if they didn't want to, just so the people who were good at the sport could stoke their own ego about how much better they are than average. You are not proving anything beyond a certain point that isn't already apparent to everyone, there is no pride or glory, just angst.

Though ultimately we're talking about very isolated incidents. I'd peg the mercy rule as something like two standard deviations away from the average point spread for the sport in question, something that's statistically very unlikely to happen, but certainly can happen. Would only apply to high school sports, maybe the NCAA. Pro is different because the folks may get humiliated, but at least they're getting paid.

Agreed, this is no doubt an isolated incident. It is never usually this bad in any level of sports, unless you're playing playground ball and getting your butt whooped to the point where you pick up your bags and walk off the court.

As for losing badly not having a place in the system though, I do not believe mercy rule in all sports does either, but clearly this isn't a discussion where we will likely come to any full agreement on and I am positive we have said just about all that we both could say.

Still enjoyed it none the less.



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Oh, ok, maybe we should suspend the world cup too, because making Brazil lose on home at 7-1 was reallly "disrespectfull"(and i'm a brazzilian).

Really, this kind of thing happen, when you go dispute anything, you go accepting the possibility of loosing badly. If you don't want this preassure on you, don't even try.



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justiceiro said:
Oh, ok, maybe we should suspend the world cup too, because making Brazil lose on home at 7-1 was reallly "disrespectfull"(and i'm a brazzilian).

Really, this kind of thing happen, when you go dispute anything, you go accepting the possibility of loosing badly. If you don't want this preassure on you, don't even try.


Germany could have easily had more than 7. They went easy on Brazil.



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I love seeing teams get smashed like this. The only message being sent by suspending the coach is that winning isn't important. Wait, what?

Isn't that the goal of any game?

Uh? Hmm.

Winning is everything in life and I have no sympathy for losers.



BraLoD said:
The other team score 2 points! They are also winners!

Lol, seriously, if you don't wanna be crushed, train more.

What if Germany was taken off the cup after beating Brazil that hard? It's a game, it's a possibility, and all players should know this. Ridiculous, I hope the man get back to his position soon.


Sadly, those two points they scored were free throws.  Bloomington had 1 point at the end of the first half, and the only way to make 1 point shots in basketball are from free throws.



This I've never heard before. A coach getting suspended for winning by too much? What!?



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LOL suspend the coach is not gonnal do thing to the team. If this team have superstar still winning team. Just replace with assistan coach and done LOL



JoeAncelotti said:
This I've never heard before. A coach getting suspended for winning by too much? What!?


The argument was that it was unsportsman-like to win by that much. 

Personally, the more I think about it, the more I feel like this problem may be accentuated by sexism (that it's girls basketball, and therefore it's less serious and more about 'just having fun').   I could be wrong, though.

I've read a lot of the comments on several different articles, and I see a lot of them also make it seem like this was a middle or elementary school.  I don't think high schoolers are as sensitive.  Then again, it's not like this is a topic I know much about, which is why I wanted to see different opinions by making a thread about it.