DerNebel said: curl-6 said: DerNebel said: Game development has become many times more expensive, in part due to higher production value (graphics, voice acting, motion capturing) but also due to unnecessary high marketing costs. Games in the 90 could be made with teams of 25 people and a years time, now an AAA studio probably needs at least 80-90 people and 3 years (numbers more or less pulled out of my ass). I understand that, hence why I don't expect modern games to be churned out as quickly as in the 4th gen. It's more the approach to gameplay design I find less appealing among today's games, in general.  You mean in the sense that games are kind of being homogenized and annualized a lot? That can also be attributed to the increased risk that comes with the heightened cost of game development, publishers are trying to minimize risk by sticking with what is successful. I generally don't really mind that practice of leaning on your popular franchises, I'd just wish that publishers would use the money they make from those projects more to also fund smaller or less mainstream projects. I feel Sony is a publisher that does that, which is why I actually want them to get 1 or 2 new really big franchises that they can milk a little (ideally not from ND), which can then help fund the smaller games that I want to happen (Dark Cloud 3, Ni No Kuni 2 etc.)

Pretty much, yeah. I also feel that modern games too often let their cinematic and technological fancies run away with them. Meh, maybe I'm just old fashioned.

curl-6 said: Boberkun said: curl-6 said: Jumpin said: The main issue with Bayonetta in general is that it is a game aimed primarily at 12-14 year old boys. So's GTA, COD, and most modern console games for that matter. Bayonetta's problem is that its style is not palatable to the Western mainstream consumer. Strange thing, but it also not palatable to the japanese audience. It's not mainstream by any cultural standard, to be honest. It's geared to appeal to a very specific taste with its bizarre, over-the-top, hyper-everything approach.

Just like 90 % japanese game industry. It's another problem here. Lack of marketing or something.

generic-user-1 said: i dont get this npd tracking holy grail thingy, they could be even more of than ioi for some games. they dont track every sale, they use a lot of math to get from sample numbers to npd numbers.

Let me know when console makers send out press releases in response to VGChartz updates.

curl-6 said: Bayonetta's problem is that its style is not palatable to the Western mainstream consumer.

Or the Japanese mainstream consumer, or a lot of people who aren't mainstream consumers.  

As for a return to Nintendo's former tactics, some of which were illegal, no thank you.  Threatening developers in order to keep them from making games for other systems is horrible, not to mention forcing them to surrender manufacturing rights in order to control production and protect their own games.

Goodnightmoon said: S.T.A.G.E. said: This is why third parties who opt to work with Nintendo of their own accord should step back from Nintendo until Nintendo creates a profitable grounds for them while being a third party for Nintendo. Sony and Microsoft have been doing it for years, and Nintendo had in the past. The problem with Nintendo doing that in the past is they had control over third parties back then. Everyone had to do everything their way. I will buy this game when I get my Wii U but Nintendo deserves this. You should remember that Bayonetta 1 doesn´t even reach 1 million on X360 (0.91m Vgchartz) and was released on a 80m userbase console years ago. Bayo 2 is around 400k on less than 3 months on a barely 9m userbase console. Don´t blame Nintendo owners taste if the game is niche here, on ps3, on xbox 360 and everywhere, still has the chance to hit 1m someday too on a console with maybe only 18m sold.

Yes, but nine million is more permissible than what Bayonetta 2 is currently selling. The second thing to add is that Sony was the game was multiplat and whatever the Playstation sold offset the sales the XBox had.. The Wii U is going onto its third year this year and its only at ten million consoles. Also, Sega demanded more in sales from Bayonetta so the profit demands for Bayonetta 2 needed had to be well over 2.5 to be profitable on the level that Sega was demanding when they first published. Nintendo took a bullet to see like their console is diverse when it comes to third party.

Conegamer said: Blood_Tears said: Hideki Kamiya told all the customers willing to buy it to F*ck off on Twitter….so it looks like they did just that. Tough love, awe well… I think you're misremembering that.

http://playeressence.com/kamiya-is-still-telling-users-to-fk-off-for-port-begging-for-bayonetta-2/

Well to be fair, they were port begging yes but still potential customers. You want to sell your game to these people, not irratate them.

That's like if I ask CD about a Tomb Raider port to PS4 and they tell me to fuck off, you think I am gonna buy an X1 and a copy of their game, hell no! 

Bottom line is, his attitide didn't help sell this game. People on gaf and other forums may think he's cool for calling people idiots on twitter and acting like a bad ass but Platinum games doesn't need a bad ass, they need a game that actually sells. Seriously, if I'm developer whose games have sold as bad as the majority of PG's, I wouldn't be running my mouth on Twitter in 2014/2015. There's a good reason why people like Phil Spencer and Shu for that matter get so much praise. They know how to handle the public.

pokoko said: As for a return to Nintendo's former tactics, some of which were illegal, no thank you.  Threatening developers in order to keep them from making games for other systems is horrible, not to mention forcing them to surrender manufacturing rights in order to control production and protect their own games.

Again, if the 8th gen is indicative of what a market ruled by third parties look like, I can scarcely remember a less interesting time to be a gamer.

badgenome said: generic-user-1 said: i dont get this npd tracking holy grail thingy, they could be even more of than ioi for some games. they dont track every sale, they use a lot of math to get from sample numbers to npd numbers. Let me know when console makers send out press releases in response to VGChartz updates.

that doesnt mean the numbers of npd are better... nobody i taking iois numbers because just he knows how he got the sample, we know the sampling method for npd. but that doesnt mean that they have the right numbers, they dont track all sales, they use math just like ioi(i realy hope he isnt just guessing). if ioi has a better sample his numbers could be better(a bigger sample doesnt mean a better sample, and we know that npd has to use alot of math to get the sample into shape) im still looking for the right thread for this discussion, link?

Blood_Tears said: Conegamer said: Blood_Tears said: Hideki Kamiya told all the customers willing to buy it to F*ck off on Twitter….so it looks like they did just that. Tough love, awe well… I think you're misremembering that.  http://playeressence.com/kamiya-is-still-telling-users-to-fk-off-for-port-begging-for-bayonetta-2/ Well to be fair, they were port begging yes but still potential customers. You want to sell your game to these people, not irratate them. That's like if I ask CD about a Tomb Raider port to PS4 and they tell me to fuck off, you think I am gonna buy an X1 and a copy of their game, hell no!  Bottom line is, his attitide didn't help sell this game. People on gaf and other forums may think he's cool for calling people idiots on twitter and acting like a bad ass but Platinum games doesn't need a bad ass, they need a game that actually sells. Seriously, if I'm developer whose games have sold as bad as the majority of PG's, I wouldn't be running my mouth on Twitter in 2014/2015. There's a good reason why people like Phil Spencer and Shu for that matter get so much praise. They know how to handle the public.

I agree he could have worded himself better, but at the same time he said several times it was Nintendo exclusive. You wouldn't expect people to get Zelda on the X1, or Halo on the Wii U, for example. 

The fact it is Nintendo exclusive may have hurt sales yes, but it was only made in the first place thanks to it being Nintendo exclusive.

generic-user-1 said: that doesnt mean the numbers of npd are better... nobody i taking iois numbers because just he knows how he got the sample, we know the sampling method for npd. but that doesnt mean that they have the right numbers, they dont track all sales, they use math just like ioi(i realy hope he isnt just guessing). if ioi has a better sample his numbers could be better(a bigger sample doesnt mean a better sample, and we know that npd has to use alot of math to get the sample into shape) im still looking for the right thread for this discussion, link?

I wouldn't worry about it. This seems like a perfect thread for this discussion.

I know NPD isn't spot on about everything, but it says a lot that these corporations bother to craft their PR around their numbers. I don't think ioi is just guessing, of course, but software tends to be way overtracked here. And it only gets worse over time because VGC continues to track sales for games that literally cannot be selling any more new copies.