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Forums - Gaming Discussion - Bayonetta 2 sold less than 135K in the US

Skullwaker said:

 

There's not really any proof that Bayo 2 would have sold more than typical mutliplatform games if it was multiplatform. It's such a niche game that targets a specific audience; there's no way it would outsell games like Destiny or Watch_Dogs, or even games like Wolfenstein and The Evil Within. 

Right now, the market is clammoring for FPS/TPS games, not sexy hack & slash witch games, and that's just the sad truth. The game has its following, and that helps it survive on its own, but the general public doesn't gravitate towards it.


If Bayonetta 2 had sold across all three platforms it would've sold rather well. Problem is it didn't and thats no fault of Nintendos. I just knew it wouldn't profit exclusive to any platform let alone Nintendo's. The only hack n slash that can survive exclusivity is God of War.



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Skullwaker said:
Insidb said:
Skullwaker said:
...How? Bayo 2 is outpacing the original, even when you combine the PS3 and 360 versions. And that's without considering that the original is said to be very overtracked to begin with.

 

I'm talking about a comparison to multiplatform games that have outsold Bayo2, but definitely would not have if Bayo2 was multiplatform. Sometimes, people just look at total sales figures, point, and say, "Winner!" Given install base ratios of the 3 consoles, we know that is an awfully misleading (and often agenda-driven) strategy.

There's not really any proof that Bayo 2 would have sold more than typical mutliplatform games if it was multiplatform. It's such a niche game that targets a specific audience; there's no way it would outsell games like Destiny or Watch_Dogs, or even games like Wolfenstein and The Evil Within. 

Right now, the market is clammoring for FPS/TPS games, not sexy hack & slash witch games, and that's just the sad truth. The game has its following, and that helps it survive on its own, but the general public doesn't gravitate towards it.

While FPS/TPS games are dominating the sales charts, that doesn't change the fact that the original sold over 2M copies on the PS3/X360 (roughly 3X Bayo 2's current sales, which we shoudl expect to taper). My point (and I see where Ineed to clarify) is that I would expect it to have sold well across the 3 consoles, not only because of the orginal's sales figures, but also because I highly doubt that those buyers all migrated to WiiU from the PS3/X360. In all reality, I would assume that most of them chose PS4/X1 for the next gen, based upon sales figures and the investment that buying a console requires. For further reference, Bayo 2 on WiiU has outsold Wolfenstein AND The Evil Within on X1, despite have an install base that's 20% smaller.



S.T.A.G.E. said:
Skullwaker said:

 

There's not really any proof that Bayo 2 would have sold more than typical mutliplatform games if it was multiplatform. It's such a niche game that targets a specific audience; there's no way it would outsell games like Destiny or Watch_Dogs, or even games like Wolfenstein and The Evil Within. 

Right now, the market is clammoring for FPS/TPS games, not sexy hack & slash witch games, and that's just the sad truth. The game has its following, and that helps it survive on its own, but the general public doesn't gravitate towards it.


If Bayonetta 2 had sold across all three platforms it would've sold rather well. Problem is it didn't and thats no fault of Nintendos. I just knew it wouldn't profit exclusive to any platform let alone Nintendo's. The only hack n slash that can survive exclusivity is God of War.

No doubt it would've sold more, but I really doubt it would've sold any more than standard multiplats. 

Though I do think Bayo 2 will be profitable in the end for Platinum & Nintendo, considering they reused assets from the original and developing for one platform costs less. Even if it ends up not being profitable, I'm just glad this game exists. It's better to have a great sequel flop than not have a sequel at all, and I highly doubt that Nintendo expected huge amounts of sales, especially considering the install base right now.



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Skullwaker said:

No doubt it would've sold more, but I really doubt it would've sold any more than standard multiplats. 

Though I do think Bayo 2 will be profitable in the end for Platinum & Nintendo, considering they reused assets from the original and developing for one platform costs less. Even if it ends up not being profitable, I'm just glad this game exists. It's better to have a great sequel flop than not have a sequel at all, and I highly doubt that Nintendo expected huge amounts of sales, especially considering the install base right now.


Bolded for truth.



Insidb said:
While FPS/TPS games are dominating the sales charts, that doesn't change the fact that the original sold over 2M copies on the PS3/X360 (roughly 3X Bayo 2's current sales, which we shoudl expect to taper). My point (and I see where Ineed to clarify) is that I would expect it to have sold well across the 3 consoles, not only because of the orginal's sales figures, but also because I highly doubt that those buyers all migrated to WiiU from the PS3/X360. In all reality, I would assume that most of them chose PS4/X1 for the next gen, based upon sales figures and the investment that buying a console requires. For further reference, Bayo 2 on WiiU has outsold Wolfenstein AND The Evil Within on X1, despite have an install base that's 20% smaller.

 

Why should we expect Bayo 2's sales to taper? The original had rather decent legs, and most of its sales came from the years following its release. Bayo 2 has a chance to continue selling given that: a.) It's published by Nintendo, b.) It's a highly acclaimed game, c.) It comes with the original game, and d.) If Nintendo/Platinum aren't satisfied with the sales, they will likely cut the price later on and that will increase sales as well. I think it will end up selling a respectable amount. 

Yes, it would've sold more if it was available on all three platforms, but that was never a possibility to begin with. Platinum wanted to make this game multiplat but nobody would publish except Nintendo, and obviously they're not gonna publish a game on PS4/XB1. Furthermore, Bayo 2 hasn't outsold those games on XB1 given that it's overtracked in the US. Plus, that's ignoring the PS4's massive sales in comparison.  



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GTAexpert said:
curl-6 said:
Conina said:

Much stronger competition on that platform when Bayonetta 1 was released on the Xbox360? With its release in the first week of January 2010 it missed the whole christmas sales but still had to compete with all the other AAA-games released in Q4/2009 and Q1/2010:

CoD: Modern Warfare 2, Forza 3, Assassin's Creed 2, Left 4 Dead 2, GTA IV Episodes / GOTY Edition, Dragon Age Origins, Borderlands, Brutal Legend, Tekken 6, Halo: ODST, Mass Effect 2, Red Dead Redemption, Splinter Cell: Conviction, BioShock 2, Battlefield: Bad Company 2, Darksiders, Drgon Age: Awakening, Final Fantasy XII, Just Cause 2, Metro 2033 ...

360-owners who wanted a fast-paced action game with nice graphics in that time frame had more than enough choice... and new IPs like Bayonetta, Darksiders, Brutal Legend and Borderlands had very stiff competition.

So which competitors had Bayonetta 2 on the WiiU in the last and following months? Super Smash Bros., Hyrule Warriors and a half-year-old Mario Kart 8... that's it!

Smash Bros and MK8 alone were as strong competition as anything on 360 within Bayo 1's timeframe.

Overestimating them too much aren't we? They alone aren't as strong as that 360 lineup which he pointed out. On the PS3, it had even more direct competition in the form of God Of War III so it stood no chance.

The Wii U base is pretty damn keen on Kart/Smash; look at their attach rate. Besides which, I'm fairly sure most Wii U owners are not single-console owners, so competition on other systems factors in as well.

As to GTA's demographics, try asking some boys aged 12-14 about it, odds are they've played it and love it. I'm not saying older demographics don't play it, of course they do. But it's 'fuck the rules' approach appeals very strongly to kids going through the rebellious phase of puberty and pre-puberty.



curl-6 said:

The Wii U base is pretty damn keen on Kart/Smash; look at their attach rate. Besides which, I'm fairly sure most Wii U owners are not single-console owners, so competition on other systems factors in as well.

As to GTA's demographics, try asking some boys aged 12-14 about it, odds are they've played it and love it. I'm not saying older demographics don't play it, of course they do. But it's 'fuck the rules' approach appeals very strongly to kids going through the rebellious phase of puberty and pre-puberty.


For my part, I played GTA III back when it first came out. I was 23. I found its gameplay to be a novelty, but running over pedestrians got old after awhile and I found the missions to be boring. I found its humor to be very puerile humor that would be more likely to appeal to kids than adults just because it had a lot of bad words and toilet language. Yes, it did have some political satire which I got but even that came off as rather juvenile. My teenage nephew liked it a lot better than I did, and he lost interest in it when he turned 18.



S.T.A.G.E. said:
Burek said:
Chazore said:


let's pin it all on Nintendo for it's lacklusture sales even though it wouldn't have happened if not for them.

Bayo 1 didn't do that well at all even on both the 360 and PS3, especially with the PS3 being the worst port, the game itself is niche and that's all there is to it, all of Platinum's games have sold poorly when you compare them to most big hitting popular games let alone sales in general and yet they keep on trucking.

How do you read that I'm pinning it on Nintendo?

You actually confirm my statement in your second paragraph, in which you are absolutely correct on everything. Bayonetta is a niche title that struggled to sell as a multiplat. To expect it will all of a sudden succeed as an exclusive was silly.

It would have struggled had it released on all 3 consoles simultaneously, exclusivity doomed it from the start.


Truth. They just don't get it. They don't learn from history. If you don't know how the problem started, your chances are fixing it are slim.


Explain to me how it is a problem...  To say that multiplats not being on wiiu is a problem is like saying that ios not being an open os is a problem because ios users don't get much of a choice in cellphone hardware.   It's something that's different about Nintendo consoles but I don't see how it's a huge problem. Humans are capable of making decisions like buying more than one console to fill their needs.



S.T.A.G.E. said:
Skullwaker said:

 

There's not really any proof that Bayo 2 would have sold more than typical mutliplatform games if it was multiplatform. It's such a niche game that targets a specific audience; there's no way it would outsell games like Destiny or Watch_Dogs, or even games like Wolfenstein and The Evil Within. 

Right now, the market is clammoring for FPS/TPS games, not sexy hack & slash witch games, and that's just the sad truth. The game has its following, and that helps it survive on its own, but the general public doesn't gravitate towards it.


If Bayonetta 2 had sold across all three platforms it would've sold rather well. Problem is it didn't and thats no fault of Nintendos. I just knew it wouldn't profit exclusive to any platform let alone Nintendo's. The only hack n slash that can survive exclusivity is God of War.

On what basis are you suggesting the game isn't going to end up being profitable?  Because lifetime I'm seeing it bring in about 60 to 90 million in revenue. And I feel like the game cost around 15 to 25 million to develop and market.

What are your calculations?   For example Halo 3 had a massive marketing and dev budget of about 60 million total.   I'm really scratching my head trying to figure out how bayo 2 doesn't provide profit especially with the middle man publisher being cut out.



Skullwaker said:
Insidb said:
While FPS/TPS games are dominating the sales charts, that doesn't change the fact that the original sold over 2M copies on the PS3/X360 (roughly 3X Bayo 2's current sales, which we shoudl expect to taper). My point (and I see where Ineed to clarify) is that I would expect it to have sold well across the 3 consoles, not only because of the orginal's sales figures, but also because I highly doubt that those buyers all migrated to WiiU from the PS3/X360. In all reality, I would assume that most of them chose PS4/X1 for the next gen, based upon sales figures and the investment that buying a console requires. For further reference, Bayo 2 on WiiU has outsold Wolfenstein AND The Evil Within on X1, despite have an install base that's 20% smaller.

 

Why should we expect Bayo 2's sales to taper? The original had rather decent legs, and most of its sales came from the years following its release. Bayo 2 has a chance to continue selling given that: a.) It's published by Nintendo, b.) It's a highly acclaimed game, c.) It comes with the original game, and d.) If Nintendo/Platinum aren't satisfied with the sales, they will likely cut the price later on and that will increase sales as well. I think it will end up selling a respectable amount. 

Yes, it would've sold more if it was available on all three platforms, but that was never a possibility to begin with. Platinum wanted to make this game multiplat but nobody would publish except Nintendo, and obviously they're not gonna publish a game on PS4/XB1. Furthermore, Bayo 2 hasn't outsold those games on XB1 given that it's overtracked in the US. Plus, that's ignoring the PS4's massive sales in comparison.  

I actually think we are in agreement, as I don't disagree with any of your points. I would expect sales to taper, because software sales traditionally taper after launch (just like the launch of any media). I also think it will sell well over time. To touch upon the multiplatform, your point about the PS4 having an even larger install base only further emphasizes the point. If the previously mentioned Wolfenstein and Evil sold less on a system with a larger install base, then it's not crazy to scale up the sales in accordance with the X1 install base. Then, the PS4 has an even larger install base, which tends to skew more towards eastern gaming, like Bayo 2. While pure conjecture, it seems very much to be the case that a multiplat release (not a possibility) would have done very well.