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Forums - Nintendo - I don't want Retro to make the next Metroid game.

the_dengle said:
curl-6 said:

Played a few hours of Demon's and Dark 1, couldn't get into them. Haven't played Dark 2.

You "couldn't get into" Dark Souls 1, or it was too (bad) hard for you? (I recognize that sounds derogatory but I don't mean it that way; I just think it's the appropraite way to phrase the question.)

I could cope with the difficulty level of combat outside of bosses, I just thought there was too much penalty for death. I would've preferred an easy mode be available.



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I don't want Retro to make another metroid game. Not anything against Retro or Prime, but I'd simply like something a bit different. It might work out well, or it might not, but I'd like a different take on the franchise, and I'd like Retro to work on something else (not DK).



curl-6 said:

I could cope with the difficulty level of combat outside of bosses, I just thought there was too much penalty for death. I would've preferred an easy mode be available.

Interesting. Kind of funny too, because I was thinking exactly about certain moments in Dark Souls compared to certain moments in Zelda or Metroid, and how very similar they are except for the penalty, which is almost nonexistent in the latter.

I think the penalty for death in Dark Souls is just fine, as there's no penalty provided you can get to the same point you died at a second time. The penalty was much worse in Demon's Souls, where your health bar was halved... You probably won't like Dark Souls II any more, as it slightly decreases your max health with each death to a limit of half.

Anyway, losing a bunch of souls behind a fog gate is a drag, but you can always grab them and use a homeward bone if you're not ready for the boss yet.



curl-6 said:

Platforming is not a core aspect of Metroid, any more than shooting is a core aspect of Zelda. It's a minor component.


...You've got to be kidding. That's not even remotely comparable. Platforming dictates literally every aspect of traversal in Metroid. Most of the power ups in Metroid games revolve around platforming. Screw Attack. Space Jump. High Jump Boots. Speed Booster. Shine Spark. Bomb jump. Wall jump. Frozen enemies as platforms. Varia suit. Gravity Suit. Half the bosses in Metroid games can only be defeated through platforming. You can't beat any of the Metroid games without being as at least as proficient at platforming as you are in a game like Mario, save for the Prime games where the platforming was neutered. That is literally like saying platforming is a mimor element of Donkey Kong Country.

I'm seriously not trying to sound condescending, but you seriously need to reacquaint yourself with all the Metroid games, and also the definition of a platformer, if you can seriously say something like that. You are painfully wrong.



spemanig said:
curl-6 said:

Platforming is not a core aspect of Metroid, any more than shooting is a core aspect of Zelda. It's a minor component.


...You've got to be kidding. That's not even remotely comparable. Platforming dictates literally every aspect of traversal in Metroid. Most of the power ups in Metroid games revolve around platforming. Screw Attack. Space Jump. High Jump Boots. Speed Booster. Shine Spark. Bomb jump. Wall jump. Frozen enemies as platforms. Varia suit. Gravity Suit. Half the bosses in Metroid games can only be defeated through platforming. You can't beat any of the Metroid games without being as at least as proficient at platforming as you are in a game like Mario, save for the Prime games where the platforming was neutered. That is literally like saying platforming is a mimor element of Donkey Kong Country.

I'm seriously not trying to sound condescending, but you seriously need to reacquaint yourself with all the Metroid games, and also the definition of a platformer, if you can seriously say something like that. You are painfully wrong.

And many of the items in Zelda revolve around shooting; slingshot, bow, hookshot, boomerang...

Platforming is just a means to an end in Metroid, like shooting in Zelda. The real focus is exploration.



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theRepublic said:

No.  Platforming is an after thought in Metroid.  Yes, I am talking about the 2D games, Metroid, Super Metroid, etc.

How can I tell?  It is because of how simple the platforming is.  Platforms are generally close together, there is rarely any penalty for falling, and timing is almost never important.  It is only nominally a platformer, and that is because every 2D game is pretty much a platformer.  That is the only way to get around.  If you want to design a game that you explore vertically, you need a way to get up and down.  Hence the jumping, and numerous "elevator shaft" type corridors with tons of easy to jump to platforms.

Exploration is the number 1 core aspect to Metroid.  You just touched down on an alien planet, now it is time to explore, collect power-ups to get stronger, shoot some bad guys, and kill some sweet bosses.  Running and jumping are mostly just ways to explore, or dodge incoming attacks from baddies and bosses.  The Prime games had that in spades.


Platforming is absolutely not an after thought in Metroid. Not going to repeat why though when I've said it a dozen times here.

I will say that just because there's no fail state for missing a platform doesn't mean that the platforming is an after thought. Also, the platforming is not remotely simple.



spemanig said:
curl-6 said:

Platforming is not a core aspect of Metroid, any more than shooting is a core aspect of Zelda. It's a minor component.

...You've got to be kidding. That's not even remotely comparable. Platforming dictates literally every aspect of traversal in Metroid. Most of the power ups in Metroid games revolve around platforming. Screw Attack. Space Jump. High Jump Boots. Speed Booster. Shine Spark. Bomb jump. Wall jump. Frozen enemies as platforms. Varia suit. Gravity Suit. Half the bosses in Metroid games can only be defeated through platforming. You can't beat any of the Metroid games without being as at least as proficient at platforming as you are in a game like Mario, save for the Prime games where the platforming was neutered. That is literally like saying platforming is a mimor element of Donkey Kong Country.

I'm seriously not trying to sound condescending, but you seriously need to reacquaint yourself with all the Metroid games, and also the definition of a platformer, if you can seriously say something like that. You are painfully wrong.

As does almost every other 2D game.  That does not make all of them primarily platformers though.

http://www.nesmaps.com/maps/Metroid/Brinstar.html

Look how simple the placement of platforms is.  The challenge is in exploration, and attacking and avoiding enemies.  Not the jumping between platforms.

DKC has no means of attack other than jumping on top of the enemy 90% of the time.  It is also a pretty straight forward left to right scroller with a goal of getting to the end of the stage.  Not so in Metroid.  It is a very different game, and to imply they are both equally platformers is disingenuous at best.



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curl-6 said:

And many of the items in Zelda revolve around shooting; slingshot, bow, hookshot, boomerang...

Platforming is just a means to an end in Metroid, like shooting in Zelda. The real focus is exploration.


The focus is exploration and platforming. In Zelda, you shoot as an option for combat. You don't need tact to use them and they are primerily there to diversify and embelish combat or an element to solve arbitrary puzzles. Platforming is literally integral to the entire world design of every single Metroid game. The maps in every Metroid game are designed around a complex system of precise platforming. Platforming dictates nearly everything you do in Metroid. Shooting dictates a tiny fraction of what you do in Zelda. And even then, I would not consider the boomerang or the hookshot shooting, nor would I consider anything you do while locked on shooting. It's just a ranged combat option with different effects if you're not skillfully aiming in real time.

Again, that's like saying platforming is just a means to an end in Mario. You're stretching.



spemanig said:
curl-6 said:

And many of the items in Zelda revolve around shooting; slingshot, bow, hookshot, boomerang...

Platforming is just a means to an end in Metroid, like shooting in Zelda. The real focus is exploration.


The focus is exploration and platforming. In Zelda, you shoot as an option for combat. You don't need tact to use them and they are primerily there to diversify and embelish combat or an element to solve arbitrary puzzles. Platforming is literally integral to the entire world design of every single Metroid game. The maps in every Metroid game are designed around a complex system of precise platforming. Platforming dictates nearly everything you do in Metroid. Shooting dictates a tiny fraction of what you do in Zelda. And even then, I would not consider the boomerang or the hookshot shooting, nor would I consider anything you do while locked on shooting. It's just a ranged combat option with different effects if you're not skillfully aiming in real time.

Again, that's like saying platforming is just a means to an end in Mario. You're stretching.

No they're not; precision is rarely rerquired, nor is timing, because it's simply a means of traversal, not the centrepiece of gameplay that it is in Mario, where timing and precision are key.



theRepublic said:

As does almost every other 2D game.  That does not make all of them primarily platformers though.

http://www.nesmaps.com/maps/Metroid/Brinstar.html

Look how simple the placement of platforms is.  The challenge is in exploration, and attacking and avoiding enemies.  Not the jumping between platforms.

DKC has no means of attack other than jumping on top of the enemy 90% of the time.  It is also a pretty straight forward left to right scroller with a goal of getting to the end of the stage.  Not so in Metroid.  It is a very different game, and to imply they are both equally platformers is disingenuous at best.


Of course it does. If a 2D game didn't want to be a platformer, they didn't need to be. There were other options. Beat em ups. RPGs. Zelda 2 wasn't a 2D platformer, yet had plenty of exploration and sidescrolling combat. All those 2D games were platformers because they wanted to be platformers.

Just because platforming is the only genre that DKC can identify with doesn't mean that it's more of a platformer than Metroid. They are both equally platformers. Metroid just has more genres to define it that Country does. The challenge in Metroid is platforming, and the reward is exploration. Most enemies in Metroid are obstacles or tools for platforming. Most of the enemies in Metroid are easy to kill. Doesn't make stop it from being an action game. 

See? I'm repeating myself again. Metroid combines the platforming and linearity of Mario with the action and exploration of Zelda. Obviously DKC and Metroid are differnet games. Different platforming games. DKC is a platformer that focuses on beating levels while Metroid is a platformer that focuses on exploring a world. Just like Portal is an FPS that focuses on solving puzzles while Call of Duty is an FPS that focuses on killing for funzies.