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bouzane said:
Game_God said:
naruball said:
Game_God said:
A console life span is in general = 6 years.
To play on-line you pay a yearly $50 internet fee, X 6 years= $300.
Games are about $20 cheaper on PC, say you buy 4 games a year X6 years= 24 games @ $20 cheaper= $480 saved.
With the money you save on internet & games alone you can build yourself a $800 rig!
Not to speak of all the extra stuff you can do with a PC...
Any questions?


Oh, just a few

1. Will Sony come and knock on my door now that the ps3 has been in the market for over 6 years? Or have they already come? Why are developers still releasing games for ps3 in 2015 if it's life span is 6 years? Is someone allowed to play older games on a ps3/xb360? So, could someone keep playing video games for a decade if he manages to hide from people who want to take his console back?

2. I've had a ps3 and a vita for years and never paid for online. Strange. I've been a ps+ member since it came out for the games it offers. Does that mean that if I buy a ps4 I have to also pay a $50 fee for online and get no games? What if I find better deals? Will I still have to pay $300? What if I quit gaming in 3 years? Is that $300 a final number? Seems so.

3. I get most of my games either through ps+ or ps+ sales, which are pretty much as good or better than steam sales. Does that mean I'm still losing money? What if I buy used that Steam doesn't offer?

4. Based on your points, I saved 0 money, I paid extra for windows, antivirus, and a gamepad. I have -$150 for that $800 rig you're talking about.

Not interested in the extra stuff, since I have a laptop for that.

You read what was in your mind, not what I wrote...

The topic is building a PC that outperforms a PS4/X1, so all your PS3 comments... I rest my case.

About the price of the games, one can only compare prices of new games on launch, I've seen people arguing about 2nd hand market, wich is not a valid comparison, if I find an idiot that sells me his Steam account with 100 games for $10 what does it prove? Marcket prices of new games is the only way to go.

When you annalyse patterns you have to evaluate averages & the most common behaviour, not the minority & unpredictable cases. There is always the story of that guy or the other.

What I wrote remains valid, that 6 years life span rant of yours must have been some king of irony I presume... I still play my original GameBoy, SNES, N64, Dreamcast & on & on...


I hope you realize the irony of completely dismissing anything but brand new full priced games then immediately stating you must focus on the average consumer while the definition of the average consumer is flooding Steam as part of a record breaking sale. Sizeable discounts as well as the second hand market and pretty much everything else you dismiss are indeed factors worth one's consideration when comparing consoles to PCs. Personally, I got back into PC gaming after a prolonged absense caused by the PS2 / PSP and price was probably the biggest factor.


My dear friend, you too read what was in your mind, where do I speak of the average consumer???

I do speak of averages, what do you want to compare if you focus on exceptions & anecdotical punctual stories???

If you want to compare, you can only scrutinize the marcket prices of new hardware & software, otherwise I can add all the variables I want in the equation, like do you know how easy it is to download pirated stuff on a PC? Games, movies, music for free all things you can not do with a console, did I mention that you can make your living out of a PC, you can program, stream sexy of yourself shows if you want, etc.  all things that you can't do on a console!!!

The OP is clear, a PC that can give a run to PS4 or X1 for the same price!!!

It's possible, I just added the real costs of a gaming console compared to a gaming PC, since the OP forgot those: cost of software & cost of online playing. Some people in here were outraged that I only considered a 6 years period to do that analyse or 4 games a year! I just did the calculation for 6 years because it's about the life cycle expectancy of a console before the new model comes out, but by all means let's take 10 years & say that an average gamer buys 10 games a year, it only furthers my point: 10 years X $50 on-line fee = $500, $20 of price difference X 10/year = $200, $200/year X 10 years of use = $2000!

There you have it, for a period of 10 years gaming on PS4 or a PC equivalent, you'll spend more $2500 on the PS4! Did I mention that the PC has no backward compability problem? I rest my case, happy new year!



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n29CicBxZuw

01001011 01101001 01110011 01110011 00100000 01101101 01111001 00100000 01110011 01101000 01101001 01101110 01111001 00100000 01101101 01100101 01110100 01100001 01101100 00100000 01100001 01110011 01110011 00100001

Should have taken the price of Windows 8 off the total...there aren't that many people daft enough to actually pay for the thing when torrents are available lol



snowdog said:
Should have taken the price of Windows 8 off the total...there aren't that many people daft enough to actually pay for the thing when torrents are available lol


I disagree with you, you have to include all the legal stuff you need to have a working system! An OS is part of it & since for gaming Linux is not very viable, Windows is the way to go, I would just say that Windows 7 is cheaper & suits perfectly gaming use.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n29CicBxZuw

01001011 01101001 01110011 01110011 00100000 01101101 01111001 00100000 01110011 01101000 01101001 01101110 01111001 00100000 01101101 01100101 01110100 01100001 01101100 00100000 01100001 01110011 01110011 00100001

Game_God said:
bouzane said:
Game_God said:

You read what was in your mind, not what I wrote...

The topic is building a PC that outperforms a PS4/X1, so all your PS3 comments... I rest my case.

About the price of the games, one can only compare prices of new games on launch, I've seen people arguing about 2nd hand market, wich is not a valid comparison, if I find an idiot that sells me his Steam account with 100 games for $10 what does it prove? Marcket prices of new games is the only way to go.

When you annalyse patterns you have to evaluate averages & the most common behaviour, not the minority & unpredictable cases. There is always the story of that guy or the other.

What I wrote remains valid, that 6 years life span rant of yours must have been some king of irony I presume... I still play my original GameBoy, SNES, N64, Dreamcast & on & on...


I hope you realize the irony of completely dismissing anything but brand new full priced games then immediately stating you must focus on the average consumer while the definition of the average consumer is flooding Steam as part of a record breaking sale. Sizeable discounts as well as the second hand market and pretty much everything else you dismiss are indeed factors worth one's consideration when comparing consoles to PCs. Personally, I got back into PC gaming after a prolonged absense caused by the PS2 / PSP and price was probably the biggest factor.


My dear friend, you too read what was in your mind, where do I speak of the average consumer???

I do speak of averages, what do you want to compare if you focus on exceptions & anecdotical punctual stories???

If you want to compare, you can only scrutinize the marcket prices of new hardware & software, otherwise I can add all the variables I want in the equation, like do you know how easy it is to download pirated stuff on a PC? Games, movies, music for free all things you can not do with a console, did I mention that you can make your living out of a PC, you can program, stream sexy of yourself shows if you want, etc.  all things that you can't do on a console!!!

The OP is clear, a PC that can give a run to PS4 or X1 for the same price!!!

It's possible, I just added the real costs of a gaming console compared to a gaming PC, since the OP forgot those: cost of software & cost of online playing. Some people in here were outraged that I only considered a 6 years period to do that analyse or 4 games a year! I just did the calculation for 6 years because it's about the life cycle expectancy of a console before the new model comes out, but by all means let's take 10 years & say that an average gamer buys 10 games a year, it only furthers my point: 10 years X $50 on-line fee = $500, $20 of price difference X 10/year = $200, $200/year X 10 years of use = $2000!

There you have it, for a period of 10 years gaming on PS4 or a PC equivalent, you'll spend more $2500 on the PS4! Did I mention that the PC has no backward compability problem? I rest my case, happy new year!


"My dear friend, you too read what was in your mind, where do I speak of the average consumer???"

Who are you referring to with the following quote if not the average consumer?

"When you annalyse patterns you have to evaluate averages & the most common behaviour, not the minority & unpredictable cases."

Do I have to quote you verbatim because I didn't think that was necessary?

"I do speak of averages, what do you want to compare if you focus on exceptions & anecdotical punctual stories???"

Did you even read my post? Steam represents the average consumer, not "exceptions & anecdotical punctual stories". There are currently eight million people online as I type this participating in the holiday sale. Nobody is buying anything at full price on the largest digital distribution service available on PC, this is the reality of the situation.



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S.T.A.G.E. said:
sc94597 said:
S.T.A.G.E. said:
sc94597 said:
S.T.A.G.E. said:
sc94597 said:

Hes right, if you want to look at true value its $400 and declining by the years. With the Kinect its $500. The Kinect has nothing to do with PC gaming outside of being an add on, so if you're going to compare value for value its $400 or less until January 3rd and even by next year Microsoft will most likely drop the price again being that they are losing. The PS4 will stay at a solid $400 and both console prices will decline. 

If we want to look at true value we can include the 100s of things a PC has thar is not relevant to gaming but is included in the package. There was no kinectless sku back when this article was written. If you wanted to buy an Xbone you had to spend approximately $550. Just because it had hardware nobody wanted is no excuse. The same can be said with the extra features PCs have.

No. Consoles don't need to prove themselves PC gaming, they only hold them back (in terms of ports) since console gamers pay for the major AAA iterations that hit PC and they are made for consoles with lesser graphics. They live a simple existence where you can just pick up and play games simply and enjoy a unified OS made for gaming and multimedia. PC's have gained a lot of ground that the lost at the beginning of last gen through Valve and because of that people can finally show what PC has to offer. Regardless of the sales of the Xbox One at launch we're talking about base price based on parts. The Kinect is not a part of it even though I understand your point. Now that Microsoft stopped forcing it upon people there is a proper competitive price with the PS4. Between October to January 3 the Xbox One was $400-350.....so show me a high powered PC that can be put together for those prices even at 900p on NVidia or AMD. The PS4 is the same price. 

$450 seems about the cheapest for a PC that can perform as well as the PS4 right now. 

http://www.reddit.com/r/PCMasterRace/wiki/builds

Look at the next-gen crusher option. It is priced at $376 without the OS and Mouse+Keyboard. One can find an OS easily for about $40 (or less with work) and a mouse + keyboard that is decent for $30. That brings the total price after tax to $446 (no tax if you order from a company that isn't in your state in the U.S.) A console will cost about $428 in my state (7% sales tax.) That is a $18 difference, assuming no rebates. 

As for capabilities, the graphics card will be able to play AC Unity at high 1080p or ultra 900p @ 30fps and 26-30fps respectively. It might need a little bit extra ram, but since the card has 2gb VRAM, and the most I've experienced my system ram being used by modern games is about 2.5 gb, I think it would get by with only 4gb system ram for at least 5 years or so.  Remember AC Unity has drops on Xbone and especially PS4 at 900p as well. 

Interesting. Now in the spirit of all things PC master race how do you get average consumers who like console games to like PC exclusives? This is where it gets interesting. Once Sony joined the industry console gaming numbers for the whole market expanded by leaps and bounds. How can PC gaming achieve this so console gaming loses popularity and consoles find a need compete with PC rather than just sharing some ports. We've all seen it...Gabe Newell is out to prove that PC can pull off the console experience. It probably can....but for some reason its just not catching on like its supposed to. Again...social issue. As I said...once a console gamer who goes to PC gets the bug...they will eventually start upgrading the hardware. They'll enjoy all that valve can offer and they'll start investing in their rig. The average PC replacement time is 3.5 years (you can actually look that up)....while a consoles is six to ten years....so on average...you're actually paying double (And sometimes even triple the cost )within a lifetime of a consoles lifespan in upgrades as well as replacing the whole system sometimes. I don't know one core PC gamer who isn't on top of their hardware like a car enthusiast is to his car.

As I said. PC maintence > Games. The major reason why the games are cheaper too compared to consoles is because 9/10 you cant buy physical. Brick and mortar mostly dont support it. Kudos to Best Buy for trying harder than Gamestop though. Gamestop gave up because they cant resell it.  They probably werent selling many non-WOW games for PC either. 

As for exclusives. A lot of PC gamers boast about PC exclusives, but they love games like Halo, Gears, Uncharted, Mario, and more and i've even heard many of them get frustrated because they wished exclusives were all on PC. Of course they would. Console gamers wont complain if they get PC exclusives, but they aren't demanding it like PC gamers demand console exclusives.


Well the average replacement time is 3.5 years beacuse PC gamers have the option, not because they need to upgrade every 3.5 years. Console gamers don't have the upgrade option, and therefore must stay with the same console for 6-10 years. That is why console gamers are so excited when a new console is released. For at least the last 3 years of their platform they've been waiting for an upgrade. That doesn't mean a PC gamer can't keep their PC for 6 years and play the games they want on it. Many PC gamers do accomplish that. It just means that they wish to upgrade and do so because it is an option a console gamer doesn't have. I'm a PC gamer who never is an enthusiast. The last PC I built was in 2008, and then I built my new one this year (I bought a laptop that could play games in between.) My PC's have always been mid-end. The first card for my 2008 PC was a 8600gt, and the last card was a 9800gt (when it was outdated.) I played games on that PC for 5 years. This year I decided I wanted an upgrade. My card is a r9 280x, and my PC cost me $500. I've never met many PC gamers, but the ones I have met don't spend more than $800 on their PC. Now I do plan to upgrade my processor, but I bought a cheap processor in the first place ($55 G3258, cost $100 for it and my z97 motherboard.) 

As for exclusives, the same is entirely true for console gamers. There are Sony gamers who want to play Zelda, Mario, and Metroid. There are Nintendo gamers who want to play Uncharted, The Last of Us, and Ratchet and Clank. Exclusives are found on all platforms. For PC gamers you have exclusives like Starcraft, DOTA, WoW, etc, etc to consider. And there are console gamers who would like to play those games as well (if they have a PC for those games, shouldn't that cost of their PC be added to their gaming budget?) 



Ruler said:
I havent made an argument on the article itself so i want to bring my take on it, gamestops test is stupid at so many levels

- xbox one costs now 350$ and 400$ cost the stronger console in the first place the ps4. They simple took the x1 as ground base for arguing about console and pc spec despite everyone knew that x1 was more expensive due to the kinect. They clearly favored the x1 here because it was more expensive and was weaker than the ps4 in order for the pc to look good. Its a dirty play

- they didnt include a blue ray drive. Its a necessity also for pc gaming as all the older games are only available as cd and dvd releases.

- just because the ps4 and x1 are locked at 30 frames doesnt mean they cant do more. In assassins creed 4 its obvious that the ps4 is equal to performance to the amd rig. The ps4 could equally hit 42 frames per second @1080p but the developers locked it 30 to reduce any huge frame rate drops and 30 and 60 frames are the most efficient rates. 40 isnt looking so good i have read somewhere.

-So basically you can say the amd pc is a bit stronger on more optimized games for dual cores but the ps4 still has 8 cores and 8gb gddr5 ram. In later games you will clearly see the advantages as more of these stuff is utilized.

- and while this pc has some better performance and frame rate there is till a difference between reality and on paper. Reality is on the pc you will sit in-front of the monitor and see every little complaints you will encounter. No or less anti aliasing will be more visible than on consoles, lower resolutions and frame rates as well. Of course you can plug a controllers to play it on the TV as gamespot suggested but it isnt always optimized. The hud system for example is a huge issue if you want to play it far away like in console gaming.

= so yeah in the end the pc costs you 200 bucks more just in order to get the same performance as on the strongest console , like i said they forgot to count a blue ray player which makes it 200.
And plus it isnt as well optimized and great of an experience as playing on the consoles as i mentioned.

- Xbox One costs $350 temporarily. Its real price is $400. And remember to add tax (which you can avoid with buying PC parts online.)

- Yet in Assasin's Creed Unity PS4 drops to 18 fps and maxes at 30fps. For next generation games the PS4 is a low-mid ranged PC build that has the advantage of optimization. 40 fps is fine if you use V-Sync (or the new synchronization methods.) V-sync is something consoles don't have. 

- All current AMD processors have more four cores/threads or more, with vastly higher IPC than the Jaguar and Xbone cpus. Don't even think about comparing CPU speed. The next gen consoles are pathetic in that area. Having 8 threads won't change this. Especially when there are plenty of cheap AMD CPU's with 6 threads, and games have just started to utilize more than two threads. 

You don't need a Bluray player if you're going to be using it for older dvd/cd games. A $10 external DVD is sufficient for that. But almost all games are available for download anyway. I can't think of a single game you can't find on GOG or Steam that has been released in the last 15 years that you need to buy in disc format. This is a really odd and deceptive argument here. I can't help but think it is you showing intellectual dishonesty. 

- You can always play PC on your TV. In fact I play mine on my TV more than my monitor. My 55 inch TV that is about 5 feet away from me tends to show off blemishes more than my 22 inch monitor two feet away from me though. Plus you can actually play at 1080p resolutions for all games with the comparable cards. On consoles you are stuck with 900p or even slightly more than 720p for some games. 

- No it doesn't. It costs just about the same price today. I already showed previously in this thread that you can have a fully functioning PC for $450 that plays games at the same performance (if not slightly better) as a PS4, and allows you more versatility with framerate and resolution options. 



z101 said:
Consoles have higher game prices, online play cost extra money too (on PS4, XOne), even a mid range gaming PC has better graphics than current gen consoles and a PC is more flexible.

Of course you can get old games cheap for consoles but that is even more true for PC.


The reason why its higher priced to buy a game on a console is because of the follow concerning high profile multiplts.

1) Most high profile multiplats are pandering to the console audience because they are the majority who actually pay for them (which is why the franchises have become so big) and also because they have to make their money back for physical copies.

2) On PC you get a digital copy of the game and its riddled with DRM these days. They are throwing you guys a bone. We have to depend on sales and the used market, which is perfectly fine seeing that we console gamers sales are responsible for the quality of multiplats you've become accustomed to.



generic-user-1 said:
Mr.Playstation said:

In my opinion this attempt shows that PCs cannot compare to consoles in terms of Price to Power ratio.

Article: http://www.gamespot.com/articles/can-we-build-a-gaming-pc-on-a-console-budget/1100-6418829/


the article is 8 months old...  and the people dont know anything about pc it seems... windows 8 for 99$ are they insane?

But...

http://www.amazon.com/Microsoft-Windows-8-1-Full-Version/dp/B00EDSI7QO/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1420054701&sr=8-1&keywords=WINDOWS+8



I am the Playstation Avenger.

   

adriane23 said:
generic-user-1 said:
Mr.Playstation said:

In my opinion this attempt shows that PCs cannot compare to consoles in terms of Price to Power ratio.

Article: http://www.gamespot.com/articles/can-we-build-a-gaming-pc-on-a-console-budget/1100-6418829/


the article is 8 months old...  and the people dont know anything about pc it seems... windows 8 for 99$ are they insane?

But...

http://www.amazon.com/Microsoft-Windows-8-1-Full-Version/dp/B00EDSI7QO/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1420054701&sr=8-1&keywords=WINDOWS+8

thats strange, you can get it in europe for 40...