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Forums - Nintendo Discussion - Miyamoto: 'What can games learn from film? Nothing'

curl-6 said:
KLAMarine said:

I ask because I think some people in this thread have read the title of the article and the title of the thread but not the actual article itself. If one does so, they would find that Miyamoto did NOT say "games have nothing to learn from film".

Yeah, the thread title was designed to incite a Nintendo haters convention.

Click bait. Some people bit.



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t3mporary_126 said:
It makes me wonder how the story is even made in Pikmin orMario 3D World. With Miyamoto's focus on gameplay first and story as an after thought, i still found the narrative and cutscenes in 3D World and all Pikmin games pretty well made. I especially love 3D World's intro and credits cutscene. There's a potential Tom and Jerry series there.

I believe this is what Miyamoto meant with his comment. That the game should be designed around gameplay first (preferably something novel), then develop a story around it that fleshes it out. Not develop a storyboard, then shoehorn into it whatever gameplay elements are selling well at the moment.



pokoko said:

Nintendo's arrogance amazes me. They look around at all these people who are fucking ENJOYING THEMSELVES playing other types of games and they act like somehow everyone is doing it wrong. It's not wrong if they're having fun, Nintendo. It's just you who are narrow-minded. I'm really starting to dislike Nintendo; not because of their games but because of their attitude.

See this is why Miyamoto should keep his opinion to himself. Although I enjoy Nintendo games that have very little narrative, I understand that other people enjoy games that focus much more on narrative as well as gameplay. 

Even if Miyamoto is being honest in that interview, he should understand that he's a top Nintendo developer and what he says could reflect all of Nintendo's development staff. Even those that don't necessarily agree with him (Intelligent System and Monolith Soft to name a few) will be judged by this statement.

I also understand that this may not be a big deal since all of this probably PR. But as a Nintendo fan, I wish Miyamoto would stop being so honest or blunt and have a little bit of courtesy for the competition.

Edit (to those who think the thread title is misleading or there is a lack of context): I do think the thread title is misleading but I read the entire article and it doesn't justify how Miyamoto labeled other people's game as "boring."



the_dengle said:

 

pokoko said:

There we have it. This is why I find Nintendo boring. This is why I abandoned Nintendo consoles and never looked back. They leave my imagination drifting and disengaged. I grew up with reading as a hobby, with narrative and storytelling always close at hand; a typical Nintendo game, to me, is devoid of soul and lacking in magic. There is no depth, nothing to entangle you in that world. It's a flat, uninspiring, and static experience for me.

I don't know what a "typical Nintendo game" is, because as far as I can see they have an extremely diverse selection of games. You can easily avoid the "typical" games while enjoying the meatier ones. You don't have to buy Nintendo consoles or play their games, but if you think they all follow the Miyamoto Creed of Absolute Minimum Narrative, you're mistaken. Even Miyamoto's own games wind up with great stories somehow, especially Pikmin. And I'll take Zelda games with their extremely subtle and powerful themes over the supposedly great but ultimately bland or downright poor storytelling found in most cinematic games.

There are a hell of a lost more Mario based games than Zelda based games from Nintendo.  In terms of complex characters and storytelling, I don't see all that much diversity.  Also, I said nothing about cinematic games, as I'm not really sure what that means, but I did give several examples of games with excellent storytelling and gameplay, which I'll take over game-play alone any day of the week.  A lot of people in this thread seem to be trying to build a false dichotomy, where you can only have a good narrative with interesting characters OR you can have solid game-play.  That is obviously not true and many, many games exist as proof.

Regardless, what games Nintendo makes aren't the point.  Rather, it's that Nintendo executives feel the need to crap all over other types of games.  



I can enjoy a great story in games, but gameplay is always the most important thing. If the gameplay is bad, then the story doesn't matter...



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Miyamoto, I agree and disagree this time. Most of what Miyamoto said are valid points. The fact that the says we need more children derives from the idea that children are the most creative as opposed to adults, and I know there are boundaries there as well but children aren't afraid to be different unless they've been told that it has to be done "this way" and ultimately, that shaves the creative block.

However, people are looking more and more to find other ways of experiencing stories other than film. Games offer an interactive way to enjoy stories. I understand Miyamoto, from a standpoint, but he seems a bit biased. As a game designer who develops games that have little to no story, with the exception of Zelda which isn't even all Miyamoto's doing. Games like Mario and Pikmin don't require such stories to be enjoyed as they're games that are enjoyed through playing it. Saying that wanting to create stories that have an impact is deprecated or not embraced is a little unsettling to me. People have stories that they want to tell and not always can they be expressed via jumping on shrooms and yelling "wa-hoo!". I feel very deeply about this because I want collaboratively make a game that is impactful sometime in the future while also maintaining core gameplay elements.

One thing that makes Mario so different, and for what I give Miyamoto and his teams respect, is that the gameplay is non-linear, and was non linear for the time that the games arrived. Joy was expressed through soaring and charming visuals. But, everyone has a story. To restrict that story to a specific type of media crushes the creative process. I'm not saying that Miyamoto has said this directly but I'd have to agree to disagree with the statement that is the title of this article.



pokoko said:

Rather, it's that Nintendo executives feel the need to crap all over other types of games.  

When does this happen exactly?



ClassicGamingWizzz said:
IIIIITHE1IIIII said:
KLAMarine said:
ClassicGamingWizzz said:
Arrogant and closed minded.

Imagine a world where games never had a story, well developed characters , only gameplay ... what a boring medium

Why do you say this?


I guess he prefers to introduce himself before he makes a statement.

I feel so sorry for not agreeing with THE GOD OF VIDEOGAMES when he say things like;

" These younger game creators, they want to be recognised,” he sighs. “They want to tell stories that will touch people’s hearts. And while I understand that desire, the trend worries me."

I guess i am the one  Arrogant and closed minded for liking the industry as it is with games of all tastes where people can make a game with an amazing story.

Miyamoto expressed a concern with video games trending towards being more cinematic, saying he finds this development boring.

You implied that Nintendo games never have a good story or well-developed characters, and now you're doing it again.

 

At least you got his title right.



Ljink96 said:
However, people are looking more and more to find other ways of experiencing stories other than film.

I think that is sort of the point. As extra credits said "movies will always be better at being cinematic than games" but that doesn't mean games should stay away from story. It just means that games should lean on their own strengths instead of piggybacking off of a more establish medium. Ignoring all of the wonderful tools that you are given with games, like the ability to put the player within the story, is disappointing, and whenever I play a game that feels the need to make me a passive observer in a story, instead of feeling like a part of the world, I am disappointed. 

“When you play a game, one moment you’re just controlling it and then suddenly you feel you’re in its world,” he says. “And that’s something you cannot experience through film or literature. It’s a completely unique experience.”

Miyamoto wants games that put players in the world, and while he doesn't personally trend towards making heavily cinematic experiences, I don't believe that he wants us to do away with them. Developers just need to use the tools they have been given instead of trying to make the square peg (cinema) fit into the round hole (games). 

Narrative and gameplay can be mixed to great effect as long as the developer remembers that is making a game and not a movie. Extra Credits have mentioned a few things about story in games: a) Often the director of the story wishes they were making cinema and b) Writing and gameplay creation are two separate things, which need more interplay to create a strongly interwoven story.



SanAndreasX said:

He's exactly right on this one. The industry is loaded with wannabe filmmakers and game companies that wish they were movie companies *cough*Ubisoft*cough* They should go make movies if that's the way they feel about it, but the fact is, if their movies were written like their games, they'd be sodomized by film critics.