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Forums - Gaming Discussion - Is this Gen of Consoles just WEAK?

Landguy said:


I get what you said, but the problem ( a little bit) with the idea that the GPU is going to be better optomized over time is that these are not new GPUs either.  They are mostly off the shelf parts.  They are using gpu's and the driver sets from 2-3 years ago that have been modded for these systems.  It is not something new to program for and really learn how to use.  Can they improve some over time?  Yes, but the level of improvement we saw last gen from year 1 to year 3 was dramatic.  It would be extremely odd that developers simply can't figure out this gens cpu/GPU's faster.  With the scrutiny being made on every releases  resolution and framerate, developers are already maxing out what can be done.  By the end of 2016, I would be surprised if any game is taking "better advantage" of the systems than they do by march/june of this coming year.  

Actually the GPUs are fairly new ... The microarchitecture is only just above 1 year old and they weren't very common before in the PC space either up until AMD Hawaii/Tonga so there's a lot of potential improvements with more developers getting the newer tools and equipments ... 



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curl-6 said:

The pic on the right is still very clearly far behind PS3 standards.

And it's not just SD to HD, we went from barely any shaders at all with PS2 to fully programmable shaders with PS3. 

The PS2 did have programmable shaders sooo ... 



Our eyes have a limitation and current console is getting closer and closer to that limitation.

Apple with retina display as already achieve the best display to the maximum limitation of our eyes.

Stop expecting innovation in graphic, it's game play and new experience that game developer must achieve.

Some of this year best games are not AAA title but indie game that can run on all three platform.



SvennoJ said:
d21lewis said:

The good stuff is coming. I know it is and I'm looking forward to it but right now, I'm still disappointed. I guess last gen just spoiled me. The graphics were superb, the online was fresh (to me!), web browsers, Achievements, saving gameplay, Netflix, Cross Buy, touch screens, motion controls, 3D. It was a revolution. This gen, we get Share Play, Virtual Reality, Game Stream (twitch, Ustream), and Game DVR. Wow.

Yet all those things you mentioned weren't there or not all that good in the first year...
Online was a nightmare for me the first year, echos in the 360 headset, incompatible NAT failures all the time. It was worse for me than on XBox the first year. Graphics were a mixed bag year one with also a lot of cross gen titles just marginally looking better. Actually the HD upgrade of Burnout revenge was worse on 360 (Blasphemy!! I played B3 until the servers were taken down!!). It came out so dark that half the track was invisible in places. All the other features came much later during the gen.

How do you know VR is weak? Seems more exciting to me than motion controls. Seems VR could be a revolution in game immersion. Plus who knows what else might come up this gen. We're still 3 weeks short of the first year of ps4, xb1 a bit more. Plus they're both still adding ps3 and 360 functionality for now.

The simple addition of a screenshot button is getting a lot of use by me already. So easy to show something to someone else. Take a game screenshot, or open a website and send a screenshot. Picture is worth a thousand words. No more trying to explain how to do something, press a button, send a picture without ever having to leave the game. Share play will expand on that. People seem to forget that the primary reason for that was so you can get help or help someone else get past a difficult part.
Game streams have already sold me on and kept me away from a few games. Much more honest than bullshots and hyperbole reviews. With most games leaking early you can usually find someone streaming a new game on ps live.

Revolutions don't happen overnight, at least not in gaming.


The part I bolded was just copy/pasted from some other guy's post.  I was just being cheeky.  I was actually one of the guys that planned on buying that Sony personal 3D viewer for $800 on day one.  It wasn't until the thing got bad reviews that I changed my mind.  I'm actually quite excited about VR headsets.  I have been for years and I think that's going to be phenomenal if it works like I expect it to.

You said they're still adding Xbox 360 and PS3 funtionality, now.  I know.  Believe me, I know.  I was kinda shocked when I couldn't even use my PS4 for Youtube or porn!  The other things we did get don't really get a lot of use by me, personally.  The game DVR only records a short amount of gameplay.  I used to yell "Xbox, record that!" all the time when I did something awesome.  The clips were always so short that I just didn't care anymore.  It never got the part that I wanted.  I used to record my fights on Super Street Fighter 4 (360) all the time.  Then I realized that I'd rather play a game than watch a game.  And on the PS4 I used the share button (which was more convenient than the ability some 7th gen games like PAIN that allowed you to put gameplay on Youtube) and I'd get muddy screenshots on my Twitter feed.  People would just ask "What game was that?".  Made me feel kinda dorky to my non-gaming fan.  It gave me the same feeling as sharing my Achievements etc.  on Xbox 360 when it had a Twitter app.  

I watched a few game streams, especially when the new consoles released (Twitch was also available last gen but not easily done by the average gamer).  They actually made me stay away from Dead Rising 3 and Ryse because the games looked bad on the streams and the person I watched sucked as a game.  It wasn't until I got Ryse for like $30 and played the demo for DR3 that I realized the games looked great.

 

This post is getting long so I'll get to the point:  The guy above me said we're reaching the limits of what the eye can see.  He's right. To me, the fake digital fire from a Dreamcast game like Illbleed or Uncharted 3 looks like real fire.  They cheated to get the effect but, to my eyes, it still looks like real fire.  Let's say on the PS4/Xbox One, that fire is 100% real fire produced in real time using a ton of processing power.  To me, it still just looks like fire.  The calculations being done don't enhance the experience.  Seeing an island off in the distance in Wind Waker and knowing it's just a 2D island doesn't take away from the effect.  If it were a 100% 3D island won't matter because it's still off in the distance and it still doesn't effect the gameplay.

I'm from a generation where they would show the revelation before the console even released.  We were seeing the realistic punches from FIght Night Round 3 before the console hit the market.  We were seeing Gamertags at E3 (remember Velocity girl?) before the console hit the market.  We saw Pilot WIngs and F-Zero.  We saw the analog stick.  On the first day, we were wowed and the software wasn't released without a killer app on day one.

I appreciate Wii U's off TV play.  I love the Xbox One's snap feature.  I like how the PS4 installs games in no time and offers great performance.  I know the big stuff is coming.  It's just that it's taking so long for me to be wowed and I love to be wowed!  When you got a Wii , the motion controls wowed you the first time you tried it.  When you got your Dreamcast, Soul Caliber blew you away at first glance.  Same for N64. Same for SNES and Genesis.  The justification was always there at launch.  With the 8th gen consoles, it seems like we got hardware first and justification later.



not yet but they will appear outdated sooner than PS3 and 360 did.



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GamechaserBE said:
GTAexpert said:
GamechaserBE said:
I really enjoyed resistance and Killzone shadowfall not :(. That is the big difference with last gen, so much time spend on graphics and less on making the game fun.

this generation games are trying to catch up on PC games and it also push me in the direction of becoming a pc gamer...

Some games can have both awesome graphics and gameplay, like Infamous: Second Son and Driveclub.

I enjoyed Infamous, I even got a platinum for it (KonnichiwaBE on PSn) but after finishing it I felt a bit dissapointed because it was short and the side missions were a joke. People were hyped and excited for it especially with all those screenshots with amazing graphics but I wish they had more content in the game. If you want more content I have to buy First light :s.

Driveclub was a good example of what I meant, people were more excited for the game because of the gifs rather than what was in the game...

Infamous: Second Son is a game which warrants two playthroughs, took me about 28 hours to finish both. That is pretty good for an SP-only game.

As for Driveclub, people might have hyped it up due to the graphics, but that doesn't mean that the game is lacking in gameplay. The gameplay is awesome, one of the best in any arcade racer, and online is really fun. The game also has longevity, so you won't even have the problem with this game as you did with Infamous: Second Son.



This thread makes me feel like some old man talking about how "Back in my day, we only had radio. Then we had black and white movies with no sound. Then, we had sound. Then we had color!" To a bunch of kids that are streaming HD movies from the internet.

Just because the huge breakthroughs have been made doesn't diminish the fact that improvements are still being made. They just aren't as massive in scope. Sometimes I may seem like I don't appreciate the 8th gen but I really do. Sorry.

Now, GET OFF MY LAWN!!



d21lewis said:

This post is getting long so I'll get to the point:  The guy above me said we're reaching the limits of what the eye can see.  He's right. To me, the fake digital fire from a Dreamcast game like Illbleed or Uncharted 3 looks like real fire.  They cheated to get the effect but, to my eyes, it still looks like real fire.  Let's say on the PS4/Xbox One, that fire is 100% real fire produced in real time using a ton of processing power.  To me, it still just looks like fire.  The calculations being done don't enhance the experience.  Seeing an island off in the distance in Wind Waker and knowing it's just a 2D island doesn't take away from the effect.  If it were a 100% 3D island won't matter because it's still off in the distance and it still doesn't effect the gameplay.

I'm from a generation where they would show the revelation before the console even released.  We were seeing the realistic punches from FIght Night Round 3 before the console hit the market.  We were seeing Gamertags at E3 (remember Velocity girl?) before the console hit the market.  We saw Pilot WIngs and F-Zero.  We saw the analog stick.  On the first day, we were wowed and the software wasn't released without a killer app on day one.

I appreciate Wii U's off TV play.  I love the Xbox One's snap feature.  I like how the PS4 installs games in no time and offers great performance.  I know the big stuff is coming.  It's just that it's taking so long for me to be wowed and I love to be wowed!  When you got a Wii , the motion controls wowed you the first time you tried it.  When you got your Dreamcast, Soul Caliber blew you away at first glance.  Same for N64. Same for SNES and Genesis.  The justification was always there at launch.  With the 8th gen consoles, it seems like we got hardware first and justification later.

I don't believe we're getting near the limits of the human eye any time soon, especially with VR coming. As long as people keep complaining about the jaggies, we still have a long way to go. And sure a 2D fire bitmap looks like fire, I like Minecraft as well, yet I also enjoy a realistic version. A realistic fire fighting game with backdrafts and all could be fun. Fighting spreading fires in the ISS would be a cool challenge. Sure you can do that with 2D bitmaps like in FTL, but it would be a lot more immersive and organic when all the hot gasses are realistically simulated.

Seeing fully rendered islands in the background instead of 2D backdrops has other advantages as well. Less work for the developers. No need to add the extra artwork for different time of day and other changes when the render engine can take care of all that.

I get what you mean with killer apps. For me after doing most my gaming on ps3, the ps4 did blow me away with how smooth and fast everything operates. Especially after the WiiU launch with hours waiting for the day 1 patch and upto 30 second waits for the UI to do anything. But yes, that's just better hardware and OS. Still the games look pretty jaw dropping to me, but I'm spoiled playing on a 1080p projector. Native display res makes a big difference when you blow it up wall size, plus the sound design in KZ SF was really something new.

It has never been the launch games that persuaded me to buy a console. Crazy taxi was my Dreamcast game, ps2 can't remember, I guess it was hype, ps1 Tombraider 2, N64 I did buy for Mario 64 but disappointed me, GC can't remember, Nintendo legacy I guess, WiiU Rayman legends that then got delayed, XBox PGR, 360 first HD console, PS3 blu-ray, PS4 it's about time for an upgrade, XB1 pending.

The games that weren't possible before will come later. For me those were games like OOT, Windwaker, GTA3, Dead rising, TDU, Fallout 3. This first year is a bit lackluster. Transistor and Dark souls 2 are sitting at the top of the list for me this year, and I'm most excited to play GTA5 for the first time this fall.



fatslob-:O said:
curl-6 said:

The pic on the right is still very clearly far behind PS3 standards.

And it's not just SD to HD, we went from barely any shaders at all with PS2 to fully programmable shaders with PS3. 

The PS2 did have programmable shaders sooo ... 

Crippled, prehistoric shaders that struggled to produce even basic bumpmapping.



d21lewis said:
This thread makes me feel like some old man talking about how "Back in my day, we only had radio. Then we had black and white movies with no sound. Then, we had sound. Then we had color!" To a bunch of kids that are streaming HD movies from the internet.

Just because the huge breakthroughs have been made doesn't diminish the fact that improvements are still being made. They just aren't as massive in scope. Sometimes I may seem like I don't appreciate the 8th gen but I really do. Sorry.

Now, GET OFF MY LAWN!!

WHere's the beef?!!!

 

I agree, this topic is a new spin on an old story for gamers over 30 (or 40 like myself).  Every generation has some thing that gamers latch onto to compare the different systems.  It just so happens that there are things this gen that are extremely small that people are making the comparison on.  They really don't have much choice, as the consoles are very similar.



It is near the end of the end....