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Forums - Gaming Discussion - Is this Gen of Consoles just WEAK?

My opinion i am loving the xbox one, just like my PS4 (for now i hope). But nintendo is really lackimg to me this gen. Sucks because I am a big Nintendo fan as well. In the end its a great start to this Gen and it will only get better



PSN & XBOX GT : cutzman25

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torok said:
kristianity77 said:
The hardware isn't weak at all. Its just the same problem that everyone always picks up on every time a new generation starts. The games just dont look that much better whilst generations are crossing paths. Take last gen for example, people are saying that was a "big" difference but it most certainly didn't look like it at the start.

Take 360 for example. Go an look back at games like Call Of Duty 2, GUN, Perfect Dark Zero, King Kong, Oblivion, Far Cry Instincts....the list goes on. All of these games look absolutely horrid when compared to what came out on the system a year later. And the games that came out a year or two after that made them games look rubbish and so on and so forth.

A new generation always starts with cross gen ports, or games that look slightly better due to devs working out how to program and get the most out of the system. Its the same every single generation. Don't judge whether a console is underpowered now, ask the question again in say late 2015, early 2016 when games are released solely for this generation and with longer development times.

I don't think they are weak, and whilst its an interesting debate, you have to remember that 99.9% of people who go out and buy xbox ones and PS4s, dont care less. Do they look better than anything on the previous gen? Yes, then that keeps players happy.

 

I remeber when people dubbed the 360 as "Xbox 1.5". Now it is a "massive jump, oh my god!!". They are comparing launch visuals with eng of  gen visuals for PS360 when launch games like Resistance Fall of Man just looks horrid today.

The consoles pack a pretty good power. The GPUs are fairly strong and there's plenty of memory. The difference to high-end GPUs is just because the market changed. NVidia and ATI are having trouble pushing more power and they are following the route of super-expensive/high comsumption GPU to push a little more. If you compare a GTX 770 with a Titan, of course it loses. But compare their prices. You got double the power by several times the price. This isn't tech, it's just brute force applied to give you power at any costs. The new GTX970/980 are the first time in years that GPUs really use tech instead of brute force to get power.

A lot of points in the OP are ridiculous. About the new consoles being more powerful versions of the old ones, isn't that common? SNES vs NES, Genesis vs Master System, PS1 vs PS2 and the list goes on. They are just more powerful versions of the old ones. And that drives innovation, because games are bounded by the resources they have. And even if you want to count pure innovation, I think that live streaming and video sharing are just a massive innovation by adding more social aspects to games.

The other thing as well, is where you mention comparisons between say a GTX 770 and a Titan. A titan like you say, which is many times more expensive than a GTX 770 is undoubtably a better card.  But if you play a game, pretty much any game, on both cards and restrict the display to a 1080p screen, then the gap between the two cards is noticably smaller.  A Titan only really comes into its own at above 1080p.  Consoles don't have any need for this and this generation of machines never ever will.

Take for example a recent ish game like Bioshock Infinite.  If your playing on a 1080p screen, you can max that game out and get 60fps on both of them cards.  So when your limited by the screen your playing the games on, the top end video cards don't really have an conceivable advantages.  Both can play said game in question on the highest settings, 60fps, in 1080p.  

Basically, the GPU's in consoles to run on a 1080p screen are perfectly fine.  Yes, the arguament lies in the fact that "some" players want 60fps for everything but the reality is, is thats its rarily needed.  We've been playing 95% of 3D games on consoles at 30fps since what...1996 or so when the PS1 came out? Hasn't been a problem since then, so I dont understand the problem now.

Will a lack of 1080/60 hamper console sales this winter of titles like Far Cry 4, Dragon Age, GTA V, Assassins Creed, Bloodbourne etc etc?  Of course it won't.  99.9% of players will be too busy playing and having fun to care.



PREDICTIONS FOR END OF 2015: (Made Jan 1st 2015)

PS4 - 34M - XB1 - 21m - WII U -12M

I remember when I got a Super Nes and my mom thought Super Mario World looked just like Mario 3. I was blown away. She couldn't hear how much clearer the music was? She couldn't see how much better the animations and color was? How big the sprites were!?

I remember getting my Xbox 360 and my friends thinking Gears of War looked about the same as RE4 on the Gamecube. What the hell!? They couldn't see the awesome textures and gritty effects?

Now, I guess I've become one of them. In the past, nobody had to convince me that I was seeing a big leap in power. The games spoke for themselves. The Wii's motion controls, the Xbox 360's online, the PS3's price tag. Even the leaps from PS1 to Dreamcast to PS2 were obvious to my untrained eye. The best of the last gen easily eclipsed by what came after. I'm nearing a year with my PS4/Xbox One and I need people to tell me where the improvements are. I see the improvements but it's hard to believe that this is what I waited almost a decade for.

The good stuff is coming. I know it is and I'm looking forward to it but right now, I'm still disappointed. I guess last gen just spoiled me. The graphics were superb, the online was fresh (to me!), web browsers, Achievements, saving gameplay, Netflix, Cross Buy, touch screens, motion controls, 3D. It was a revolution. This gen, we get Share Play, Virtual Reality, Game Stream (twitch, Ustream), and Game DVR. Wow.



lol @ comparing games created on a system thats been out for 7-8 vs games created on a system thats been out for one year.Optimization anyone? Wait until the end of the gen before making these assumptions.



A good library of exclusive games and GTA VI and Elder Scrolls VI arrive before I consider a purchase a PS4. I have a dozen or so 7th gen games I need to play through first and pick up a few of the late 7th gen games like Bioshock Infinite, The Last of Us and GTA V.



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fatslob-:O said:
Landguy said:

Aren't they both basically using x86?

That's incorrect ... 

The Xbox 360's CPU is based off of one of the Power architecture family. 

The funniest thing here is people are so quick here as to point out the culprit being both of the consoles CPU being x86 as an excuse to not expect a lot of improvements overtime when people here should really be focusing on both of the console's GPU and it's ISA to really see the difference. After all, why pay attention to a component that does less than 10% of a game's workload ?

The GPU's in both consoles offer sooo many more things compared to last generation that it's not even funny. You get programmable vertex pulling which takes GPU independent rendering to the next level so that in turn dramatically reduces CPU dependence on rendering, more fixed function operations being handled in shaders which gives developers more freedom in how they program shaders, tessellation units, cache coherence for L2 cache, and they're even capable of doing a true function call too! 


I get what you said, but the problem ( a little bit) with the idea that the GPU is going to be better optomized over time is that these are not new GPUs either.  They are mostly off the shelf parts.  They are using gpu's and the driver sets from 2-3 years ago that have been modded for these systems.  It is not something new to program for and really learn how to use.  Can they improve some over time?  Yes, but the level of improvement we saw last gen from year 1 to year 3 was dramatic.  It would be extremely odd that developers simply can't figure out this gens cpu/GPU's faster.  With the scrutiny being made on every releases  resolution and framerate, developers are already maxing out what can be done.  By the end of 2016, I would be surprised if any game is taking "better advantage" of the systems than they do by march/june of this coming year.  



It is near the end of the end....

bananaking21 said:

Share Play
Virtual Reality
Game Stream (twitch, Ustream)
Game DVR


yup, PS4 is just a overpowered PS3.

I agree, these features are step ups from the PS3.  THe problem is that almost all of these features could be done on the PS3 if they wanted to take the time to do it.  Would they work as well?  probably not very well at all.  

THese features are like all other gimmicks, you can put them on or into a system, but why bother when you can add them to the new system and create the system disparity needed to make people upgrade.



It is near the end of the end....

GamechaserBE said:
GTAexpert said:

Some games can have both awesome graphics and gameplay, like Infamous: Second Son and Driveclub.

I enjoyed Infamous, I even got a platinum for it (KonnichiwaBE on PSn) but after finishing it I felt a bit dissapointed because it was short and the side missions were a joke. People were hyped and excited for it especially with all those screenshots with amazing graphics but I wish they had more content in the game. If you want more content I have to buy First light :s.

Driveclub was a good example of what I meant, people were more excited for the game because of the gifs rather than what was in the game...

You mean people that don't like track based racers were still excited by the generational leap in graphics?
The game itself is great fun, I must be close to 50 hours played by now. The 25 unique tracks are such a joy to race on, making clean runs with hyper cars is exhilirating. Yet if you don't like skill based track racing the game is not for you.

It's also the lighting that keeps the game fresh. I'm still seeing unique atmospheric conditions. It has the best night driving I have seen so far. Realistic looking road reflectors and signs, road paint, headlights reflecting in mirrors, and secondary lighting from your headlights illuminating the cars in front of you, set it apart from last gen. Plus the amount of light sources on screen is staggering.

Would it have kept me glued to the screen for 50 hours with pre-baked lighting, always the same (perfect) looking tracks? Maybe, probably not. Driving into the night in endurace races or while the sun comes up, or with heavy cloud cover with the sun peaking through now and then keeps me wondering what I'll see in the next lap. And constantly having to adjust to find the perfect braking point and apex in the different lighting conditions.

Maybe they should have delayed Infamous to add a 3rd part? It was fine for me, not too long to play again for the bad karma path. Better left wanting more than dragging on with lots of filler missions. I did kinda expect a 3rd act too, yet still spend 20 hours on it. Not bad value. Will buy the next one.



d21lewis said:

The good stuff is coming. I know it is and I'm looking forward to it but right now, I'm still disappointed. I guess last gen just spoiled me. The graphics were superb, the online was fresh (to me!), web browsers, Achievements, saving gameplay, Netflix, Cross Buy, touch screens, motion controls, 3D. It was a revolution. This gen, we get Share Play, Virtual Reality, Game Stream (twitch, Ustream), and Game DVR. Wow.

Yet all those things you mentioned weren't there or not all that good in the first year...
Online was a nightmare for me the first year, echos in the 360 headset, incompatible NAT failures all the time. It was worse for me than on XBox the first year. Graphics were a mixed bag year one with also a lot of cross gen titles just marginally looking better. Actually the HD upgrade of Burnout revenge was worse on 360. It came out so dark that half the track was invisible in places. All the other features came much later during the gen.

How do you know VR is weak? Seems more exciting to me than motion controls. Seems VR could be a revolution in game immersion. Plus who knows what else might come up this gen. We're still 3 weeks short of the first year of ps4, xb1 a bit more. Plus they're both still adding ps3 and 360 functionality for now.

The simple addition of a screenshot button is getting a lot of use by me already. So easy to show something to someone else. Take a game screenshot, or open a website and send a screenshot. Picture is worth a thousand words. No more trying to explain how to do something, press a button, send a picture without ever having to leave the game. Share play will expand on that. People seem to forget that the primary reason for that was so you can get help or help someone else get past a difficult part.
Game streams have already sold me on and kept me away from a few games. Much more honest than bullshots and hyperbole reviews. With most games leaking early you can usually find someone streaming a new game on ps live.

Revolutions don't happen overnight, at least not in gaming.



SvennoJ said:
GamechaserBE said:
GTAexpert said:

Some games can have both awesome graphics and gameplay, like Infamous: Second Son and Driveclub.

I enjoyed Infamous, I even got a platinum for it (KonnichiwaBE on PSn) but after finishing it I felt a bit dissapointed because it was short and the side missions were a joke. People were hyped and excited for it especially with all those screenshots with amazing graphics but I wish they had more content in the game. If you want more content I have to buy First light :s.

Driveclub was a good example of what I meant, people were more excited for the game because of the gifs rather than what was in the game...

You mean people that don't like track based racers were still excited by the generational leap in graphics?
The game itself is great fun, I must be close to 50 hours played by now. The 25 unique tracks are such a joy to race on, making clean runs with hyper cars is exhilirating. Yet if you don't like skill based track racing the game is not for you.

It's also the lighting that keeps the game fresh. I'm still seeing unique atmospheric conditions. It has the best night driving I have seen so far. Realistic looking road reflectors and signs, road paint, headlights reflecting in mirrors, and secondary lighting from your headlights illuminating the cars in front of you, set it apart from last gen. Plus the amount of light sources on screen is staggering.

Would it have kept me glued to the screen for 50 hours with pre-baked lighting, always the same (perfect) looking tracks? Maybe, probably not. Driving into the night in endurace races or while the sun comes up, or with heavy cloud cover with the sun peaking through now and then keeps me wondering what I'll see in the next lap. And constantly having to adjust to find the perfect braking point and apex in the different lighting conditions.

Maybe they should have delayed Infamous to add a 3rd part? It was fine for me, not too long to play again for the bad karma path. Better left wanting more than dragging on with lots of filler missions. I did kinda expect a 3rd act too, yet still spend 20 hours on it. Not bad value. Will buy the next one.

No, I am talking about people who were saying that the game will be great/amazing/one of the best games of this year based on a GIF with one car passing by an other car with very great  graphics....    I asked one of them 'what is the appeal of the game?' and I got no answer, but I know I can ask you and you can tell me why.  

I rather have devs/PR trying to answer the question 'what is the appeal of the game and why gamers should be interested for it' than saying 'It has graphics that you not have seen before'   The guys from Saints Row II did a good job with their 'would you rather' trailer..

And your comment against D21lewis is excactly what I mean with 'consoles catching up with pc'...  I also love that I can take screenshots with my PS4, and VS for PS4 looks very interesting but that is something you can do on PC for a (long) time and it does not help I am so interested in games like DaYZ and planetside 2 while I could play them on a PC...