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Forums - Gaming - DF Face-Off: Middle-earth: Shadow of Mordor (Ethomaz's Vision is Better Than Gamespot lol)

ethomaz said:

Aura7541 said:

Well that's a darn shame

Usually, adding motion blur negatively affects responsiveness in controls. It's more of a useful tool in movies hence why 24 fps doesn't look choppy. However, it is not the same when applied to video games, especially when you're interactiing with images, not watching them. Driveclub seems to be one of the exceptions since people who have tried its demos said that the controls were very responsive. However, I'm not so sure if Shadow of Mordor will be the same case.

We will neve know

The controls are fine... it didn't affect the fun playing the game on consoles.

PC seems to have better gameplay from what some guys told me but it is more because the smooth 60fps you can get than the lack of motion blur I guess.

Oh yeah, it's definitely because of 60fps that makes the PC version more responsive.

Motion blur is a good way to "disguise" 30fps, so to speak, but usually it comes at the cost of control responsiveness and makes the images look artificial. I think what makes Driveclub an exception is that it looks really realistic (especially in lighting, which is very important for implementing good motion blur) and Evolution managed to find a way to reduce latency. What I'm worried about with the console versions of Shadow of Mordor is that the controls are already less responsive at 30fps and may be further negatively affected by motion blur due to latency (unless, the devs managed to reduce the latency, too).



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ethomaz said:

 http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-2014-shadow-of-mordor-face-off

Special thanks to @globalisateur that said the game was 30fps locked while the motion blur tricked me.


Thanks!

But like you said it's also possible that some earlier versions of the game were uncapped even if some people still watched the capped game (like the gamersyde video) and still thought it was uncapped. Anyway It's the same game, but just capped. the game could run at ~35-60fps like Infamous or better like like Tomb Raider, we'll never know.

 

Launch day open world multiplat: AC4 game 900p on XB1, 1080p on PS4 with better AA (for reminder we had the glorious customized SMAA 2TX on PS4)

11 months later open world multiplat: Mordor 900p on XB1, 1080p on PS4 with better shadows & vegetations (and sometimes I noticed better textures even if DF refused to admit it).

The PS4 ~40% advantage is rouglhy the same even after 10% boost, and june SDK... 

People will say, but some games have same resolutions, yes but at launch too with for instance Fifa 14 which was perfectly identical a launch too between both consoles. Some developers aim for parity (mostly EA), but even then, they have trouble reaching it now for Fifa 15 (Suprisingly no motion blur on XB1 version) and Destiny and Minecraft, both games run with constant frame pacing issues on XB1, resulting in regular judder which should be for everyone the worst thing that could happen to those versions. 

Aren't you surprised DF never done a face-off for Minecraft? I mean, it's just the most sold game of the decenny! Now you know why.

And when DF wrote a full negative preview article almost only about the frame pacing issue of the Destiny Beta PS4 version (which have being fixed after), now this constant frame pacing issue is fully in effect in the retail XB1 version, but now "it's not a big deal" and they barely talk about only focusing about the visuals, competely ignoring the framerate constant judder.

Constant frame pacing issue is now "not a big deal" for DF? since when? I thought it was their worst ennemy in previous articles like the Destiny PS4 beta, NFS and others.

 

What people forget is that XB1's SDK improve as much as PS4's SDK. The difference is that Microsoft talk about their improvements much more that Sony which are almost completely silent about it. But we have indirect clues from developers that Sony are regularly improving their own SDK and drivers both for the CPU and GPU.

 

EDIT: About the AA, I don't think they are using FXAA, and DF never wrote as far as I know "FXAA", they just wrote "post AA". And I don't think it's pure "vaseline" either because it's somehow improving the edges notably of the sword compared to the PC version and some edges are barely touched. It could be a modern version of Quincunx, only the AMD version. Some kind of supersampled but blurry post AA, but still better somhow that FXAA, which has tons of awful artefacts not seen here. Here It's blurry, yes, but it's very clean surprinsingly notably the main characters.



Guys.

The quote trees.

By God. Kill them off.



                            

Carl2291 said:
Guys.

The quote trees.

By God. Kill them off.

I warned 'em!  Those quote trees were forged by the hands of lucifer himself!



Hiku said:

Triangulation 


Triangulation is what you do to find out where something is located (using a GPS or sextant or whatever). Triangle, in this case, is a base polygon building block and it's what Cerny was talking about.

Just a pet peeve when someone is using a completely wrong term.



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michael_stutzer said:
zero129 said:
michael_stutzer said:

Yeah, blurring the image is a sure way to understand the extra power. I always play at 480p on PC, the differences are mindblowing.

People didnt mind playing in Sub HD lastgen and 900P is a huge step up from that. And if its only about res do you think Battlefield 2 would look better then say Battlefield 4 if one was in 720P and the other in 1080P??

Soo, 900p is a huge step up but 1080p is not?

Of course it is not only about the res, it is just that you need to match the resolution of your screen first, then you care about the eye candy. If you care about your eyes anyway. 

Of course not.  You see, going from 720p to 900p is a MASSIVE 180 extra lines of resolution.  While going from 900p to 1080p is a mere 180 extra lines of resolution.  So, see, big difference.



thismeintiel said:
michael_stutzer said:
zero129 said:
michael_stutzer said:

Yeah, blurring the image is a sure way to understand the extra power. I always play at 480p on PC, the differences are mindblowing.

People didnt mind playing in Sub HD lastgen and 900P is a huge step up from that. And if its only about res do you think Battlefield 2 would look better then say Battlefield 4 if one was in 720P and the other in 1080P??

Soo, 900p is a huge step up but 1080p is not?

Of course it is not only about the res, it is just that you need to match the resolution of your screen first, then you care about the eye candy. If you care about your eyes anyway. 

Of course not.  You see, going from 720p to 900p is a MASSIVE 180 extra lines of resolution.  While going from 900p to 1080p is a mere 180 extra lines of resolution.  So, see, big difference.

Well I can't argue with math. 180p>180p.



Kerotan said:
TheAdjustmentBureau said:
So not 1080p 60fps vs 720p 30fps.

1080p vs 900p both at 30fps is better.

All in all these don't matter as I only have Xbox one as the games I like most are only in this machine. I'll pick it up after halo.

so are you just gonna leave your X1 idle while all these top class games release until halo comes along? Or did you just want to get the name of an X1 eclusive into your argument!! Either way your loss and this game will likely be much better than Halo. 


Unh. I'm currently playing forza horizon 2 and getting sunset overdrive. I like halo a lot so that game is next then ill catch up on same 3rd party games. No biggie.



zero129 said:
mornelithe said:
zero129 said:

Well then if we are going by what you are saying here since on paper if i added a new GFX card to my PC it would blow the PS4 out of the water (Even if many devs never took use of it this gen) The Ps4 is only a tiny bit more powerful then the X1 and will never look much better then it even if on paper its 40-50% more powerful, see how that works?? .

Depends on the GPU, actually.  There are already GPU's out there, that outperform the PS4/XB1 (and I mean easily), it's simply a matter of brute force with an insane resource pool, versus the finesse of direct to metal coding you get from console development.  If the hardware specs were exactly the same, yes the console version would be better, because PC API's have to cover such an expanse of hardware variation, and as a result is less hardware specific (the API isn't the only factor, there's allot of background stuff on a PC that isn't on a console, even if you've closed all programs but the game).

The question is, where does the resource pool start to overpower the direct to metal?  That's actually an interesting question.  It's quite obvious the Titan Z or R295X2 (And yes, those two cards are as obscenely expensive as you would expect from 8 and 11.5TFlop cards) easily outpace either machine, but what's the low end, I wonder?  Anyone else know?

I dont know but like i said my old HD6870 doesnt have much problems matching the PS4 on most of the big multiplat games i've tested (Accept for watchdogs but thats a piece of shit on PC anyways xD) and the PS4 is meant to be using a hd7870?? but id imagine if i added a 7870 to my old PC it would outperform the PS4 going off what my old card can do, but then i think the PS4 card is based off the mobile version?, and Mantle offers the same direct to metal access that consoles have been enjoying for so long and DirectX12 is also ment to allow the same thing so id imagine once they become more widely used by devs it will take away a lot of that advantage that the consoles have.

The GPU isn't the only thing in a computer that matters.  The CPU, the Ram, the bus speed, the HDD's etc... all important facets of a build.  The APU itself, is an interesting bit of tech.  Yes, the Kabini is aimed at notebooks and mini PC's, Temash at Tablets, and the Kyoto at Micro-servers.  But the PS4's APU is highly modified.  It has 8 ACE's, which is only available in AMD's R290+ cards.  The XB1's Jaguar is modified also, but where the PS4 put in extra ACE's and other such modules, Microsoft put in the ESRAM which takes up a shitload of die space.

Now, here's where your argument breaks down.  The HD6870 launched Oct. 22nd 2010.  You realize that's nearly 4 years worth of optimization, right?  I know allot of people forget this, but PC GPU's don't just stand still with their drivers either.  They're constantly updated.  So, wouldn't it only be fair to wait 4 years, after the PS4's API has had 4 years of refinement to be making claims about your PC matching it?

Keep in mind, I only have the slightly faster 560Ti in my machine, so I'm not hating on PC here.  But, you can't expect a modified APU that's been out for less than a year to have the same kind of API refinement as a GPU that's been out for 4 years.



zero129 said:

Accept the really is people out there that really cant tell or just dont care! shocking i know!.

Don't care... sure... even so I believe some of most doesn't care due agenda.

Can't tell... lol it is obvious not true.