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Forums - Sales - Debunking Myths Around Here: PS4 vs. Xbox One

jnemesh said:
Everyone needs to QUIT using the PS3/360 battle as an example! It's a different game than it was 8 years ago! NONE of the advantages that the PS3 had last gen, that enabled them to catch up and eventually surpass the 360 have anything whatsoever to do with where the XB1 stands or where it's going in the future!

You can debate what happened last gen until you turn blue...but it's not going to play out the same way this time guys. There is ZERO chance of the XB1 EVER taking the lead this gen. In the US or globally. The BEST that they can hope for is that they beat out the WiiU for a distant 2nd place...and even that is not assured!

How exactly did the PS3 catch up to the 360.  Was it the multiple price drops.  Was it the removal of all of the initial components within the PS3 when it wasn't selling so good so Sony could drop the price.  Was it Sony retooling the PS3 to build it cheaper, so Sony could drop the price again.

Things do not have to play out the same as last gen but to ignore obvious facts last gen seems to be short sighted.  You sound like the people who were claim the PS3 was dead during those rough years for the PS3.  Sony made many price drops to get the PS3 to a price where consumers preceived the value as acceptable.  It only takes one screw up to turn momentum.  If not for the RROD with the 360 who knows what this gen would have looked like.  Nothing is set and this gen there will be plenty of opportunities for each company to make either smart or dumb moves.



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LudicrousSpeed said:
GotBoth said:
LudicrousSpeed said:
Agree on the first one, people will buy new systems regardless of games.

The second part is silly. Games last gen "all had game breaking bugs" because of multiplatform development? Strangely, the two buggiest, crappiest sections of games I played last gen were Gears 2 (360 exclusive) and Twisted Metal (PS3 exclusive).

Hyperbole doesn't make an opinion right. Logically we all know competition makes the industry better. Look where Sony started out at launch.


How do you KNOW competition is what makes the industry better? There is no evidence to that. No study has been done.  It could be marketing or a host of other things (market research maybe) that helps in making better decisions for the future.  That is not a fact, it is a myth believed by forum gamers because all the non forum gamers i know wish the system they gamed on had all the exclusives.  So competition is some forum hope not the majority of gamers.

Who ever said it "is" what makes the industry better? Don't shift the goal posts. It can be competition and "a host of other things". I didn't say it is only competition that makes the industry better, nor did your OP.

But honestly, do you need a "study" to tell you competition is a good thing? I cannot imagine being a consumer and not knowing something so basic and fundamental.

Also no offense but the "non-forum gamers" you know sound pretty stupid, and who cares if they want all the games on their one console.

I rarely say this but I agree with you. I think it's pretty obvious this guy has absolutly no idea wtf he is talking about. He might even outdue TheDrill when it comes to rediculous and unfounded claims.



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PS4 destroying the Xbone does benefit Xbox One gamers. The way I see it at least



NobleTeam360 said:
PS4 destroying the Xbone does benefit Xbox One gamers. The way I see it at least


Yeah because it causes them to rethink the things they did, are doing, and will do. With any luck it will force them to buy great new IP's and reinvigerate the industry again.



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All Hail the Jester King. The King is back, and I am still a dirty girl prof ;)

Machiavellian said:

All those are points on top of a high price.  No exclusives that really showed why you should pay either price over a 400 dollar 360.  360 multiplats performing better than the more expensive system.  It matter not if its 500 or 600, it was still more expensive then the competition.  You had the Wii at 300 hundred with the innovative mind share at the time and you had the 360 pop out games that played better at less money (exactly what we see today but opposite).

 

The key is that as it is today, unless the tech made games look and run better, gamers really did not care if it was using a Blu-ray drive, had 4 USB ports, PS2 backward compat and other crap.  The perceived value is the same as what we see with the X1.  Gamers do not care how much other crap you throw within a console as long as the end result is better games.

If there was any true leason Sony learned from the PS3 is that start with the hardware that make games look and perfrom great on your system first, then worry about that other stuff later.  For first adopters and momentum, games are still the motivation factor in purchases and a solid price.


Gamers would not care about 500 600 if the PS3 launched first and had the games, but late release and pain in the ass development screwed it the most.  Gave 360 time to build a lead a library and with beaing one year its quality software came mosh sooner. 

PS3 fist year out sold 360s, so argue price all you want but sales show even at double it sold more the 360 and sold it with competition on the marlet.  Whiel 360 had the market to its self.  



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BeElite said:
Machiavellian said:
BeElite said:
PC and ninty hand held can be used for the argument comp is not overly really needed.

Comp between publisher devs is more then enough hell maybe its all that's need it for the industry to thrive and grow and be strong. Things were best under PS2, things got shitty when market was split 3 ways.

So are you saying that things got shitty with the PS3 because of competition.  Man we must really see things totally different.  The way I see it, Sony worked harder during the PS3 where it became way more than what it started out with.  PSN improved a hundred folds.  Sony took indie developers more serious.  Many people consider the PS3/360/Wii Era to be one of the best in game selection, features of the console and services.

PS2 was a great improvement over PS and it did it after PS dominated.  PS3 was a massive improvement over PS2 and so on.  Improvement is a natural progression even with little to no competition.  

So your arguning aginast PS3s price yet an extra 50/60 a month (500 for the long as gen for services) is awesome addition to your arguemnt?

Wiis online sucked, PS3 was buggy and 360 cost an extra 500 for the consoles LT, just awesome right ?

Last gen Devs and publisher went out of business more so then well ever with the crash being the exception, and gaming on PS2 was best 7th gen does not even come close.  

Exactly what did the PS2 do better than the PS1.  It included better hardware but from there I really could not name any one feature it did better.  So yes progressing is natural but it can be one dimensional if you are the only game in town.  Here is what i like, Nintendo did not just go with more powerful hardware.  They tried to do soemthing totally different and add new experiences.  They took risk and was rewarded that gen.  Maybe its ok for you to only have one option but I rather there were more than one company defining this space.

@Bolded:  Not getting your point.  Have not all 3 console makers improved their online services.  Was this evolution or did competition make this happen??

So you are saying developer that went out of business was the result of competition between the consoles.  How exactly are you drawing this conclusion??



GotBoth said:

There are two statments held as truth around gaming forums: (1) Games sale systems and (2) Competition is better for all gamers.

I believe both are not only false, but ABSOLUTELY FALSE.

1)In terms of games selling systems, like any other form of physical entertainment, HYPE sales systems. Hype can encompass alot of things (including games) but saying games are the ONLY or MAJOR reason a system sales is delousional.  Hype can encompass your marketing campaign, word of mouth, extra features, your friends having the device/system, media perception of the device or system, and of course games.  But word of mouth, friends and media perception I feel are all more important than games (ie a great number of gamers only play 2-4 games a year including Call of Duty and Madden).  To think a LARGE MAJORITY of gamers are waiting on exclusive after exclusive is crazy.  I in fact am one of those gamers waiting on exclusive after exclusive and my REAL LIFE FRIENDS who happen to have game systems are not (NONE OF THEM).  But the friends I meet through PSN and Xbox LIve pretty much ARE.

2) I'll keep this one short, the GEN with the greatest games in MY OPINION were gens that were DOMINATED.  Last Gen was the closest we ever had and the games all had gamebreaking bugs etc etc because developers were trying to get money by developing for ALL consoles (and dont forget PARITY smh).  Lastly, the PS2 DOMINATING did not make SONY or developers let up it made PS2 BETTER and allowed PS2 to HAVE MORE DIVERSE GAMING SELECTION.  The only person competition is better for is the losing consoles not EVERYONE.  The winning console will have great games regardless of if it has a close competitior.


I think your #2 is actually a great point.  Let's be honest here, many games that came out only survived because certain user bases couldn't get some better game they actually wanted.  So they settled on what they could buy.  When there is 1 dominant platform, it means ALL of the games compete with each other.  There is more diversity and experimentation.

Although let's not act like there wasn't any new ideas last gen, just to be fair.  Heavy Rain, Demon's Souls, LBP, Mass Effect, and more all say "Hi."



BeElite said:
Machiavellian said:

All those are points on top of a high price.  No exclusives that really showed why you should pay either price over a 400 dollar 360.  360 multiplats performing better than the more expensive system.  It matter not if its 500 or 600, it was still more expensive then the competition.  You had the Wii at 300 hundred with the innovative mind share at the time and you had the 360 pop out games that played better at less money (exactly what we see today but opposite).

 

The key is that as it is today, unless the tech made games look and run better, gamers really did not care if it was using a Blu-ray drive, had 4 USB ports, PS2 backward compat and other crap.  The perceived value is the same as what we see with the X1.  Gamers do not care how much other crap you throw within a console as long as the end result is better games.

If there was any true leason Sony learned from the PS3 is that start with the hardware that make games look and perfrom great on your system first, then worry about that other stuff later.  For first adopters and momentum, games are still the motivation factor in purchases and a solid price.


Gamers would not care about 500 600 if the PS3 launched first and had the games, but late release and pain in the ass development screwed it the most.  Gave 360 time to build a lead a library and with beaing one year its quality software came mosh sooner. 

PS3 fist year out sold 360s, so argue price all you want but sales show even at double it sold more the 360 and sold it with competition on the marlet.  Whiel 360 had the market to its self.  

@Bolded:  Lets change that.  Do you think gamers would care if the PS3 launched at the same time as the 360 with that price.  Saying gamers would not care if it launch first means that they would have no option to pick something different.  I do not know about you but I like choice.  Its the reason I have a PS4 over the X1 because the PS4 was cheaper with the best performance and better looking games.

You forget something that killed the 360 momentum, RROD.  But thats another topic for another day.



Machiavellian said:
jnemesh said:
Everyone needs to QUIT using the PS3/360 battle as an example! It's a different game than it was 8 years ago! NONE of the advantages that the PS3 had last gen, that enabled them to catch up and eventually surpass the 360 have anything whatsoever to do with where the XB1 stands or where it's going in the future!

You can debate what happened last gen until you turn blue...but it's not going to play out the same way this time guys. There is ZERO chance of the XB1 EVER taking the lead this gen. In the US or globally. The BEST that they can hope for is that they beat out the WiiU for a distant 2nd place...and even that is not assured!

How exactly did the PS3 catch up to the 360.  Was it the multiple price drops.  Was it the removal of all of the initial components within the PS3 when it wasn't selling so good so Sony could drop the price.  Was it Sony retooling the PS3 to build it cheaper, so Sony could drop the price again.

Things do not have to play out the same as last gen but to ignore obvious facts last gen seems to be short sighted.  You sound like the people who were claim the PS3 was dead during those rough years for the PS3.  Sony made many price drops to get the PS3 to a price where consumers preceived the value as acceptable.  It only takes one screw up to turn momentum.  If not for the RROD with the 360 who knows what this gen would have looked like.  Nothing is set and this gen there will be plenty of opportunities for each company to make either smart or dumb moves.

The biggest difference was that people were buying PS3s as blu-ray players and later, Netflix streamers.  (my parents did, and they don't game at all)  It also had better build quality than the 360, support for 1080p in games, non proprietary cables and connectors, and a larger library of exclusive games.  But hey, don't let facts get in the way of your argument.



Machiavellian said:
jnemesh said:
Everyone needs to QUIT using the PS3/360 battle as an example! It's a different game than it was 8 years ago! NONE of the advantages that the PS3 had last gen, that enabled them to catch up and eventually surpass the 360 have anything whatsoever to do with where the XB1 stands or where it's going in the future!

You can debate what happened last gen until you turn blue...but it's not going to play out the same way this time guys. There is ZERO chance of the XB1 EVER taking the lead this gen. In the US or globally. The BEST that they can hope for is that they beat out the WiiU for a distant 2nd place...and even that is not assured!

How exactly did the PS3 catch up to the 360.  Was it the multiple price drops.  Was it the removal of all of the initial components within the PS3 when it wasn't selling so good so Sony could drop the price.  Was it Sony retooling the PS3 to build it cheaper, so Sony could drop the price again.

Things do not have to play out the same as last gen but to ignore obvious facts last gen seems to be short sighted.  You sound like the people who were claim the PS3 was dead during those rough years for the PS3.  Sony made many price drops to get the PS3 to a price where consumers preceived the value as acceptable.  It only takes one screw up to turn momentum.  If not for the RROD with the 360 who knows what this gen would have looked like.  Nothing is set and this gen there will be plenty of opportunities for each company to make either smart or dumb moves.

OMG yes.  Sony dropped the price of the PS3, and MS is trying to with the X1 as well.  BUT, the reason the PS3's price could be dropped so fast is because of all the useless junk it had weighing it down (PS2 parts, Memory card readers, Expensive HDD's).  The fact is that the Xbox One (after kinect) doesn't really have much room for price reduction.  It could probably be made a lot smaller, but it still costs as much to make as the PS4.  If MS drops the price, Sony will too.