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Forums - Sales - Debunking Myths Around Here: PS4 vs. Xbox One

GotBoth said:
Puppyroach said:
How do you know that PS2 domination meant that the games that generation got better? In my view, 7th Gen is by far the greatest generation gaming has ever seen. We had amazing sales, lots and lots of exclusives, insanely great games in TLOU, mass effect, gears, halo, uncharted and so on.

We also had an indie scene that grew massively, awesome 2D games and cheaper games than the generations before.

Yeah, competition creates greatness and more great games for gamers.

And in my opinion the PS2 generation had better games.  Opinions are opinions and I clearly stated in OP that it was my opinion.  You stating yours wont change mine.  Like I said games 7th gen had bugs because of the potential to maximize profit but pushing out unfinished games because all three brands had large install bases.

Absolutely, opinions are just that, opinions. That is why people debate :).

But what if the PS2 era had been even better with stronger competition?



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taggartaa said:
GotBoth said:
Augen said:
Competition is good in the sense that a pure monopoly can lead to business practices that hurt consumers.

If there was no competition we likely would see who ever had the monopoly charging more for systems, controllers, games, online services. While I can agree a market leader is good and parity can be an issue, no competition is definitely bad. All I have to do is view cable companies in the US and how poorly run companies can get away with when there is no pressure on them.

I would point back to PS2 gen, it dominated (pretty much like major cable companies) and we didn' see any of the issues you pointed out.  The other system during 6th gen could serve as the smaller cable companys that can't really compete but are still available (going by your analogy).

The reason the games for the ps2 were so diverse is because of all the competition within the ps2 platform (many developers competing to get the sales). Once you release a console, you can't really increase the price of it, that wouldn't make much sense to the consumer. The ps2 domination gave birth to the ps3 launch, an overpriced, late to market console (in the end the ps3 did fine because of price drops and constant support from Sony first party studios which was all brought on by competative pressure from the 360).

What is causing games to be more stagnant today is not compettition, it's development costs. Consumers demand state of the art visuals, physical effects, and open world scenarios. That is difficult and therefore expensive to make. The more expensive something is to make, the less risk the business is willing to take.

These arguments about overpriced PS3 don't work.  first, because when iPhone got hot the price of not only thier phones increased but ALL phones and people still by iPhones when they don't have to (same with iPads). second, because PSs have always been premium priced and introduce new tech to gaming (dvd, bluray etc) and have never been the cheapest console because of this.  So they have always been overpriced with regards to competition PS3 just lost because it was late to game ($500/$600 PS3 vs. $400 Xbox lauched on the same day PS3 would have won)



Also, as far as games not selling systems, the PC Engine would probably disagree with you.

Did you know that NEC and Hudson were actually beating Nintendo in Japan? They had all the latest arcade games and were looking good. However, Nintendo used some hard-line, and ultimately illegal, methods to force many developers to give them exclusivity in the US, which killed the system deader than a doorknob. Without the most popular games, they had no chance.



pokoko said:
Also, as far as games not selling systems, the PC Engine would probably disagree with you.

Did you know that NEC and Hudson were actually beating Nintendo in Japan? They had all the latest arcade games and were looking good. However, Nintendo used some hard-line, and ultimately illegal, methods to force many developers to give them exclusivity in the US, which killed the system deader than a doorknob. Without the most popular games, they had no chance.


I think great systems killing off others systems is good, I didn't and i haven't read anybody complaining about Nitendo's early systems. Or PS systems when they took over.  If PS4 had all the popular games and xbox didnt it would only hurt xbox fans (and that is my point competition isnt good for everyone its for who is not in the lead).  PS4 has double install base and would grow so developers would lose not much money (well COD might because they are so strong on xbox).



GotBoth said:
taggartaa said:
GotBoth said:
Augen said:
Competition is good in the sense that a pure monopoly can lead to business practices that hurt consumers.

If there was no competition we likely would see who ever had the monopoly charging more for systems, controllers, games, online services. While I can agree a market leader is good and parity can be an issue, no competition is definitely bad. All I have to do is view cable companies in the US and how poorly run companies can get away with when there is no pressure on them.

I would point back to PS2 gen, it dominated (pretty much like major cable companies) and we didn' see any of the issues you pointed out.  The other system during 6th gen could serve as the smaller cable companys that can't really compete but are still available (going by your analogy).

The reason the games for the ps2 were so diverse is because of all the competition within the ps2 platform (many developers competing to get the sales). Once you release a console, you can't really increase the price of it, that wouldn't make much sense to the consumer. The ps2 domination gave birth to the ps3 launch, an overpriced, late to market console (in the end the ps3 did fine because of price drops and constant support from Sony first party studios which was all brought on by competative pressure from the 360).

What is causing games to be more stagnant today is not compettition, it's development costs. Consumers demand state of the art visuals, physical effects, and open world scenarios. That is difficult and therefore expensive to make. The more expensive something is to make, the less risk the business is willing to take.

These arguments about overpriced PS3 don't work.  first, because when iPhone got hot the price of not only thier phones increased but ALL phones and people still by iPhones when they don't have to (same with iPads). second, because PSs have always been premium priced and introduce new tech to gaming (dvd, bluray etc) and have never been the cheapest console because of this.  So they have always been overpriced with regards to competition PS3 just lost because it was late to game ($500/$600 PS3 vs. $400 Xbox lauched on the same day PS3 would have won)


But the PS3, after a year on the market (and a year late) due to slow sales also had a price drop. Sony has already stated that price drops for the PS4 will be less frequent than last gen.

http://www.cnn.com/2007/TECH/fun.games/07/09/sony.price.reut/

Besides the Dreamcast, I gamed only on the PS1, and PS2, previous gens, and it took me awhile to move on from the PS2.  I did not buy a xbox360 at launch, I waited for the PS3 to drop. After I saw the price, and the games (they looked the same as the 360, which was cheaper) I went with a Xbox360, I eventually bought a Wii, (Resident Evil 4 was amazing) I eventually bought the PS3, and a bunch of exclusives.

I really liked Sony consoles alot, the PS3 with Ken's statement about getting a second job to own it, really put me off. I was in the military, at the time,and being deployed yearly, I made alot of tax free money. But I still did not buy it until almost 4 years later.

I think with MS intro into this gen they also put people off, where they will not see sales pick up, and match the PS4 in terms of monthly sales until the mid point of it's life too. Which is a shame, it is a well thought out system. Even Steve Jobs felt the next barrier in Tv would be voice controls ala Back to the Future 2 tv.

Sony has garnered alot of good faith back towards the end of the PS3's life, and carrying it into this generation. Hopefully MS can do the same. Competition is good, and important for us as consumers. What would pricing on PS now look like without someone like MS, and Nintendo constantly fighting them?



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Agree on the first one, people will buy new systems regardless of games.

The second part is silly. Games last gen "all had game breaking bugs" because of multiplatform development? Strangely, the two buggiest, crappiest sections of games I played last gen were Gears 2 (360 exclusive) and Twisted Metal (PS3 exclusive).

Hyperbole doesn't make an opinion right. Logically we all know competition makes the industry better. Look where Sony started out at launch.



Agree with your first point but completely disagree with the second. Competition is great for the industry.



    

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GotBoth said:
Puppyroach said:
How do you know that PS2 domination meant that the games that generation got better? In my view, 7th Gen is by far the greatest generation gaming has ever seen. We had amazing sales, lots and lots of exclusives, insanely great games in TLOU, mass effect, gears, halo, uncharted and so on.

We also had an indie scene that grew massively, awesome 2D games and cheaper games than the generations before.

Yeah, competition creates greatness and more great games for gamers.

And in my opinion the PS2 generation had better games.  Opinions are opinions and I clearly stated in OP that it was my opinion.  You stating yours wont change mine.  Like I said games 7th gen had bugs because of the potential to maximize profit but pushing out unfinished games because all three brands had large install bases.

so shouldn't your thread title be "my opinion about the platform/generation myths".

And you shouldn't be pushing your opinions as facts anyways.

That being said, I do agree with you that games alone don't sell hardware. Can't say I agree with the no competition thing though... especially if you consider that without competition there is a lot we wouldn't have today. I don't even think things like PS+, PSnow, competent online gaming and infrastructure...etc would be a thing. Just look at the WiiU. 



GotBoth said:
pokoko said:
If there had been no 360, then the Sony would have had little reason to improve the online components of their service.

If there had been no PS4, we'd now be playing on the original version of the Xbox One.

Yeah, competition is good for consumers.


So how do you explain PS1 and PS2 generations.  Domination didn't lead to people saying those systems suck.  Some consider them greatest consoles EVER.

They didn't give us multiple free games every month and have weekly fire sales back then. Both things done in an attempt to compete with each other and to an extent Steam.



Competition is very good for consumers. If it weren't for the 360 being competitive with the PS3, the PS4 would be priced at $600 right now.

And the reason why there are so many games on all the platforms is that the platforms are almost completely identical architecture-wise, making it very easy to develop for one and release on the other.

PS2 may have had a great selection, but a lot of it was due to the disparity in console power/price. The architecture of all 3 consoles was significantly different, and the PS2 had much weaker hardware than the Xbox or GC, which led to devs not bothering with porting games for the most part to the other consoles. The PS2 was also significantly cheaper than the Xbox, and sold much more than the GC due to having a DVD player.



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Xbox One - PS4 - Wii U - PC