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Forums - Sales Discussion - X1 will never catch or match PS4 sales, it is a misfired product.

sales2099 said:
BeElite said:
sales2099 said:

More bold responses in quote itself.

What is really funny is that the X1/PS4 is just 7 months old and you talk like its all said and done, especially with the predictions you made, especailly with you so sure about NA. At the same time, we all know what you are saying, but you feel you had to repeat it with your own personal smugness thrown in (and happily doing so).

Serious question: Do you actually get pleasure from PS4 leading in sales? I know I did last gen.


Yes only 7 months, but even MS agrees.  "History has shown us that the first company to reach 10 million in console sales wins the generation battle." Xbox is as done as done can be for the gen.

Its easy to be sure about NA, look at the 360/PS3 see the price they sold as and its rather easy to see Xbox One at 399 will fail in the face of the far superior PS4.

I get great pleasure seeing the averagefool consumer choose the best product at the best price thats best for them.  Not one that tried to erode their rights and options and freedoms.  Its a pleasure seeing something win for the right reasons and another fail for their nazi like drive to control and fuck over people.  None with any common sense would support MS after what they tried to do.

Hopefully when you are unbanned we can continue this discussion.

MS changed their policies before the console launched. When their consumer makes enough noise and sales go to the competitor, things can and will change. Don Mattrick is gone. That said, the winner is always the laziest. Sony doesn't have to try as hard as they did last gen.

PS Now rental prices.....if those prices are any indication, being 1st has its drawbacks. I at least feel good to know MS HAS to go right by their fans this gen or otherwise suffer even more. In the end, I am marvelled at your ability to see Sony as perfect angels. 


Unfortunately, the problems with the Xbox One can't be fixed with the firing of a few executives, no matter how obnoxious they were.  The problems started 3 years ago, when they created the "vision" for what the XB1 was supposed to be.  Encouraged by how people were using the 360 as a media player, they envisioned "taking over the living room" with the XB1...making it the portal for ALL of your living room entertainment.  They envisioned (and patented) using the Kinect to charge you for movies based on the number of viewers.  They also patented having the Kinect scan logos present in it's field of view and marketing targeted ads to you based on those logos.  They envisioned mining all of your viewing habits and selling that data to advertisers as well.  They wanted complete control over everything you did in the living room, from games to TV, to streaming video.  They also had a "vision" for restricting the sales of used games, making it only possible to "resell" them at "authorized" resellers, like Gamestop...of course, they would take a chunk of THAT money too.

Fortunately for all of us, the majority outright REJECTED that vision.  Many of us wouldn't buy a console that forced Kinect upon us...and they "listened" by removing the requirement to have it connected.  They also (wisely) backed down on the onerous DRM and their used game restrictions. 

Now, they backed down on Kinect COMPLETELY, unbundling it from the console....which will eventually lead to it's death...and also the death of their vision.  Without Kinect, the XB1 is "just" a game console...which is what most of us really wanted in the first place.  Problem is, the hardware is set now...and if it's competiting as "just" a game console, it's underpowered and overpriced.  Oh, it also has less games (as of this writing, XB1 has 43 games available to play RIGHT NOW, and PS4 has 88!).

They can talk about GAMES GAMES GAMES (ghosts of Ballmer!) all they want...but the fact is, a "AAA" title takes about 3 years to complete once development starts.  So they have what they have right now...don't expect them to magically pull out a system selling exclusive out of nowhere.  Yes, they will be looking to add to their exclusive game library...but that is YEARS away. 

In the meantime, they are being outsold almost 3:1 globally, and up to 2:1 in their strongest regions, the US and the UK.  Without SYSTEM SELLING games, this won't change.  In 2014 we will see Sunset Overhype and Halo 1-4 remastered be released.  THAT'S IT.  Neither will move hardware.  Want proof of that?  Look at the Amazon best sellers...pre orders for Halo are high, but the systems themselves are still stuck in the low 40s.

By the time Microsoft DOES have something (like, say Halo 5) that will move consoles...it will be entirely too late.  Microsoft AT BEST can shoot for 2nd place over the WiiU this gen, but even that is not guaranteed.

One last thing:  The prices listed on the PS Now BETA are not final.  You don't get to criticize betas or their pricing until official release.  If it does launch with these prices, THEN you can complain...until then, you can sit and wait with the rest of us to see how this will play out.



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sales2099 said:

No shit. But they changed for the better regardless. Sony is the same....they released a cheaper, more developer friendly PS4 because of the mistakes and lost sales/marketshare opportunities with PS3. Make no mistake, these are corporations and they both care about money. MS just realized that caring = more money. Sony cares, but it isn't because they value your happiness. It's because your happiness makes them money.


dude.. stop being so pick and choosey and turn it all so one-sided.  MS realized that caring = more money?  then wouldn't that mean Sony cared = more market sales and money?  You don't think MS values your happiness because it makes them money?  it's like your perogative is to inform that anything MS does is for the people and they care about you and everything Sony does is because they want you to be happy so they can get your money.  you're not the first poster that has given some weird explanation for the sony hate and ms love.  the best one still has to be "if sony wins, it's bad for the whole game industry; if ms wins, it's a win win for everyone".. bwahah.



Man.. I hate it when your girl has to leave my place to come back to you..

S.T.A.G.E. said:
jnemesh said:
Dark Chaos said:
DrDoomz said:
I don't get how Sony's stock prices have anything to do with how badly the XBOne is doing vs the PS4 in this generation so far.

Other than bringing in a completely irrelevant talking point, that is. Fox-news style.


It does matter when the Playstation division didn't profit last year and Sony is trimming the fat. The Xbox division proffited. Most of the shareholders don't care if theyre outselling the competition when they continue to lose money.


The Xbox division DIDN'T and HAS NEVER been profitable.  Go re-read the annual earnings report if you doubt me.


The Xbox division is profitable, but the profit is peanuts for Microsoft. The money the gaming industry provides is chump change. Their only reason for even existing is to stop Sony from growing in multimedia.

http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/2013-11-07-huge-xbox-losses-hidden-by-patent-royalties-says-analyst

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/129463-Microsoft-Loses-2-Billion-Per-Year-On-Xbox-Analyst-Says

http://www.extremetech.com/computing/181337-microsoft-attempts-to-hide-anemic-xbox-one-sales-amid-lackluster-quarterly-earnings

http://bgr.com/2013/11/26/xbox-one-profit-estimate/

I'm sorry, you were saying?  It's pretty blatant that they are losing TONS of money on Xbox.  I don't know where you got the impression that they were profitable, but it's wrong.



jnemesh said:
sales2099 said:

Hopefully when you are unbanned we can continue this discussion.

MS changed their policies before the console launched. When their consumer makes enough noise and sales go to the competitor, things can and will change. Don Mattrick is gone. That said, the winner is always the laziest. Sony doesn't have to try as hard as they did last gen.

PS Now rental prices.....if those prices are any indication, being 1st has its drawbacks. I at least feel good to know MS HAS to go right by their fans this gen or otherwise suffer even more. In the end, I am marvelled at your ability to see Sony as perfect angels. 


Unfortunately, the problems with the Xbox One can't be fixed with the firing of a few executives, no matter how obnoxious they were.  The problems started 3 years ago, when they created the "vision" for what the XB1 was supposed to be.  Encouraged by how people were using the 360 as a media player, they envisioned "taking over the living room" with the XB1...making it the portal for ALL of your living room entertainment.  They envisioned (and patented) using the Kinect to charge you for movies based on the number of viewers.  They also patented having the Kinect scan logos present in it's field of view and marketing targeted ads to you based on those logos.  They envisioned mining all of your viewing habits and selling that data to advertisers as well.  They wanted complete control over everything you did in the living room, from games to TV, to streaming video.  They also had a "vision" for restricting the sales of used games, making it only possible to "resell" them at "authorized" resellers, like Gamestop...of course, they would take a chunk of THAT money too.

Fortunately for all of us, the majority outright REJECTED that vision.  Many of us wouldn't buy a console that forced Kinect upon us...and they "listened" by removing the requirement to have it connected.  They also (wisely) backed down on the onerous DRM and their used game restrictions. 

Now, they backed down on Kinect COMPLETELY, unbundling it from the console....which will eventually lead to it's death...and also the death of their vision.  Without Kinect, the XB1 is "just" a game console...which is what most of us really wanted in the first place.  Problem is, the hardware is set now...and if it's competiting as "just" a game console, it's underpowered and overpriced.  Oh, it also has less games (as of this writing, XB1 has 43 games available to play RIGHT NOW, and PS4 has 88!).

They can talk about GAMES GAMES GAMES (ghosts of Ballmer!) all they want...but the fact is, a "AAA" title takes about 3 years to complete once development starts.  So they have what they have right now...don't expect them to magically pull out a system selling exclusive out of nowhere.  Yes, they will be looking to add to their exclusive game library...but that is YEARS away. 

In the meantime, they are being outsold almost 3:1 globally, and up to 2:1 in their strongest regions, the US and the UK.  Without SYSTEM SELLING games, this won't change.  In 2014 we will see Sunset Overhype and Halo 1-4 remastered be released.  THAT'S IT.  Neither will move hardware.  Want proof of that?  Look at the Amazon best sellers...pre orders for Halo are high, but the systems themselves are still stuck in the low 40s.

By the time Microsoft DOES have something (like, say Halo 5) that will move consoles...it will be entirely too late.  Microsoft AT BEST can shoot for 2nd place over the WiiU this gen, but even that is not guaranteed.

Fortunately, the problems for Xbox 1 changed with actual policy shifts plus the firing of Don. Your entire 1st paragraph is Don Mattricks vision. That vision, and himself, are gone.

X1 may be underpowered compared to PS4, but then again so was 360 to PS3. Or DS to PSP. Or 3ds to Vita. Point being games will still come and specs are always secondary. Price can and will change. I don't see X1 and PS4 being the same price for a long time.

I am aware PS4 has the gen in the bag. But that doesn't mean X1 can't be a great option in itself. I mean right now X1 has Forza 5, Dead Rising 3, Titanfall vs Killzone and Infamous. This fall is Forza Horizon, Halo MCC, Project Spark, and Sunset Overdrive vs LBP 3 and Drive Club. Offcourse I am using the biggest name games, ones that can actually qualify as system sellers. I am just saying X1 is doing great so far on big name games.



Xbox: Best hardware, Game Pass best value, best BC, more 1st party genres and multiplayer titles. 

 

sales2099 said:
jnemesh said:
sales2099 said:
 

Hopefully when you are unbanned we can continue this discussion.

MS changed their policies before the console launched. When their consumer makes enough noise and sales go to the competitor, things can and will change. Don Mattrick is gone. That said, the winner is always the laziest. Sony doesn't have to try as hard as they did last gen.

PS Now rental prices.....if those prices are any indication, being 1st has its drawbacks. I at least feel good to know MS HAS to go right by their fans this gen or otherwise suffer even more. In the end, I am marvelled at your ability to see Sony as perfect angels. 


Unfortunately, the problems with the Xbox One can't be fixed with the firing of a few executives, no matter how obnoxious they were.  The problems started 3 years ago, when they created the "vision" for what the XB1 was supposed to be.  Encouraged by how people were using the 360 as a media player, they envisioned "taking over the living room" with the XB1...making it the portal for ALL of your living room entertainment.  They envisioned (and patented) using the Kinect to charge you for movies based on the number of viewers.  They also patented having the Kinect scan logos present in it's field of view and marketing targeted ads to you based on those logos.  They envisioned mining all of your viewing habits and selling that data to advertisers as well.  They wanted complete control over everything you did in the living room, from games to TV, to streaming video.  They also had a "vision" for restricting the sales of used games, making it only possible to "resell" them at "authorized" resellers, like Gamestop...of course, they would take a chunk of THAT money too.

Fortunately for all of us, the majority outright REJECTED that vision.  Many of us wouldn't buy a console that forced Kinect upon us...and they "listened" by removing the requirement to have it connected.  They also (wisely) backed down on the onerous DRM and their used game restrictions. 

Now, they backed down on Kinect COMPLETELY, unbundling it from the console....which will eventually lead to it's death...and also the death of their vision.  Without Kinect, the XB1 is "just" a game console...which is what most of us really wanted in the first place.  Problem is, the hardware is set now...and if it's competiting as "just" a game console, it's underpowered and overpriced.  Oh, it also has less games (as of this writing, XB1 has 43 games available to play RIGHT NOW, and PS4 has 88!).

They can talk about GAMES GAMES GAMES (ghosts of Ballmer!) all they want...but the fact is, a "AAA" title takes about 3 years to complete once development starts.  So they have what they have right now...don't expect them to magically pull out a system selling exclusive out of nowhere.  Yes, they will be looking to add to their exclusive game library...but that is YEARS away. 

In the meantime, they are being outsold almost 3:1 globally, and up to 2:1 in their strongest regions, the US and the UK.  Without SYSTEM SELLING games, this won't change.  In 2014 we will see Sunset Overhype and Halo 1-4 remastered be released.  THAT'S IT.  Neither will move hardware.  Want proof of that?  Look at the Amazon best sellers...pre orders for Halo are high, but the systems themselves are still stuck in the low 40s.

By the time Microsoft DOES have something (like, say Halo 5) that will move consoles...it will be entirely too late.  Microsoft AT BEST can shoot for 2nd place over the WiiU this gen, but even that is not guaranteed.

Fortunately, the problems for Xbox 1 changed with actual policy shifts plus the firing of Don. Your entire 1st paragraph is Don Mattricks vision. That vision, and himself, are gone.

X1 may be underpowered compared to PS4, but then again so was 360 to PS3. Or DS to PSP. Or 3ds to Vita. Point being games will still come and specs are always secondary. Price can and will change. I don't see X1 and PS4 being the same price for a long time.

I am aware PS4 has the gen in the bag. But that doesn't mean X1 can't be a great option in itself. I mean right now X1 has Forza 5, Dead Rising 3, Titanfall vs Killzone and Infamous. This fall is Forza Horizon, Halo MCC, Project Spark, and Sunset Overdrive vs LBP 3 and Drive Club. Offcourse I am using the biggest name games, ones that can actually qualify as system sellers. I am just saying X1 is doing great so far on big name games.


And you just missed the entire point of my post.  Mattrick may be gone, but the hardware he helped designed is what is being sold today.  There is nothing MS can do except to keep pushing a console  that is widely regarded as underpowered.  All of the dubious "advantages" that the XB1 had with Kinect are GONE, and competing as "just" a game console is doomed to failure as the competition's console, sold at the same price, outperforms it AND has more games.  The integration that MS was looking for is gone, the "dominance" in the living room is gone, and all that's left are the empty promises Microsoft made.



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jnemesh said:
S.T.A.G.E. said:


The Xbox division is profitable, but the profit is peanuts for Microsoft. The money the gaming industry provides is chump change. Their only reason for even existing is to stop Sony from growing in multimedia.

http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/2013-11-07-huge-xbox-losses-hidden-by-patent-royalties-says-analyst

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/129463-Microsoft-Loses-2-Billion-Per-Year-On-Xbox-Analyst-Says

http://www.extremetech.com/computing/181337-microsoft-attempts-to-hide-anemic-xbox-one-sales-amid-lackluster-quarterly-earnings

http://bgr.com/2013/11/26/xbox-one-profit-estimate/

I'm sorry, you were saying?  It's pretty blatant that they are losing TONS of money on Xbox.  I don't know where you got the impression that they were profitable, but it's wrong.

1st link - "Estimates" from a analyst. Which are not expalined how he got them.

2nd link - Same news as the 1st link, you tried to pass it off like it is seperate. lol

3rd link - Just talks about PS4 outselling XB1, but gives no concrete information on Xbox losing money.

4th link - Same as the 1st and 2nd link news.

MS quarterly results since 2008 have shown that the Xbox division makes a profit. 360 profit now helps pad X1 losses.



Xbox: Best hardware, Game Pass best value, best BC, more 1st party genres and multiplayer titles. 

 

jnemesh said:
sales2099 said:

Fortunately, the problems for Xbox 1 changed with actual policy shifts plus the firing of Don. Your entire 1st paragraph is Don Mattricks vision. That vision, and himself, are gone.

X1 may be underpowered compared to PS4, but then again so was 360 to PS3. Or DS to PSP. Or 3ds to Vita. Point being games will still come and specs are always secondary. Price can and will change. I don't see X1 and PS4 being the same price for a long time.

I am aware PS4 has the gen in the bag. But that doesn't mean X1 can't be a great option in itself. I mean right now X1 has Forza 5, Dead Rising 3, Titanfall vs Killzone and Infamous. This fall is Forza Horizon, Halo MCC, Project Spark, and Sunset Overdrive vs LBP 3 and Drive Club. Offcourse I am using the biggest name games, ones that can actually qualify as system sellers. I am just saying X1 is doing great so far on big name games.


And you just missed the entire point of my post.  Mattrick may be gone, but the hardware he helped designed is what is being sold today.  There is nothing MS can do except to keep pushing a console  that is widely regarded as underpowered.  All of the dubious "advantages" that the XB1 had with Kinect are GONE, and competing as "just" a game console is doomed to failure as the competition's console, sold at the same price, outperforms it AND has more games.  The integration that MS was looking for is gone, the "dominance" in the living room is gone, and all that's left are the empty promises Microsoft made.

Ok.....so Xbox gamers are left with a console that isn't what it was designed to do.....but at the same time everything we want. Oh and were not 1st place.

Oh nooooooo, woe is us! Just because PS4 is going to win, doesn't mean X1 can't be great for its own customers.



Xbox: Best hardware, Game Pass best value, best BC, more 1st party genres and multiplayer titles. 

 

Go do your own google search then.  Have fun believing (falsely) that MS is making money on the Xbox.  Enjoy as well watching the brand implode, as it is continuing to sit on store shelves instead of selling.  The proof is in the numbers, and since Jan 1st this year, it has been selling at a dismal pace.



jnemesh said:

Go do your own google search then.  Have fun believing (falsely) that MS is making money on the Xbox.  Enjoy as well watching the brand implode, as it is continuing to sit on store shelves instead of selling.  The proof is in the numbers, and since Jan 1st this year, it has been selling at a dismal pace.


he won't find any to back up his claims.  anything that mentions ms profits mention nothing about xbox.. but it's always lumped together to make it seem like xbox is making money, while in fact the truth is, ms is making money.. xbox is making peanuts if not, nothing at all.  even by division breakdown, you have the other products that prop up xbox, like the tablets and phones, which they will mention as being profitable somewhat, but never anything about the xbox division itself being profitable. even during the 360 era, xbox division was propped by pc games, mediaroom, and windows phones.  Rest assure when you hear that MS's entertainment and devices, or devices and consumer hardware makes/made a profit, xbox folks think it's xbox that profitted, not knowing that xbox made squat; phones, tablets, pc games/software, etc, made the money.  Just listen or read MS's annual financials and you can specifically hear them point out the profit sectors and profit products while clumping xbox to those division(s) without ever mentioning xbox only numbers. 



Man.. I hate it when your girl has to leave my place to come back to you..

doesnt everybody already know this? why is this thread going still going on?