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Forums - Sales Discussion - X1 will never catch or match PS4 sales, it is a misfired product.

DrDoomz on 22 June 2014
Dark Chaos said:

Short term. Sony didn't make any money off the PS3. In fact they lost billions on the PS3 so I'd say they are not gonna be a lot more conservative this gen. Sacrificing profit like last gen is not feasible anymore, not for a company like SONY that is already losing a lot of money. In the console business Market Leadership isn't as important as people posting in the internet seem to think. If it was so the PS3 would have sold like hot cakes, the Wii U would be selling well yet both didn't happen.

I don't need to study business because its mostly common sense. If Sony followed your footsteps we would have seen a $150 Vita out by now but yet they haven't because they rather be profitable with the Vita than sell a couple million more to satisfy their fans on the internet.

You say you studied business yet you speak only in terms of sales as "winning". Real life isn't all sales. Just ask all the AAA developers who have shut down even after selling millions of their games.

You do understand that the PS4 is already selling at a profit, correct? They don't need to "sacrifice profit", if you read what I wrote a little better, you"d see the "how much companies are willing to sacrifice in short term profits in order to attain a dominant market leadership position" part. Sony already HAS a dominant market leadership position. They don't need to sacrifice profits to gain position, just maintain their lead. Which is MUCH cheaper.

And your statement: "In the console business Market Leadership isn't as important as people posting in the internet seem to think. If it was so the PS3 would have sold like hot cakes" is a complete non sequitur. Sony lost market leadership with the PS3 (bad decisions, poor marketing, lousy price point and head start by Xbox) and is not the leader in portable gaming.

You'd be surprised how many businesses go under due to the owners thinking that "common sense" is enough. As you don't have any business acumen whatsoever, you might want to avoid assuming what "my lead" is in case it gets "followed". Actually, Vita is a lost cause, it will never gain market leadership due to enormous lead the 3DS has over it. At this point, it's going to have to be content at being a market follower and try and carve out a niche market within the portable gaming market. A price drop isn't going to help it unless it sells at a vastly lower price than the Vita and why would they? Gaining market leadership in portables is no longer within their reach.

I actually began writing a small essay regarding the importance of an early market leadership position and how it is relevant to the console gaming industry as a whole and realized it was simply a waste of time as I doubt you'd even read it or try to understand it. Will PM you how far I got if you want, however.

A strawman and another non sequitor. When did I say that sales = real life success?  And, btw, market leadership isn't about selling a lot, it's about establishing a dominant market share within the industry. AAA developers closing has nothing to do with any of this as their "brand" is only about as strong as their next game, it's the publishers (EA, Activitision, Ubi) that carve out sustainable leadership positions in this industry.

Bottom line, you don't know what you're talking about. Sony's stock prices has nothing to do with the thread topic cept maybe to take the discussion on a meaningless tangent. Here is the thread title so we can get back on topic:

X1 will never catch or match PS4 sales ----> you already agreed to this, so moving on.

X1 is a misfired product ----> seeing as they lost their dominant NA market leadership position, you will have to be able to agree to this as well. They're fixing things, but as the term "misfire" implies the start to short term, it is unequivocally correct.

Is Xbox a failure as a product? Time will tell. But for now, they are simply getting trounced by their nearest competitor.

Talking about Sony's bad financials is just a desperate attempt at bringing an irrelevant matter just to have some sort of talking point to fall back on.

So let's go back on topic shall we?



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S.T.A.G.E. on 22 June 2014

Microsoft cannot naturally beat Sony head to head. They needed the head start with the 360. They tend to copy Sonys tactics as well. Given the fact that the PS4 is just superior in hardware for the same price it doesnt help at all either.



mentalstasis on 22 June 2014
S.T.A.G.E. said:
Microsoft cannot naturally beat Sony head to head. They needed the head start with the 360. They tend to copy Sonys tactics as well. Given the fact that the PS4 is just superior in hardware for the same price it doesnt help at all either.


Exactly, what I find hilarious is after all these years, people, even media and people in the game industry..keep underestimating the brand strength of playstation.



S.T.A.G.E. on 22 June 2014
mentalstasis said:
S.T.A.G.E. said:
Microsoft cannot naturally beat Sony head to head. They needed the head start with the 360. They tend to copy Sonys tactics as well. Given the fact that the PS4 is just superior in hardware for the same price it doesnt help at all either.


Exactly, what I find hilarious is after all these years, people, even media and people in the game industry..keep underestimating the brand strength of playstation.


Microsoft was not happy with their first gen defeat so they rushed the 360's hardware to get to Sony. They rushed the Xbone as well but this time it was at least much closer to the end of development compared. Thats why they were rushing the fix the clock speed on the Xbone when Sony revealed the PS4. Everything Microsoft really does is based on Sony's movement.



mentalstasis on 22 June 2014
S.T.A.G.E. said:
mentalstasis said:
S.T.A.G.E. said:
Microsoft cannot naturally beat Sony head to head. They needed the head start with the 360. They tend to copy Sonys tactics as well. Given the fact that the PS4 is just superior in hardware for the same price it doesnt help at all either.


Exactly, what I find hilarious is after all these years, people, even media and people in the game industry..keep underestimating the brand strength of playstation.


Microsoft was not happy with their first gen defeat so they rushed the 360's hardware to get to Sony. They rushed the Xbone as well but this time it was at least much closer to the end of development compared. Thats why they were rushing the fix the clock speed on the Xbone when Sony revealed the PS4. Everything Microsoft really does is based on Sony's movement.

Agree, it's obvious.



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thismeintiel on 22 June 2014
Dark Chaos said:
thismeintiel said:
Intrinsic said:

Guess I have seen them all. 

Firstoff, this thread is (was) about if the X1 will ever catch or match the PS4 sales. I like most others have said it wouldn't and have gone on to explain why we think so. But you seem to not actually be talking about the sales thing at all, you seem to be saying that MS doesn't care if sony's PS4 sells more consoles and thus "wins" this console generation. Yet you talk about the MS divisions profits. Do you have any idea how those profits come by? 

But yh, MS doesn't care.

It seems to be the case with quite a few Xbox fans.  Can't talk sales, so they move on to profits.  Even when Sony's gaming division profits, they move on to the companies, as a whole.  Trying to hope/imagine some scenerio where Sony is going to go bankrupt in the next year or so, so the Xbox One will win by default.  Kinda sad when you have to hope for a competitor to go under, cause your fave company can't compete, otherwise.

Of course, what they fail to see is that while MS, as a whole, is doing very good, many investors are not happy with them shoving money into the Xbox division.  Something they see as a lost cause, now.  It's obvious how this gen is playing out on a WW scale, so MS throwing money around isn't going to change anything.  We saw this in March, when MS threw away money to not only get exclusivity for Titanfall, but also to be able to give it away free, in an already discounted bundle.  Sony still won NPD.  And once support for the 360 is dropped, and all that extra profit from it dwindles, MS's Xbox division isn't going to look so hot.


Who is a Xbox fan? So I if provide a argument you resort to childish accusations?? Isn't that being immature. Can't you provide a intelligent argument without resorting to childish attacks?

Remind when Sony's gaming division profited and how much they did over the past 5 years.

You just proved my point.  That was easy. 



 

kekrot on 22 June 2014

The PS3 also lagged behind (even though it was a year later), so I wouldn't jump to conclusions this early.



Yep.

cookingyourmama on 22 June 2014

Edit: Wrong thread.



S.T.A.G.E. on 22 June 2014
Dark Chaos said:
TheBlackNaruto said:

For instance, if Sony loses a billion dollars while MS profits a billion dollars over the course of the generation. Only Forum dwellers discuss victories based on sales. Real life is based on money firstmost. In addition, I never argued that the PS4 would not be a success rather that I believe both the PS4 and X1 can both become success's in the long run.


Are you saning Sony as a whole or just the PS division and the XB division profits? And to your point it is obvious MS cares about Sony outselling them. Sony is their closest compeitior and they have invested a lot of money into the XB1. If they didn't care they wouldn't have changed so many of their polocies nor would they have cut the price of the XB1 already. So yes they indeed care.

And also case in point in a discusion about X1/PS4 of course people are going to discuss the sales of the two products. Do finaces of the two compaies matter? sure they do! But to they matter when discussing one out selling the other...no....even if it was the reverse. But also yes they can indeed both become a sucess for both companies. 

The thread is not to discuss sales. The thread title assumes the PS4 will outsell the X1 and I agree, however I diasgree on it being a unsucessfull machine. Also, I'm talking about just their gaming divions. 

Their gaming division has been profiting since 2010 and the PS4 has already begun to profit.



S.T.A.G.E. on 22 June 2014
Azzanation said:
X1 doesn't have to outsell PS4 to be a successful machine. As long as MS are happy with Xbox then we will continue to have games and consoles In the future. X1 is the fastest selling Xbox in its history. Should we gamers care what console wins a sales race if all are successful? No. As long as the system isn't a flop like the Dreamcast there is nothing to worry about. X1 has sold the least amount of hardware this gen yet it has the most AAA games available and coming in 2014, again do Sales really matter? No. Wii beat the 360 and PS3 last gen hands down but did that effect the other consoles from 3rd party developers and games? again No.

Just play the games you love.


Microsofts whole reason for being in the gaming industry isnt just to be a successful machine, but to stop Sony from gaining marketshare.