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Forums - Sales - X1 will never catch or match PS4 sales, it is a misfired product.

Dark Chaos on 22 June 2014
DrDoomz said:
Dark Chaos said:
DrDoomz said:
I don't get how Sony's stock prices have anything to do with how badly the XBOne is doing vs the PS4 in this generation so far.

Other than bringing in a completely irrelevant talking point, that is. Fox-news style.


It does matter when the Playstation division didn't profit last year and Sony is trimming the fat. The Xbox division proffited. Most of the shareholders don't care if theyre outselling the competition when they continue to lose money.

There are different metrics in determining success in business. Profit is a short term, easily quantified criterion, yes. But there is also market share/leadership, which is long term. You'd be surprised how much companies are willing to sacrifice in short term profits in order to attain a dominant market leadership position. Proft vs Market Leadership, guess which is more relevant to the topic on hand?

Dude, do you even business? I graduated top of my class in business school. 13 years in a corporate environment. No offense, but it kinda looks like you don't really know what you're talking about. In no way will Sony "trim the fat" on a brand which is attaining a solid market leadership vs its primary competitors unless it's showing a huge loss. You wanna talk about Business 101, BCG matrix it, man.

This is, however, just A red herrings to distract from the facts on hand: that the PS is well on its way to dominate the XBone this gen. I wouldn't say it's impossible for XBox to catchup, though. Sony can still eff this up, but this is their race to lose.

Short term. Sony didn't make any money off the PS3. In fact they lost billions on the PS3 so I'd say they are not gonna be a lot more conservative this gen. Sacrificing profit like last gen is not feasible anymore, not for a company like SONY that is already losing a lot of money. In the console business Market Leadership isn't as important as people posting in the internet seem to think. If it was so the PS3 would have sold like hot cakes, the Wii U would be selling well yet both didn't happen.

I don't need to study business because its mostly common sense. If Sony followed your footsteps we would have seen a $150 Vita out by now but yet they haven't because they rather be profitable with the Vita than sell a couple million more to satisfy their fans on the internet.

You say you studied business yet you speak only in terms of sales as "winning". Real life isn't all sales. Just ask all the AAA developers who have shut down even after selling millions of their games.



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Dark Chaos on 22 June 2014
thismeintiel said:
Intrinsic said:
Dark Chaos said:


Winning for who?? For shareholders? For gamers? Right now both consoles have great games and I would argue the X1 has the better exclusives. Also in terms of profit the Xbox division has been more profitable for the past couple of years.


So how is Sony winning? By sales? Do you think MS cares if Sony outsells them if they are making money will Sony doesn't.

Guess I have seen them all. 

Firstoff, this thread is (was) about if the X1 will ever catch or match the PS4 sales. I like most others have said it wouldn't and have gone on to explain why we think so. But you seem to not actually be talking about the sales thing at all, you seem to be saying that MS doesn't care if sony's PS4 sells more consoles and thus "wins" this console generation. Yet you talk about the MS divisions profits. Do you have any idea how those profits come by? 

But yh, MS doesn't care.

It seems to be the case with quite a few Xbox fans.  Can't talk sales, so they move on to profits.  Even when Sony's gaming division profits, they move on to the companies, as a whole.  Trying to hope/imagine some scenerio where Sony is going to go bankrupt in the next year or so, so the Xbox One will win by default.  Kinda sad when you have to hope for a competitor to go under, cause your fave company can't compete, otherwise.

Of course, what they fail to see is that while MS, as a whole, is doing very good, many investors are not happy with them shoving money into the Xbox division.  Something they see as a lost cause, now.  It's obvious how this gen is playing out on a WW scale, so MS throwing money around isn't going to change anything.  We saw this in March, when MS threw away money to not only get exclusivity for Titanfall, but also to be able to give it away free, in an already discounted bundle.  Sony still won NPD.  And once support for the 360 is dropped, and all that extra profit from it dwindles, MS's Xbox division isn't going to look so hot.


Who is a Xbox fan? So I if provide a argument you resort to childish accusations?? Isn't that being immature. Can't you provide a intelligent argument without resorting to childish attacks?

Remind when Sony's gaming division profited and how much they did over the past 5 years.



Dark Chaos on 22 June 2014
Dr.Henry_Killinger said:
Dark Chaos said:
Intrinsic said:
Dark Chaos said:


Winning for who?? For shareholders? For gamers? Right now both consoles have great games and I would argue the X1 has the better exclusives. Also in terms of profit the Xbox division has been more profitable for the past couple of years.


So how is Sony winning? By sales? Do you think MS cares if Sony outsells them if they are making money will Sony doesn't.

Guess I have seen them all. 

Firstoff, this thread is (was) about if the X1 will ever catch or match the PS4 sales. I like most others have said it wouldn't and have gone on to explain why we think so. But you seem to not actually be talking about the sales thing at all, you seem to be saying that MS doesn't care if sony's PS4 sells more consoles and thus "wins" this console generation. Yet you talk about the MS divisions profits. Do you have any idea how those profits come by? 

But yh, MS doesn't care.

The PS4 will outsell the X1, im not arguing that. I'm arguing the fact if that means whether a console is a success or not. The X360 was a success and I believe the X1 in the long run will be a success.

The profitability excuse is not only baseless but incorrect. Both systems are sold for a profit, but that excuse is only made when the goalposts are moved because the console you support is not in first.

Once Sony's gaming divison starts profiting I will agree. Until then we don't know for sure



RenCutypoison on 22 June 2014
Mystro-Sama said:
I think it will do better than the 360 :P


Only if first and third party support is maintained during 15 years, and there is a 50$ price tag after ten years for developping countries =p



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Aura7541 on 22 June 2014
Dark Chaos said:
Aura7541 said:
BeElite said:

As per topic.

Destiny will likely sink X1 for good, lots of halo and xbox loyalists are calling for Destiny boycotts cause they are ass hurt over their close deal with sony. This game will do 3or4-1 sales in PS4 favor.

It will set up the PS4 as the defacto Fps console for NA.  

The funny part is that if the X1 fans continue on with the hate campaign against Bungie, Bungie will eventually get pissed off enough that they will actually not develop games for the X1.

Do you actually believe that? You believe that they will stop making games because a few vocal fans on the internet outrage? Wanna make a bet or are you just trolling?

Chill, dude, chill.... If you disagree, just say you disagree instead of being so belligerent. Also, consolidate your comments or otherwise, you'll get in trouble for spamming.

Dark Chaos said:

For instance, if Sony loses a billion dollars while MS profits a billion dollars over the course of the generation. Only Forum dwellers discuss victories based on sales. Real life is based on money firstmost. In addition, I never argued that the PS4 would not be a success rather that I believe both the PS4 and X1 can both become success's in the long run.

Bolded is correct, but how you came to that conclusion is wrong. Real life also shows that MS is profiting a lot of money because their profits from their other divisions greatly overshadow the losses they suffer from the Xbox brand. Sony loses money because the losses they accumulate from restructuring efforts from spinning off their TV business and selling off their PC business outweigh the profits they make from their financial, Playstation, Music, Film, electronics, etc. divisions.



Dark Chaos on 22 June 2014
Aura7541 said:
Dark Chaos said:
ura7541 said:

The funny part is that if the X1 fans continue on with the hate campaign against Bungie, Bungie will eventually get pissed off enough that they will actually not develop games for the X1.

Do you actually believe that? You believe that they will stop making games because a few vocal fans on the internet outrage? Wanna make a bet or are you just trolling?

Chill, dude, chill.... If you disagree, just say you disagree instead of being so belligerent. Also, consolidate your comments or otherwise, you'll get in trouble for spamming.

Dark Chaos said:

For instance, if Sony loses a billion dollars while MS profits a billion dollars over the course of the generation. Only Forum dwellers discuss victories based on sales. Real life is based on money firstmost. In addition, I never argued that the PS4 would not be a success rather that I believe both the PS4 and X1 can both become success's in the long run.

Bolded is correct, but how you came to that conclusion is wrong. Real life also shows that MS is profiting a lot of money because their profits from their other divisions greatly overshadow the losses they suffer from the Xbox brand. Sony loses money because the losses they accumulate from restructuring efforts from spinning off their TV business and selling off their PC business outweigh the profits they make from their financial, Playstation, Music, Film, electronics, etc. divisions.

They didn't suffer any losses from the Xbox brand last year and for the past couple of years have been profitable. Sure it isn't making billions in profit like the other MS divisions, but who is. Also, the Playstation division on its own lost money last year.



TheBlackNaruto on 22 June 2014

Ok, I'l bite. So how exactly is the PS4 being the best selling console this gen not going to amke it a success for sony and their playstation division? Unless I am grossly mistaken if you look t sales of prcatically every multiplatform game they are higher on the PS4 than the XB1. And unless again I am mistaken thats where these console make their money from. And usually, the console with the larger install base typically sell the most amount of games. 

But pls tell me how all this somehow just gets twisted on its head if the console selling the best so happens to be a PS.

Can you tel me one thing that will somehow stop the PS4 from being a success if it hold this near 2:1 gap over the XB1 through out this gen? Mind you, 2:1 in 4yrs isn't 8M:4M, its at least 60M:30M. So how in your book will MS Xbox division be successful with 30M while sony's PS division lose with 60M????

For instance, if Sony loses a billion dollars while MS profits a billion dollars over the course of the generation. Only Forum dwellers discuss victories based on sales. Real life is based on money firstmost. In addition, I never argued that the PS4 would not be a success rather that I believe both the PS4 and X1 can both become success's in the long run.


Are you saning Sony as a whole or just the PS division and the XB division profits? And to your point it is obvious MS cares about Sony outselling them. Sony is their closest compeitior and they have invested a lot of money into the XB1. If they didn't care they wouldn't have changed so many of their polocies nor would they have cut the price of the XB1 already. So yes they indeed care.

And also case in point in a discusion about X1/PS4 of course people are going to discuss the sales of the two products. Do finaces of the two compaies matter? sure they do! But to they matter when discussing one out selling the other...no....even if it was the reverse. But also yes they can indeed both become a sucess for both companies. 



The absence of evidence is NOT the evidence of absence...

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Aura7541 on 22 June 2014
Dark Chaos said:

They didn't suffer any losses from the Xbox brand last year and for the past couple of years have been profitable. Sure it isn't making billions in profit like the other MS divisions, but who is. Also, the Playstation division on its own lost money last year.

Playstation division lost money last year because of the PS4 launch and write-offs from SOE. The amount of money Sony lost was miniscule in comparison to how much they lost when they launched the PS3 and even the PS2, which is the best selling console in history. So "Playstation lost money last year" doesn't help your argument at all.

Regardless of whether the Xbox brand has been profiting for a couple of years (which you haven't backed it up with evidence), it is still deep in the red, even if you don't include the first Xbox. The Xbox One is going to make that worse because all that R&D put into the Kinect is now wasted because of the debundling.



Dark Chaos on 22 June 2014
TheBlackNaruto said:

For instance, if Sony loses a billion dollars while MS profits a billion dollars over the course of the generation. Only Forum dwellers discuss victories based on sales. Real life is based on money firstmost. In addition, I never argued that the PS4 would not be a success rather that I believe both the PS4 and X1 can both become success's in the long run.


Are you saning Sony as a whole or just the PS division and the XB division profits? And to your point it is obvious MS cares about Sony outselling them. Sony is their closest compeitior and they have invested a lot of money into the XB1. If they didn't care they wouldn't have changed so many of their polocies nor would they have cut the price of the XB1 already. So yes they indeed care.

And also case in point in a discusion about X1/PS4 of course people are going to discuss the sales of the two products. Do finaces of the two compaies matter? sure they do! But to they matter when discussing one out selling the other...no....even if it was the reverse. But also yes they can indeed both become a sucess for both companies. 

The thread is not to discuss sales. The thread title assumes the PS4 will outsell the X1 and I agree, however I diasgree on it being a unsucessfull machine. Also, I'm talking about just their gaming divions.