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Forums - Sales Discussion - X1 will never catch or match PS4 sales, it is a misfired product.

Darwinianevolution said:

 

6. The PS brand is the strongest brand in this gen, but it could be much stronger if Sony wasn't in financial trouble. For example, they could have bought more Square Enix shares instead of selling them. They could have tried to buy Atlus, or try to get shares of Capcom now it's in trouble.




Wait why would they have bought more shares of Square Enix? They didn't sell them because of their finacial situations. To eb honest they should have sold them a long time ago. Sorry that part of the quote just seemded odd lol.



The absence of evidence is NOT the evidence of absence...

PSN: StlUzumaki23

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BillyBong said:
Dark_Feanor said:
Just to puting it straight.

PS4 and XOne are not competing alone at the same level PS3 and 360 were.

The world has changed. Microsoft right know treats the Xbox division like "a milking cow", it makes a reasenable amount of money. It´s not more a risk product. Microsoft tried with the XOne revel to move the console to the next level, but they had to step back to the "status quo".

If Sony´s loyalists belive that the PS4 lead alone can save Sony they are delusional. After the fenomenal launch the PS4 is already trailing behind the Wii back in 2007.

Think about the 3DS lead against the PS Vita and how that means little when you look at the smartphone and tablet markets. I wouldn´t be surprised if Sony alone sells more Xperia phones than Nintendo sells 3DSs.

uhmmm.. no.  Xbox division hardly a milking cow and is the least profitable division at MS.  "Microsoft makes more than 75% of its profits from Windows and Office.  Less than 25% comes from its vaunted servers and tools.  And Microsoft makes nothing from its xBox/Kinect entertainment division, while losing vast sums in its on-line division (negative $350M-$750M/quarter). " (http://www.forbes.com/sites/adamhartung/2013/01/20/sell-microsoft-now-game-over-ballmer-loses/)  Judging by this and the rumors of shareholders wanting to sell off the xbox divison makes it the most riskiest product.

Also, MS wanting to take the console to the next level of maximizing money pocketing is more like it.  MS went back the "status quo" because that's what the gamers wanted.  They voiced themselves and at the thought of losing sales, they had no choice but to go the "status quo".

And noone says that the PS4 lead will save Sony.  The playstation division is one of Sony's most successful division.  Uhmm.. yea.  And Sony's phenomenal launch is already trailing behind the Wii back in 2007.  So I wonder where that puts the X1?

Google.. it's not hard to do.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/adamhartung/2013/01/20/sell-microsoft-now-game-over-ballmer-loses/


WOW, this article is gold, and very unaccurated by using old and second hand reports (think Michal Pachter reports, but less precise).

Since this article was released Microsoft shares have rose more than 25% and Xbox division was profitable for 5 out of 6 quarters. 



CDiablo said:
theprof00 said:
 

1. That's just your theory. There was and is no evidence of this, especially what the cut would actually be.

Reason for my theory is there was not outcry from the industry. Face the logic, there HAD to be a cut going to the publishers. Publishers/devs bitch to no end about second hand sales. There would be a massive amount of bitching had both the end user and MS made money and not the devs. Shortly after this came to be knowledge EA dropped online passes, another sign of them believing that both Sony and MS were going to follow suit in going hybrid digital.

2. That was announced afterwards, if you recall, and again, it's one time. Still not physical ownership (which every other company offered)

Well the whole program never got announced(not that I think they would win people over with their "vision"), tbh. But this was announced at some time validating what I said

3. If you recall, Gamestop was extremely pissed off. So, that strategy didn't work so well. Gamestop even halted preorders. Again, online check didn't have to be required. An online check whenever the system went online however, would have sufficed. Sure maybe someone would be able to go a couple months before their game was deactivated from the system, but how much of a problem would it have caused, really?

I dont recall Gamestop bing that pissed off. I can only find articles about how they were concerned cause they werent given full details on how it worked and I cannot find anything about halting preorders except it "selling out" at gamestop. Onine check would be required because people would buy games register and install, go back the next day trade the game in, unplug from the internet and beat the game while getting back maximum trade value. It would have caused a major problem. I dont know if you hand around on deal websites but many people game the system as much as possible. This would leave major space for exploits.

4. Yes, I actually wrote that in the paragraph, and also addressed it. You couldn't play YOUR account with a different game on your home xb1 while your friend was borrowing and playing your game. Not very smart.

I think the family share plan was supposed to address that, but I think the whole family plan thing was an afterthought. Steam only recently added this feature after being around for like 11 years.

5. MS tried to use xb1 as a trojan horse. I've written several threads about this already, and just how many shoestrings tied this boot together. They were pushing to integrate azure into every major retailer. They were trying to get all businesses onto the azure cloud. They wanted to get into the ratings (like nielsen) business. They wanted control and profit off of the secondary market. They wanted control of imports (remember they disallowed importing based on IP addresses. This was actually in their plan until they abandoned it). They wanted tv control. They required devs to make content for windows phone if they wanted to make xb1 games until the id# program. They required games to be equal or better on xb1. They didn't allow indies to make games on xb1 if they made the ps4 one first...they both had to come out at the same time. They wanted control of the servers for every game. They bought out exclusive sports packages.

That's just your theory. There was and is no evidence of this(you might be right about the W8 phone thing). They still have the parity thing for indys, how disappointing that they didnt kill it publicly during E3. They kind of have since Sony has been using the term "console first/debut" as opposed to console exclusive for most indy games. The tin foil hat wearing parity theory of games having to be the same resoultion/framerate makes more sense than what MS is doing with release date parity.

It's really amazing everything they tried to control with this system. Making devs and businesses happy was an afterthought. They didn't sit at a table and say, "what can we do to improve the industry", they said, "How can we make more money, and keep everyone else happy enough to eat the scraps from our table".

I firmly dont believe that. I dont think they said "what can we do to improve the industry" but "what can we do to bring more money into the gaming(=our) ecosystem." The whole system was set up to give gamers/retailers a similar experience to what they were used to as well as to allow game publishers(potentially themselves) to get a cut of used sales. In the end it was really all for themselves(more happy devs=more games, more profit/retailers still give them shelf space/moves consumers towards digital future that the industry wants), but that is what every business does.  No company says "what can we do to improve the industry" it will always be "how can we get the most money into our ecosystem." Nintendo and Sony are no more noble than MS.



I think the best I can hope for out of this discussion is, "while you havea  point with x, and believe more firmly that y was what was actually happening. I see your argument, but I don't think it's entirely accurate."

....so I'm not going to keep arguing. I'll just wait for the word to eventually come out itself, and then I'll get back to you. I know I'm right, I don't need to convince you.



Dark_Feanor said:
BillyBong said:
Dark_Feanor said:
Just to puting it straight.

PS4 and XOne are not competing alone at the same level PS3 and 360 were.

The world has changed. Microsoft right know treats the Xbox division like "a milking cow", it makes a reasenable amount of money. It´s not more a risk product. Microsoft tried with the XOne revel to move the console to the next level, but they had to step back to the "status quo".

If Sony´s loyalists belive that the PS4 lead alone can save Sony they are delusional. After the fenomenal launch the PS4 is already trailing behind the Wii back in 2007.

Think about the 3DS lead against the PS Vita and how that means little when you look at the smartphone and tablet markets. I wouldn´t be surprised if Sony alone sells more Xperia phones than Nintendo sells 3DSs.

uhmmm.. no.  Xbox division hardly a milking cow and is the least profitable division at MS.  "Microsoft makes more than 75% of its profits from Windows and Office.  Less than 25% comes from its vaunted servers and tools.  And Microsoft makes nothing from its xBox/Kinect entertainment division, while losing vast sums in its on-line division (negative $350M-$750M/quarter). " (http://www.forbes.com/sites/adamhartung/2013/01/20/sell-microsoft-now-game-over-ballmer-loses/)  Judging by this and the rumors of shareholders wanting to sell off the xbox divison makes it the most riskiest product.

Also, MS wanting to take the console to the next level of maximizing money pocketing is more like it.  MS went back the "status quo" because that's what the gamers wanted.  They voiced themselves and at the thought of losing sales, they had no choice but to go the "status quo".

And noone says that the PS4 lead will save Sony.  The playstation division is one of Sony's most successful division.  Uhmm.. yea.  And Sony's phenomenal launch is already trailing behind the Wii back in 2007.  So I wonder where that puts the X1?

Google.. it's not hard to do.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/adamhartung/2013/01/20/sell-microsoft-now-game-over-ballmer-loses/


WOW, this article is gold, and very unaccurated by using old and second hand reports (think Michal Pachter reports, but less precise).

Since this article was released Microsoft shares have rose more than 25% and Xbox division was profitable for 5 out of 6 quarters. 


Uhm.. this was released in Jan 2013.  1 year old article stating MS's state of economics by an market news source and to add MS with a new console and you, an armchair warrior market analysis, believe they are making money off xbox?  sure guy..

Might I also suggest http://www.extremetech.com/computing/175350-microsoft-delivers-record-revenue-profits-due-to-strong-xbox-windows-phone-and-commercial-sales.  Yes.. record profits, but hardly because of xbox.  in the article itself, it states, "On the consumer side of things, Microsoft might eventually make some good money from Surface, Xbox, and Windows Phone, but at this point I think it’s pretty certain that we’re not going to see a massive billions-of-dollars-in-profit breakout hit like the iPad or iPhone. At best, Microsoft can expect some steady revenue and profit growth from the Xbox — and if it plays its cards right, 2014 might finally be the year that Surface and Windows Phone turn a profit."  Nothing about xbox making money or profitting from that division.  Also, "While the Xbox One and Xbox 360 sold 3.9 million and 3.5 million units respectively, gross margins for the Devices & Consumer Hardware division were down 46% to $0.4 billion. Total Surface revenue doubled to $0.89 billion (probably selling around 1 million Surface tablets), but costs also spiked to $0.93 billion (probably due to marketing and slim margins on the Surface tablets)."  Again, nothing about Xbox.  And this article was at the beginning of this year.  Cow Milk.. mmmm.



Man.. I hate it when your girl has to leave my place to come back to you..

Dark_Feanor said:

1 - Look at Steam, Apple Store and Amazon Prime.

2 - Well, you can find many threads here comparing PS4 to Wii. But I will add, PS4 is risking puting numbers bellow the 360 first summer.

 

Dude, are you a Sony shareholder? I can you I´m not a Microsoft or Sony or any other company investidor. But look at those curvers fro mthe last year and tell me how Sony "winning" helped them.

http://finance.yahoo.com/echarts?s=SNE#symbol=sne;range=1y;compare=msft;indicator=volume;charttype=area;crosshair=on;ohlcvalues=0;logscale=off;source=;

  1. Looking at them..... and that has absolutely nothing to do with what MS was trying to do. So stil waiting for you to tell us how MS was trying to take anything to the next level.
  2. Below 360's first summer? In the entire first year of the 360 it sold 7.6M units worldwide. The PS4 has outsold it in its first 6 months on the market. And you are talking about the 360s first summer? The Wii did 20M in its first year, I really don't see how that has anything to do with the PS4 being the best selling console on the market today. Or what that has to do with the XB1 catching the PS4.
And again, I do not know what sony as a company has to do with this thread talking about which console is going to sell better. You are trying to derail the focus of this conversation to bringing in things that have nothing to do with the discussion at hand. First you mentioned wii sales, then yu are talking about 360 sales (which were false by the way) and now you are talking about how sony's woes as a compan that makes more than just the PS4 somehow makes the fact that the PS4 is the best selling console irrelevant?


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You know you've won a debate when the other side has to resort to talking about irrelevant issues (aka. Red Herrings like Sony's stock performance) because they have nothing better to say.



sales2099 said:

More bold responses in quote itself.

What is really funny is that the X1/PS4 is just 7 months old and you talk like its all said and done, especially with the predictions you made, especailly with you so sure about NA. At the same time, we all know what you are saying, but you feel you had to repeat it with your own personal smugness thrown in (and happily doing so).

Serious question: Do you actually get pleasure from PS4 leading in sales? I know I did last gen.


Yes only 7 months, but even MS agrees.  "History has shown us that the first company to reach 10 million in console sales wins the generation battle." Xbox is as done as done can be for the gen.

Its easy to be sure about NA, look at the 360/PS3 see the price they sold as and its rather easy to see Xbox One at 399 will fail in the face of the far superior PS4.

I get great pleasure seeing the averagefool consumer choose the best product at the best price thats best for them.  Not one that tried to erode their rights and options and freedoms.  Its a pleasure seeing something win for the right reasons and another fail for their nazi like drive to control and fuck over people.  None with any common sense would support MS after what they tried to do.



Intrinsic said:
  1. Looking at them..... and that has absolutely nothing to do with what MS was trying to do. So stil waiting for you to tell us how MS was trying to take anything to the next level.
  2. Below 360's first summer? In the entire first year of the 360 it sold 7.6M units worldwide. The PS4 has outsold it in its first 6 months on the market. And you are talking about the 360s first summer? The Wii did 20M in its first year, I really don't see how that has anything to do with the PS4 being the best selling console on the market today. Or what that has to do with the XB1 catching the PS4.
And again, I do not know what sony as a company has to do with this thread talking about which console is going to sell better. You are trying to derail the focus of this conversation to bringing in things that have nothing to do with the discussion at hand. First you mentioned wii sales, then yu are talking about 360 sales (which were false by the way) and now you are talking about how sony's woes as a compan that makes more than just the PS4 somehow makes the fact that the PS4 is the best selling console irrelevant?

 

Sales for the summer, not accumulated... But I was wrong, 360 sales for that summer were very low if VGChartz is correct I doubt PS4 will go that low. But might be lower than the last few PS3 and 360 years.

Dude, I don´t know if you are new or not at this forum, but there are tons of threads comparing PS4 launch if Wii launch. You just don´t want to accept any of my points, the same way others refuse any atempt Microsoft makes to improve the XOne value.

PS: Don´t hold to VGChartz numbers right now. In the last 2 weeks Sony had 3 oportunities to say they "sold more than" or "close to" 8mi PS4 consoles.



BillyBong said:

Uhm.. this was released in Jan 2013.  1 year old article stating MS's state of economics by an market news source and to add MS with a new console and you, an armchair warrior market analysis, believe they are making money off xbox?  sure guy..

Might I also suggest http://www.extremetech.com/computing/175350-microsoft-delivers-record-revenue-profits-due-to-strong-xbox-windows-phone-and-commercial-sales.  Yes.. record profits, but hardly because of xbox.  in the article itself, it states, "On the consumer side of things, Microsoft might eventually make some good money from Surface, Xbox, and Windows Phone, but at this point I think it’s pretty certain that we’re not going to see a massive billions-of-dollars-in-profit breakout hit like the iPad or iPhone. At best, Microsoft can expect some steady revenue and profit growth from the Xbox — and if it plays its cards right, 2014 might finally be the year that Surface and Windows Phone turn a profit."  Nothing about xbox making money or profitting from that division.  Also, "While the Xbox One and Xbox 360 sold 3.9 million and 3.5 million units respectively, gross margins for the Devices & Consumer Hardware division were down 46% to $0.4 billion. Total Surface revenue doubled to $0.89 billion (probably selling around 1 million Surface tablets), but costs also spiked to $0.93 billion (probably due to marketing and slim margins on the Surface tablets)."  Again, nothing about Xbox.  And this article was at the beginning of this year.  Cow Milk.. mmmm.

Who knows how much money MS has lost from the X1, especially after all that R&D on the Kinect only for the peripheral to be made non-mandatory.



Dark_Feanor said:

tons of threads comparing PS4 launch if Wii launch. You just don´t want to accept any of my points, the same way others refuse any atempt Microsoft makes to improve the XOne value.

 


So how did they improve the value ? i gess best way would have been to drop the price to 399, but they didnt they cut kiect out to do that.  Stand alone kinect costs 200, Ms only cut the X1 price by 100.  So where the hell is the added value ? 

Wait did they add rechargable batteries ($25) for free like PS4 has or the ability to plug in any headhones (another 25$ MS add on cost) to do what PS4 lets you right from the box.  You have to spend $50 extra just to give the X1 basic functions PS4 comes with at 399