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Forums - Sales - X1 will never catch or match PS4 sales, it is a misfired product.

sales2099 said:

X1 is now a great product with all cons of last year gone. Frequent updates and it is getting many great big name games you can't find on PS4.

That said, PS4's lead will only be greater with its brand power and ensure 3rd parties siding more and more with them. When Sony wins, everybody else loses. If you all want to know why I don't like Sony, that is why. Last gen, PS3 "lost" but everybody prospered, including PS3. Now, Sony wins at everybody else's expense.

That's an awfully strange reason to dislike Sony. That situation arises because a single platform dominates the generation by a large margin, not because it's Sony :p 

During the start of the last gen the 360 was "dominating" thanks to its year lead and the PS3's launch fuck ups. Thanks to that lead the 360 gained several advantages at the expense of the PS3 (until the gap started becoming less significant). The same could be said about the DS over the PSP, or the 3DS over the Vita. One dominates at the expense of the other. That's how it's always been (not just in gaming either).

I'd say the Wii's early years are the only major exception, but that was due to it dominating in a market neither the PS3 or 360 had much of a presence in. As far as the "core" market went, the Wii didn't really dominate at all, thus didn't receive the benefits.



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After watching E3, while I thought MS and Sony tied in their press conferences, Sony still came out as the overall winner mainly because of their relationship with 3rd parties. Because a bunch of 3rd party games either have exclusive content, early access to alpha/beta, and/or timed exclusivity, consumers have the impression that they're PS4 exclusives. We all saw how that turned out with Watch Dogs. This allows Sony to save their 1st party games in their back pocket and consequently, leave them prepared for the next 1-2 years. Meanwhile, MS doesn't have that luxury and are forced to show their hand because multiplats won't help the X1 nearly as much as they'll help the PS4 and thus, MS has to bring out their guns (exclusives) to fight back.



I think every console in thig gen wil sell a lot less than their predecessor (I don't think PS4 will even reach 90 millions, that alone pass the 100m mark). Nhe new consoles still compete with the last gen, PC and tablet gaming keep growing, the 8th and 7th gen are not that different, bad advertising for WiiU, the Xbone policies fiasco, Sony's financial problems...



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CDiablo said:
theprof00 said:

Bolded is not true, and is a complete exaggeration of the point.

MS wanted to give gamers what they wanted, but only in the way MS saw profit to be made.

There was no reason to tie digital to MS ownership. There was no reason to require MS to be paid for trade-ins at gamestop for used games. It would only increase consumer costs, or hurt gamestop.

I dont think MS was getting paid just the game devs. Publishers have been bitching about used sales forever and this was MS's anwser. Publishers loved the old X1 ecosystem.

Fact: There was NO way to trade your disc-based games, that you physically own on ebay or any other marketplace. MS got a cut of every used sale. Look it up. This isn't FUD. There was no reason for this.

They announced you can do a 1 time license transfer to friends, so you could theoritically sell them without anyone getting a cut

Fact: You couldn't play your disc-based games without an online checkin. A certain someone was even fired for mocking people about being always online. Yet somehow steam is able to allow offline play of digital games. Funny.

The reason is they wanted to do a all digital system, but not piss off retailers. This way there is still incentive for major retailers to carry XBone. The disks were merely install disks and each game would come with a licence key that you register to your account, like steam. The 24 hour check was so you dont install the game unplug from the internet, then sell the game(license) to gamestop

Fact: You could not play your disc game on a friend's xb1. There were literally arguments defending this saying "oh I'll just bring my xb1 to my friend's house, big deal". Or "I can if I log-in with my profile", yet if you let a friend borrow game A and you wanted to play game B, you physically could not play different games at the same time on different xb1s, because you could not use the same login at two places at once. It's like "*ring ring* Hey bill, it's me, I let you borrow halo, but I want to play fifa now, so can you please log out of my account. I'll text you when I'm done".

You can play your games on a friends X1 as long as your XBL was logged in on their console

Fact: The family share has literally NEVER EVER BEEN FULLY EXPLAINED. EVER. IN HISTORY.

There were no features that had to be done the way MS wanted to do them. MS just decided what the most profitable way was, and made all their decisions based on that. That's not a terrible way to make money, but it's also important to wonder whether a consumer will actually support that. They did not.

MS's goal was to push the all digitial future that publishers/(some)devs want. They didnt want to sever ties with big box giants like Walmart so(some madman) tried creating some sort of digital/physical hybrid. If MS announced an all digital system all the big sellers would not sell the hardware because the money profit in the gaming industry has always been in software sales. MS was trying to balance customers, retailers and resellers all while keeping games in a digital enviroment. It is a bad idea, hopefully never to be seen or heard of again. If steam tried this shit Im sure they would not get the flack MS gets. They just dont let you resell games at all.



1. That's just your theory. There was and is no evidence of this, especially what the cut would actually be.

2. That was announced afterwards, if you recall, and again, it's one time. Still not physical ownership (which every other company offered)

3. If you recall, Gamestop was extremely pissed off. So, that strategy didn't work so well. Gamestop even halted preorders. Again, online check didn't have to be required. An online check whenever the system went online however, would have sufficed. Sure maybe someone would be able to go a couple months before their game was deactivated from the system, but how much of a problem would it have caused, really?

4. Yes, I actually wrote that in the paragraph, and also addressed it. You couldn't play YOUR account with a different game on your home xb1 while your friend was borrowing and playing your game. Not very smart.

5. MS tried to use xb1 as a trojan horse. I've written several threads about this already, and just how many shoestrings tied this boot together. They were pushing to integrate azure into every major retailer. They were trying to get all businesses onto the azure cloud. They wanted to get into the ratings (like nielsen) business. They wanted control and profit off of the secondary market. They wanted control of imports (remember they disallowed importing based on IP addresses. This was actually in their plan until they abandoned it). They wanted tv control. They required devs to make content for windows phone if they wanted to make xb1 games until the id# program. They required games to be equal or better on xb1. They didn't allow indies to make games on xb1 if they made the ps4 one first...they both had to come out at the same time. They wanted control of the servers for every game. They bought out exclusive sports packages.

It's really amazing everything they tried to control with this system. Making devs and businesses happy was an afterthought. They didn't sit at a table and say, "what can we do to improve the industry", they said, "How can we make more money, and keep everyone else happy enough to eat the scraps from our table".



Xbox One at $399 with Halo Collection will allow the Xbox one to outsell the PS4 in NA. Xbox one division actually been doing great in terms of profit from 2008 and above.



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never happen .i give xboxone 25-35 mill .. why .because only fanboys buy the xbox ,nobody want it



Darwinianevolution said:
I think every console in thig gen wil sell a lot less than their predecessor (I don't think PS4 will even reach 90 millions, that alone pass the 100m mark). 1. Nhe new consoles still compete with the last gen, 2. PC and tablet gaming keep growing, the 3. 8th and 7th gen are not that different, 4. bad advertising for WiiU, the 5. Xbone policies fiasco, 6. Sony's financial problems...

those reasons hold no water...

  1. New consoles kinda always compete with the old. in some way or the other. 
  2. Two non iclusive markets. People won't stop gaming on consoles cause they game on tablets and console gaming is still the easier gaming platform for the mass market.
  3. not relevant. At some point, the only place to buy games will be on the 8th gen. so unless everyone that has an 7th gen console just decides they don't wanna play games anymore, they will migrate to the 8th.
  4. I'll give you that, though its the least of the wiiU's problems.
  5. Give you this too, though thing about policies is that they can be turned around. Id sony could survive $599, MS can certainly survive ideas they never even implemented.
  6. oh, so sony doesn't have enough money to make enough consoles? Ok, got you.


Just to puting it straight.

PS4 and XOne are not competing alone at the same level PS3 and 360 were.

The world has changed. Microsoft right know treats the Xbox division like "a milking cow", it makes a reasenable amount of money. It´s not more a risk product. Microsoft tried with the XOne revel to move the console to the next level, but they had to step back to the "status quo".

If Sony´s loyalists belive that the PS4 lead alone can save Sony they are delusional. After the fenomenal launch the PS4 is already trailing behind the Wii back in 2007.

Think about the 3DS lead against the PS Vita and how that means little when you look at the smartphone and tablet markets. I wouldn´t be surprised if Sony alone sells more Xperia phones than Nintendo sells 3DSs.



Intrinsic said:
Darwinianevolution said:
I think every console in thig gen wil sell a lot less than their predecessor (I don't think PS4 will even reach 90 millions, that alone pass the 100m mark). 1. Nhe new consoles still compete with the last gen, 2. PC and tablet gaming keep growing, the 3. 8th and 7th gen are not that different, 4. bad advertising for WiiU, the 5. Xbone policies fiasco, 6. Sony's financial problems...

those reasons hold no water...

 

  1. New consoles kinda always compete with the old. in some way or the other. 
  2. Two non iclusive markets. People won't stop gaming on consoles cause they game on tablets and console gaming is still the easier gaming platform for the mass market.
  3. not relevant. At some point, the only place to buy games will be on the 8th gen. so unless everyone that has an 7th gen console just decides they don't wanna play games anymore, they will migrate to the 8th.
  4. I'll give you that, though its the least of the wiiU's problems.
  5. Give you this too, though thing about policies is that they can be turned around. Id sony could survive $599, MS can certainly survive ideas they never even implemented.
  6. oh, so sony doesn't have enough money to make enough consoles? Ok, got you.

 


I see your reasons, but I think this problems are important.

1. Yes, there is always competition between gens, but I'm seeing most games appear in new and old devices alike than in every other moment. This is going to hurt the sales of the firt three years (in my opinion, the maximum time to abandon the last gen), so hardware sales will not start to really grow untilll that time. And every gen now lasts between 6 or 8 years before it starts the next one, so it's a lot of time.

2. PCs and tablets are intrusive markets. Tablets and moblie gaming are hurting dedicated gaming handhelds, and PCs will hurt console sales as well. The cheaper digital distribution becomes and the easier to get PC hardware gets, the more and more ground PCs will take from consoles.

3. Watch point 1.

6. The PS brand is the strongest brand in this gen, but it could be much stronger if Sony wasn't in financial trouble. For example, they could have bought more Square Enix shares instead of selling them. They could have tried to buy Atlus, or try to get shares of Capcom now it's in trouble.





You know it deserves the GOTY.

Come join The 2018 Obscure Game Monthly Review Thread.

Dark_Feanor said:
It took Sony 3 years and 5bi losses to start turn the PS3 arround.

Microsoft in 6 months removed all that people here complained about. And for that same people that asked for no DRM, no apps pay wall and no Kinect are the same saing XOne has no chance against the all might PS4.

For those people dosen´t matter the price, dosen´t matter the apps and eccosistem, doesn´t matter the games the XOne is doomed.

Now the XOne is just a more powerfull 360, just as the PS4 is a more power PS3. Thinking consumers will still wonder about multiplat resolution is, with all respect, BULL SHIT.


It's not the same game that was played out last generation.  The PS3 had better build quality than the competition, more developer support, a blu-ray drive that the competition lacked, and other contributing factors that led to it's being able to catch up and eventually overtake the 360.

This generation, the console that is lagging is SIGNIFICANTLY less powerful, has less developer support, less games available to play on the console (knock "indies" all you want, but they are there, and people do buy them and play them!), and most importantly, they lost the trust of a good deal of their customers, myself included. 

Last generation, I started out with a 360 (replaced twice due to RROD...how many "sales" were replacements last gen, I wonder?) and then bought a PS3 later.  This generation, I am skipping the Xbox completely.  There just isn't enough to compell me to spend another $600 on their system (console, extra controllers, battery packs, headphone adaptors, etc).  I bought the more powerful console that has more games (and more diverse games).  I am sure many others are making the same decision...as a matter of fact, I am sure of it!  If you look at the sales numbers, the VAST majority of Xbox One consoles were purchased in Nov and Dec last year...early adopters who bought purely on faith, to the tune of 3 million consoles.  Now, here we are SIX MONTHS later, and they havent even cracked 5 million!  I would be VERY surprised if they did 7 million by the end of the year.

Halo isn't going to save them, Sunset Overhype isn't going to save them, DX12 isn't going to fix things.  They need games, NOW...but "AAA" exclusives are hard to come by these days (especially after Titanflop)...and even if they signed someone up, it would be 2-3 YEARS before a game started today is ready for launch....by that time, it will be far too late.