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Forums - Nintendo - Zelda for Wii U Wishlist

Saying artstyle isn't important is silly. Visuals are an important part of any game, and they set the feeling, tone and escapism. I don't want another Disney-style cartoon, and I don't want the next game to look like a watercolor painting. Both styles broke some realism and immersion for me. I want to look at a magical world, not a painting of a magical world. No matter how pretty they were.

I want:
-Mature Link and style.
-Artstyle can be a variety of things (the references to Journey are fine), but it should be cool and magical and feel like an escape. A good mix of creepy and beautiful. Wii U is powerful, so it shouldn't use a cop-out like cell-shading or watercolor to make it pretty.
-World: open is good. Detail is also good. But I don't mind some wide open expanses that are filler. That makes the places that have stuff to do feel more significant, and gives you a feeling of scope. A couple of modes of transportation would be cool. Perhaps a mix of horse, a section of the game off the coast in boat as mentioned, and maybe a cool version of the bird at the end. There should also be multiple towns to visit.
-No hand holding. At all.
-Story. Something epic and unique would be good.
-Voice Acting. Yes please.
-Controls: Traditional please, no motion. Except maybe using the Gamepad to control flight like a steering wheel... that could be cool.
-Action. I want more. Less Z-Targeting, more spontaneous, multi-enemy battles.
-Less item-specific dungeons. The puzzles are too easy to figure out when you know what tool to use.
-Upgrades to Link's armor. I want Blue link in chain mail, maybe Red Link in plate.

Mostly I want a fantastical journey. Perhaps a chapter where you ride on the back of a giant creature so big it has a village on it to a far-off land. Ruined civilizations. A series of unique towns with unique problems to solve. And a fresh feel to the gameplay. Since the move from 2D to 3D we've been a bit stuck with the z-targeting routine and character development. I'd like a fresh approach to combat and item collection.



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HoloDust said:
I have only one wish - keep Aonuma away from Zelda.


Why the hell would they do that?



I really disagree with a lot of your OP.



TheLastStarFighter said:
Saying artstyle isn't important is silly. Visuals are an important part of any game, and they set the feeling, tone and escapism. I don't want another Disney-style cartoon, and I don't want the next game to look like a watercolor painting. Both styles broke some realism and immersion for me. I want to look at a magical world, not a painting of a magical world. No matter how pretty they were.

Wait, did I say artstyle isn't important? Because it totally is. I don't feel like any of the games were a Disney style cartoon. I don't feel that any zelda game has ever strove for realism aside from TP, so I'm not really sure how stylized graphics could break realism in a series like this. To each his own, I guess.


I want:
-Mature Link and style.

Eh...

-Artstyle can be a variety of things (the references to Journey are fine), but it should be cool and magical and feel like an escape. A good mix of creepy and beautiful. Wii U is powerful, so it shouldn't use a cop-out like cell-shading or watercolor to make it pretty.

The artstyles have never been a cop out. And by your standards, something resembling Journey would be a huge copout. That whole game uses textures as simple as the Wind Waker and polygons as low as Skyward Sword. It's all stylistic substance that makes that game look good. It's definitely not pushing the hardware. Creepy and beautiful would be a cool combination if the artstule was unique enough. I'd be down.

-World: open is good. Detail is also good. But I don't mind some wide open expanses that are filler. That makes the places that have stuff to do feel more significant, and gives you a feeling of scope. A couple of modes of transportation would be cool. Perhaps a mix of horse, a section of the game off the coast in boat as mentioned, and maybe a cool version of the bird at the end. There should also be multiple towns to visit.

I always imagine it being like if ALttP's Hyrule were to be remade into a 3D game. All the areas are dense, but the whole world is connected and seemless. As much as people like to shit on Skyward Sword, especially me, it has the best and most "Zelda" overworld design of any 3D Zelda when it comes to it's land sections. It's unfortunate that the three major areas were recycled and so segmented from each other. If all the recycled areas were completely new area's instead, and if it were all cohesively connected through routes that were just as dense as the main areas, like in the 2D games, SS could be a shoe in for the best Zelda so far. So much potencial lost.

But yeah, personally, if the game really needs a giant empty expanse to give it the feeling of scope, that's a flaw of how the game is designed. I wouldn't mind Epona returning. Like I said, I like her as a character. But I'd want her to stay in the stable. Maybe there's a giant completely optional horse ranch field where you can ride around on her and complete minigames. As long as it's optional and doesn't tamper with the core level design, because any vast empty space where nothing going on is wasted space and bad game design if it isn't serving a good enough reason for it, and I don't personally feel like forcing the player to break pace to artificially convey scale is a good enough reason. It feels more like being lazy.

-No hand holding. At all.

Agree.

-Story. Something epic and unique would be good.

As long as it doesn't ruin the start of the game with exposition, I'm down.

-Voice Acting. Yes please.

Agree with your agreeing.

-Controls: Traditional please, no motion. Except maybe using the Gamepad to control flight like a steering wheel... that could be cool.

Only if that's optional, lol.

-Action. I want more. Less Z-Targeting, more spontaneous, multi-enemy battles.

Less Z-targeting? You know that revolutionized 3D combat, right? Aside from it's scale, Z-targeting is the biggest mechanical reason why OoT is such an influencial game.

-Less item-specific dungeons. The puzzles are too easy to figure out when you know what tool to use.

Agree.

-Upgrades to Link's armor. I want Blue link in chain mail, maybe Red Link in plate.

I... I'd have to see. That could be cool if done right.

Mostly I want a fantastical journey. Perhaps a chapter where you ride on the back of a giant creature so big it has a village on it to a far-off land. Ruined civilizations. A series of unique towns with unique problems to solve. And a fresh feel to the gameplay. Since the move from 2D to 3D we've been a bit stuck with the z-targeting routine and character development. I'd like a fresh approach to combat and item collection.

Too many towns would bother me, but I feel like OoT had the perfect max of communities. If this game had that many, I'd be down. I'd be fine with less, though. I'd like the core battle mechanics like Z-targeting to remain untouched though lol. It's what made me fall in love with the series. 


Comments in BOLD and italics.

MohammadBadir said:
I really disagree with a lot of your OP.


Like what, lol? Please share your conflicts.



spemanig said:

 

Wait, did I say artstyle isn't important? Because it totally is. I don't feel like any of the games were a Disney style cartoon. I don't feel that any zelda game has ever strove for realism aside from TP, so I'm not really sure how stylized graphics could break realism in a series like this. To each his own, I guess.

 

-> You've been talking about how fans shouldn't have their panties in a bunch over artstyle.  I'm saying they have every right, since it's a very important part of the game.  WW was definitely like a Disney movie brought to life, and they have even stated that's what they are going for. Most Zelda's actually strived for realism.  OoT was as realistic as anything of its day, as was LoZ or AoL or ALttP.


I want:
-Mature Link and style.

Eh...

-Artstyle can be a variety of things (the references to Journey are fine), but it should be cool and magical and feel like an escape. A good mix of creepy and beautiful. Wii U is powerful, so it shouldn't use a cop-out like cell-shading or watercolor to make it pretty.

The artstyles have never been a cop out. And by your standards, something resembling Journey would be a huge copout. That whole game uses textures as simple as the Wind Waker and polygons as low as Skyward Sword. It's all stylistic substance that makes that game look good. It's definitely not pushing the hardware. Creepy and beautiful would be a cool combination if the artstule was unique enough. I'd be down.

-> WW and SS were both to some extent a cop out.  SS in particular was... they chose the style because they couldn't make graphics that would impressive late in the Wii lifecycle when compared to HD systems.  So they went with the watercolor/surealism and artistic flair.

-World: open is good. Detail is also good. But I don't mind some wide open expanses that are filler. That makes the places that have stuff to do feel more significant, and gives you a feeling of scope. A couple of modes of transportation would be cool. Perhaps a mix of horse, a section of the game off the coast in boat as mentioned, and maybe a cool version of the bird at the end. There should also be multiple towns to visit.

I always imagine it being like if ALttP's Hyrule were to be remade into a 3D game. All the areas are dense, but the whole world is connected and seemless. As much as people like to shit on Skyward Sword, especially me, it has the best and most "Zelda" overworld design of any 3D Zelda when it comes to it's land sections. It's unfortunate that the three major areas were recycled and so segmented from each other. If all the recycled areas were completely new area's instead, and if it were all cohesively connected through routes that were just as dense as the main areas, like in the 2D games, SS could be a shoe in for the best Zelda so far. So much potencial lost.

But yeah, personally, if the game really needs a giant empty expanse to give it the feeling of scope, that's a flaw of how the game is designed. I wouldn't mind Epona returning. Like I said, I like her as a character. But I'd want her to stay in the stable. Maybe there's a giant completely optional horse ranch field where you can ride around on her and complete minigames. As long as it's optional and doesn't tamper with the core level design, because any vast empty space where nothing going on is wasted space and bad game design if it isn't serving a good enough reason for it, and I don't personally feel like forcing the player to break pace to artificially convey scale is a good enough reason. It feels more like being lazy.

-> A lot of space isn't a flaw.  THe goal of Zelda has always been bringing the outdoors in.  I go hiking a lot seeking waterfalls.  On any good adventure journey there is a drive along the coast, a long walk through the woods, bridges, woodland creatures and then finally the waterfall.  Without that lead up, there would be no sense of escape, no appreciation for the vastnesss of nature.  In a dense world filled with nothing but relavent objects, you miss the sense of wonder and exploration.  Non-important things make the important things important.

-No hand holding. At all.

Agree.

-Story. Something epic and unique would be good.

As long as it doesn't ruin the start of the game with exposition, I'm down.

-Voice Acting. Yes please.

Agree with your agreeing.

-Controls: Traditional please, no motion. Except maybe using the Gamepad to control flight like a steering wheel... that could be cool.

Only if that's optional, lol.

-Action. I want more. Less Z-Targeting, more spontaneous, multi-enemy battles.

Less Z-targeting? You know that revolutionized 3D combat, right? Aside from it's scale, Z-targeting is the biggest mechanical reason why OoT is such an influencial game.

-> Z-targeting revolutionized 3D combat... in 1998.  SInce then there have been many advancements, including a second analogue stick.  Zelda could learn some things (not all things) from the BatmanAA series.

-Less item-specific dungeons. The puzzles are too easy to figure out when you know what tool to use.

Agree.

-Upgrades to Link's armor. I want Blue link in chain mail, maybe Red Link in plate.

I... I'd have to see. That could be cool if done right.

 -> Not a new concept.  It's from the original Zelda.  I want it back.

Mostly I want a fantastical journey. Perhaps a chapter where you ride on the back of a giant creature so big it has a village on it to a far-off land. Ruined civilizations. A series of unique towns with unique problems to solve. And a fresh feel to the gameplay. Since the move from 2D to 3D we've been a bit stuck with the z-targeting routine and character development. I'd like a fresh approach to combat and item collection.

Too many towns would bother me, but I feel like OoT had the perfect max of communities. If this game had that many, I'd be down. I'd be fine with less, though. I'd like the core battle mechanics like Z-targeting to remain untouched though lol. It's what made me fall in love with the series. 

-> I want more.  AoL was headed in the right direction with a large world, but the series went smaller ever since.  I want something more vast.


 



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TheLastStarFighter said:
spemanig said:

 

-> You've been talking about how fans shouldn't have their panties in a bunch over artstyle.  I'm saying they have every right, since it's a very important part of the game.  WW was definitely like a Disney movie brought to life, and they have even stated that's what they are going for. Most Zelda's actually strived for realism.  OoT was as realistic as anything of its day, as was LoZ or AoL or ALttP.

I think you misunderstand; I have no qualms fans having and voicing an opinion, but the fact is that artstyle is completely subjective. If an artstyle doesn't match your preference, I think someone has the 100% right to complain about it, but when that complaint errs towards an entitled demand to something different, I think that comes off as a tad elitist. For everyone who wants a realistic Zelda, there are just as many like me who don't. No one's the objectively "right" in this and though debating those values is fine, listing them as objective flaws is not.

And this has to be said. It's not directed at you, but Wind Waker is not remeniscent of a Disney cartoon and Skyward Sword is not impressionistic. I think both games are beautiful, but a lot of people, especially Aonuma, toss about inaccurate words to describe them. Disney has a very destinct art style and if Wind Waker was striving for that, it failed miserably. Wind Waker has much more stylistically in common with a game like Okami than Disney.

And last, I don't agree at all. OoT was absolutely not realistic for it's day; not when games like Perfect Dark and Turok where around. It was a very cartoony game. I think people confuse a more earthy color pallet with realistic art direction, because none of those games you mentioned are even remotely realistic. ALttP came out in a era with Contra SNES, and Zelda II just had a taller Link. It wasn't made to resemble realism at all. Especially when you consider Miyamoto's dislike for the "realistic" direction that Twilight Princess took, I doubt he was even attempting realism in those titles.

-> WW and SS were both to some extent a cop out.  SS in particular was... they chose the style because they couldn't make graphics that would impressive late in the Wii lifecycle when compared to HD systems.  So they went with the watercolor/surealism and artistic flair.

I think a lot of western fans like to believe that's true, but it isn't. Skyward Swords art direction happened because Aonuma doesn't like the realistic approach to Zelda done in Twilight Princess, but didn't want to alienate NA fans, so he came up with this style as a compromise. It had nothing to do with hardware constraints. People who liked TP where fine with the way it looked and games like The Last Story prove that the Wii can handle a more realistic approach to art design. He just didn't want to.

Same with Wind Waker.  It's artstyle came from Aonuma becoming frustrated when designing the first GCN Zelda because the way the game was going felt like it was just a retread of Ocarina, which he thought was uninteresting. (he thought retreading was uninteresting, not OoT, obviously) Then one of his art designers showed him a concept that he drew for a Moblin, the ones that eventually ended up in WW, and Aonuma got excited. He asked the designer to try drawing link fighting the moblin in that same style, and that's how toon Link was born. It had nothing to do with hardware constraints. He just like the way it looked.

-> A lot of space isn't a flaw.  THe goal of Zelda has always been bringing the outdoors in.  I go hiking a lot seeking waterfalls.  On any good adventure journey there is a drive along the coast, a long walk through the woods, bridges, woodland creatures and then finally the waterfall.  Without that lead up, there would be no sense of escape, no appreciation for the vastnesss of nature.  In a dense world filled with nothing but relavent objects, you miss the sense of wonder and exploration.  Non-important things make the important things important.

I agree, but you don't need vast and empty expanses to accomplish that. From a game design perspecting, it's a waste of space. When ALttP was released, no other game world had ever been that big before, and the world felt huge to them. When the original LoZ came out, no game had ever been that big, and the world felt huge to them. There was absolutely no dead space in any of those games. ALttP was extremely dense, and yet no one missed out on the feeling of wonder and exploration with that game.

The same should be true for the Wii U Zelda title. There are plenty of areas in ALttP that have nothing but trees and a few enemies. The thing is that in those areas, they aren't needlessly large. In SS's Faron Woods, there is a lot of space that is just walking around and killing baddies. The whole of Faron Woods is unthinkably huge, and yet none of that space is wasted with emptyness.

What I'm saying is that instead of vast empty expanses with absolutely nothing going on like with Hyrule Field, the great sea, or the sky, the whole game should instead be connected with those Faron Woods route-like areas where you just explore and fight baddies. Add things to descover like optional dungeons, key houses, and other things, and there would be no need for a vast empty space to make the world artificially feel larger.

-> Z-targeting revolutionized 3D combat... in 1998.  SInce then there have been many advancements, including a second analogue stick.  Zelda could learn some things (not all things) from the BatmanAA series.

Wow lol I disagree completely lol but that's entirely subjective. I feel that the Arkham series combat doesn't hold a candle to the Zelda series lol no contest at all.

 -> Not a new concept.  It's from the original Zelda.  I want it back.

Well that much is already done in ALBW, minus the aesthetic bells and whistles.

-> I want more.  AoL was headed in the right direction with a large world, but the series went smaller ever since.  I want something more vast.

I definitely wouldn't really like more than that. I feel like the scale of the world is large enough in concept, and anything else would be making the game larger just to be larger.

 





Yeah. Things I DON'T want to see in Zelda U?

1. A bunch of motion controls. In fact I do hope if there ARE any, they are 100% optional. Skyward Sword had many elements that made it a REALLY good game, and I mean that. But the worst offense the game committed, to me, was the RETARDED overuse of motion+ bullshit. Using it for the swordplay I was down with. But having to fucking TILT to navigate menus, and TILT to aim? As if it would have been that hard to just use the fucking IR pointer, the Wiimote's BEST feature by far, to do those two things, which would have made it FAR more responsive? The TILT controls for swimming were god-awful as well, and while not AS bad, weren't great for flying either. And they made that mine-cart minigame a fucking nightmare. That just added a ton more frustration to a game that I otherwise (aside from the repetition of the bosses) enjoyed.

Meaning, I DO NOT want to see that shit again.


2. On a connected note, I also have no wish for "using the gamepad to it's fullest" to mean using a bunch of fucking touch screen controls, ala the DS Zeldas, either. No thanks, again. I want to play my Zelda with analog sticks and BUTTONS. Period. I'm totally down to use the touch screen for a map, for the items menu and other menus, etc. That sounds GREAT. Maybe even a BIT of touch-screen puzzle solving. But I don't want that shit to dominate the gameplay either. At all.

3. I know I've already said it, but I do not want a toon link style again. It doesn't HAVE to be "realistic", but I'd like something that leans towards realistic, instead of cartoony. I LOVE cartoony games, don't get me wrong. But that's not what I currently want out of the first HD Zelda we've ever had (WW remake doesn't count). For the first REAL HD Zelda we get, I want it to at least look SURREALISTIC, with a realistic bent to at least the textures and particle effects, water, lighting, etc. I am in no way a graphics whore type of gamer, I still prefer sprites to polygons for shit's sake. But if I'm GOING to get a 3D, HD Zelda, then I want it to be glorious. And I know that the Wii U hardware could give us a drop-dead gorgeous, quasi-real looking Zelda game. That is what I want.

4. No stupid gimmicks. This basically ties into the gameplay again, and to #1 and 2, but while I'm perfectly willing to accept some new elements into my Zelda, "if it ain't broke, don't fuckin' fix it". I don't want some "clever idea" for a gameplay mechanic to water down or even detract from what SHOULD be an epic, mind-blowing Zelda game. I'm not trying to get my hopes too high here, but at the same time, I just DON'T want to see some stupid shit thrown into this new game just to make it "different".

5. NO, as in ZERO, voice acting. I most especially don't want/need to ever hear Link talk. It was funny in the old Mario Super Show cartoon, but I don't need Link to have a voice. Look at the wonders that did for Jak in Jak 2 & 3, after all. *note sarcasm* I'm not SUPER against NPC's talking, but then again.....I kinda am. Why? Because while I really enjoyed Skyrim, for the most part? The NPC's got downright fucking obnoxious with their voice acting. Meaning, every time you'd even get near them, you'd have to hear the same dumb fuckin' lines over and over. It's bad enough having to see that in text. Having to hear it too? In a Zelda game? No thank you. x10



spemanig said:

Wow lol I disagree completely lol but that's entirely subjective. I feel that the Arkham series combat doesn't hold a candle to the Zelda series lol no contest at all.

 

WAAAT!? Arkham has the best combat system ever created! :O

And with all that said it would most likey be a poor match for a Zelda game since it's only effective on humanoid opponents which as you may notice is lacking in Zelda games.



DevilRising said:

Yeah. Things I DON'T want to see in Zelda U?

1. A bunch of motion controls. In fact I do hope if there ARE any, they are 100% optional. Skyward Sword had many elements that made it a REALLY good game, and I mean that. But the worst offense the game committed, to me, was the RETARDED overuse of motion+ bullshit. Using it for the swordplay I was down with. But having to fucking TILT to navigate menus, and TILT to aim? As if it would have been that hard to just use the fucking IR pointer, the Wiimote's BEST feature by far, to do those two things, which would have made it FAR more responsive? The TILT controls for swimming were god-awful as well, and while not AS bad, weren't great for flying either. And they made that mine-cart minigame a fucking nightmare. That just added a ton more frustration to a game that I otherwise (aside from the repetition of the bosses) enjoyed.

Meaning, I DO NOT want to see that shit again.

I agree completely. A lot of SS's flaws would be much more often forgiven if it weren't for the motion controls. I personally hated the sheild motion.

2. On a connected note, I also have no wish for "using the gamepad to it's fullest" to mean using a bunch of fucking touch screen controls, ala the DS Zeldas, either. No thanks, again. I want to play my Zelda with analog sticks and BUTTONS. Period. I'm totally down to use the touch screen for a map, for the items menu and other menus, etc. That sounds GREAT. Maybe even a BIT of touch-screen puzzle solving. But I don't want that shit to dominate the gameplay either. At all.

Again, I agree with every letter.

3. I know I've already said it, but I do not want a toon link style again. It doesn't HAVE to be "realistic", but I'd like something that leans towards realistic, instead of cartoony. I LOVE cartoony games, don't get me wrong. But that's not what I currently want out of the first HD Zelda we've ever had (WW remake doesn't count). For the first REAL HD Zelda we get, I want it to at least look SURREALISTIC, with a realistic bent to at least the textures and particle effects, water, lighting, etc. I am in no way a graphics whore type of gamer, I still prefer sprites to polygons for shit's sake. But if I'm GOING to get a 3D, HD Zelda, then I want it to be glorious. And I know that the Wii U hardware could give us a drop-dead gorgeous, quasi-real looking Zelda game. That is what I want.

I genuinely don't think that you need to worry about any artstyle returning, including toon Link. I keep saying this, but I personally want the HD Zelda to look like a mix between Journey and the ALBW promotional art.

4. No stupid gimmicks. This basically ties into the gameplay again, and to #1 and 2, but while I'm perfectly willing to accept some new elements into my Zelda, "if it ain't broke, don't fuckin' fix it". I don't want some "clever idea" for a gameplay mechanic to water down or even detract from what SHOULD be an epic, mind-blowing Zelda game. I'm not trying to get my hopes too high here, but at the same time, I just DON'T want to see some stupid shit thrown into this new game just to make it "different".

ALBW's gimmick was perfect. Don't tether creativity to a periferal like the gamepad. Just use the gamepad to enhance what is already there.

5. NO, as in ZERO, voice acting. I most especially don't want/need to ever hear Link talk. It was funny in the old Mario Super Show cartoon, but I don't need Link to have a voice. Look at the wonders that did for Jak in Jak 2 & 3, after all. *note sarcasm* I'm not SUPER against NPC's talking, but then again.....I kinda am. Why? Because while I really enjoyed Skyrim, for the most part? The NPC's got downright fucking obnoxious with their voice acting. Meaning, every time you'd even get near them, you'd have to hear the same dumb fuckin' lines over and over. It's bad enough having to see that in text. Having to hear it too? In a Zelda game? No thank you. x10

I think Skyrim just did voice acting wrong. In Zelda, it would be like how it already is, where you have to press A to hear what an NPC has to say. Problem solved. I agree on Link not speaking. Link is silent. That's part of his character. NPC's however are not, and they absolutely should be voiced. I do feel like there should be an option to turn the voice acting off as well as the text in "cutscenes." The fanbase is far to split on this to do just one or the other. I hate reading text in video games, but a lot of people love it in Zelda.





Mystro-Sama said:
spemanig said:

Wow lol I disagree completely lol but that's entirely subjective. I feel that the Arkham series combat doesn't hold a candle to the Zelda series lol no contest at all.

 

WAAAT!? Arkham has the best combat system ever created! :O

And with all that said it would most likey be a poor match for a Zelda game since it's only effective on humanoid opponents which as you may notice is lacking in Zelda games.


I think it's combat is fine, but if it was like Zelda's, I'd probably like the Arkham games a lot more lol.