spemanig said:
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Majora's Mask and TP aren't that different in terms of artstyle, but I wasn't talking about artstyle anyway. I was talking graphical quality.
spemanig said:
|
Majora's Mask and TP aren't that different in terms of artstyle, but I wasn't talking about artstyle anyway. I was talking graphical quality.
I am just not interested in anything that isn't at least 720p. I have played a 3DS myself multiple times and it just blurs my eyes. I am generally ok if I can upscale a game to 1080p. If it wasn't for the touch screen I would use a 3DS emulator


sc94597 said:
Majora's Mask and TP aren't that different in terms of artstyle, but I wasn't talking about artstyle anyway. I was talking graphical quality. |
They are completely different when it comes to art style, and yes, you were talking about artstyle, because a higher polycount/higher res OoT3D by itself would look nothing like TP. It would look like OoT3D with smoother shapes and clearer textures.
spemanig said:
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No they're not. Majora's Mask used many of the same textures as OoT and Twilight Princess was suppose to artistically be similar to OoT, but with a darker tone due to the Twilight portion of the game. Both are realistic styles with very little cell-shading.




sc94597 said:
No they're not. Majora's Mask used many of the same textures as OoT and Twilight Princess was suppose to artistically be similar to OoT, but with a darker tone due to the Twilight portion of the game. Both are realistic styles with very little cell-shading. |
Yes. They are. Twilight Princess is not stylistically similar to OoT. It doesn't matter what it's "supposed to be," because it isn't. Other M was "supposed to be" a good game, but it isn't.
I can do pictures too.
This:

...is not stylistically similar to this:

...or this:

...and especially not this:

...But to use an ingame comparison that's not just environment, because both games are generic in that regard and even still don't look stylistically similar, this:

is not the same art style as these:


...and this:

...is not the same artstyle as this:

This:

...is not dark and realistic. This:

...is dark and realistic.
Twilight Princess may have been "dark" but OoT is definitely not realistic. That's not opinion, that's fact. None are "realistic," but especially not OoT. OoT is the definition of cartoony. That's not a limitation of the hardware, as proven by the graphical fidelity in REvelations, that's a stylistic choice. A stylistic choice that runs in complete contrast with Twilight Princess and complete symetry with Majora's Mask. MM keeps the exact same art style as OoT; it's tone is what shifts. Twilight Princess shares it's tone, for the most part, with OoT. It's artstyle is completely different.
spemanig said:
I can do pictures too. This:
...is not stylistically similar to this:
...or this:
...and especially not this:
...But to use an ingame comparison that's not just environment, because both games are generic in that regard and even still don't look stylistically similar, this:
is not the same art style as these:
...and this:
...is not the same artstyle as this:
This:
...is not dark and realistic. This:
...is dark and realistic. Twilight Princess may have been "dark" but OoT is definitely not realistic. That's not opinion, that's fact. None are "realistic," but especially not OoT. OoT is the definition of cartoony. That's not a limitation of the hardware, as proven by the graphical fidelity in REvelations, that's a stylistic choice. A stylistic choice that runs in complete contrast with Twilight Princess and complete symetry with Majora's Mask. MM keeps the exact same art style as OoT; it's tone is what shifts. Twilight Princess shares it's tone, for the most part, with OoT. It's artstyle is completely different. |
Both Twilight Princess, OoT/Majora's Mask did not have naturalistic art-styles when it came to characters, but with environments both had highly naturalistic styles. You use concept art, to represent what Nintendo's vision for the games were, but you must also consider that concept art has the graphical limitations of a system in mind. OoT, by default for being on a less powerful system, will have far less detailed concept art. That doesn't mean its style wasn't as naturalistic, nor that TP wasn't as stylized as OoT. Just that it was more limited in achieving the ideal balanced style. But if you want more "cartoonish" twilight princess concept art:



and character models



vs.


I think this article describes it best.
http://www.zeldadungeon.net/2012/11/ocarina-of-time-is-considered-realistic/
Anyway, I do not intend to this post to bash any particular artstyle or anyone’s opinions or assumptions. I simply want to put out this argument (which I believe to be irrefutable, if I’m being honest), and emphasize these aspects which I think easily indicate the true intentions of Ocarina of Time’s artstyle. Ocarina of Time did the same thing that Twilight Princess, Skyward Sword, and indeed every previous Zelda game did: Take a certain degree of realism and detail, and inject stylization and imagination into it. An anime style. Obviously they all did it in different ways (which one did it the best being, of course, a matter of opinion), but they still have the same underlying principle. The Wind Waker’s style, carried through Four Swords, The Minish Cap, and the DS titles, was the only serious deviation, though that doesn’t make it bad.
I would not call them completely different as you do.
sc94597 said:
Both Twilight Princess, OoT/Majora's Mask did not have naturalistic art-styles when it came to characters, but with environments both had highly naturalistic styles. You use concept art, to represent what Nintendo's vision for the games were, but you must also consider that concept art has the graphical limitations of a system in mind. OoT, by default for being on a less powerful system, will have far less detailed concept art. That doesn't mean its style wasn't as naturalistic, nor that TP wasn't as stylized as OoT. Just that it was more limited in achieving the ideal balanced style. But if you want more "cartoonish" twilight princess concept art: and character models vs. I think this article describes it best. http://www.zeldadungeon.net/2012/11/ocarina-of-time-is-considered-realistic/ Anyway, I do not intend to this post to bash any particular artstyle or anyone’s opinions or assumptions. I simply want to put out this argument (which I believe to be irrefutable, if I’m being honest), and emphasize these aspects which I think easily indicate the true intentions of Ocarina of Time’s artstyle. Ocarina of Time did the same thing that Twilight Princess, Skyward Sword, and indeed every previous Zelda game did: Take a certain degree of realism and detail, and inject stylization and imagination into it. An anime style. Obviously they all did it in different ways (which one did it the best being, of course, a matter of opinion), but they still have the same underlying principle. The Wind Waker’s style, carried through Four Swords, The Minish Cap, and the DS titles, was the only serious deviation, though that doesn’t make it bad.
I would not call them completely different as you do. |
...I don't know what I just read.
"concept art has the graphical limitations of a system in mind."
No. It doesn't. First, that isn't "concept art." It's real game art. It's art that expresses what the developer wants the player to see.

This is game art from DK64. If Nintendo cared about scaling back game art to better represent the ingame graphics, this wouldn't exist.
This:
...is still not even close in art direction, and not nearly as "cartoonish" as this:

Who care's if they art both "naturalistic?" Naturalism isn't an art style. It's a principle encompasing many completely different artstyles. Just because both games display grass in a kind of similar way doesn't mean that they share an artstyle or are even artistically similar, or else the Pokemon Colleseum would be considered the same "art style" to OoT and TP. Even colleseum has more stylistically in common with OoT than TP does. If Nintendo wanted OoT to look like TP, then OoT would have looked like TP, but it doesn't, because they didn't. Sheik in Brawl wouldn't look so completely different from sheik in Melee if they shared an artstyle. In fact, Link in Melee wouldn't look so completely different from Link in brawl if they were supposed to share a similar artstyle. They are night and day. The only thing they have in common are Link, Zelda, and Ganondorf.
I'm not even going to requote the ingame comparison you just did, because any human being with eyes can see how completely different those are from each other, and that's on hardware of similar power.
"An anime style. Obviously they all did it in different ways."
Different ways.
AN ANIME STYLE DONE IN DIFFERENT WAYS.
DIFFERENT ART STYLES!!!!!!!
You literally quoted an article that agrees with me. Anime style =/= realistic and anime style =/= same or similar art style. And he lists OoT, Skyward Sword, Twilight Princess, and every other Zelda game that isn't Wind Waker derivitive. Now, unless you are going to try and argue that OoT also shares it's art style with ALttP, the Oracle games, Link's Awakening, ALBW, Zelda 2, and the original Legend of Zelda, this back and forth is over. You've literally proven yourself wrong with links, quotes, and side by side images that you yourself compared.
Do it! And have the Hero of Time HD Trilogy for the Nintendo Fusion. All three games in HD and 3D (assuming they keep the 3D function for the Fusion), for $60. Insane value. But as to your description of the game, I think you have the right idea of what it should be. The most iconic version of Link should get a third installment, and it should have its own unique tone from the other two games. Definitely still have Epona and the Ocarina, but not the masks. The masks were too thematic in MM and would feel very out of place with the new tone. I'm not sure what they could take from MM, though perhaps the Fierce Diety Mask. Having the FD Mask involved in the conflict somehow sounds promising, but not as the villain, I don't think. I do think the game could could tie up loose ends, but not Majora or the Happy Mask Salesman. I want him to find Navi, that was the whole point of him setting out on his journey in MM before he fell into Termina, and it was the quest he set out on at the end of MM. It'd also be nice if the game tied up his relation to the Link of Twilight Princess. Considering TP Link lives on a ranch, perhaps Malon is involved somehow? I don't think the game needs to tie up loose ends of previous games in the trilogy, aside from Link's personal quest to find Navi, but I'd like to see it tie different parts of the child timeline together.
| HylianSwordsman said: Do it! And have the Hero of Time HD Trilogy for the Nintendo Fusion. All three games in HD and 3D (assuming they keep the 3D function for the Fusion), for $60. Insane value. But as to your description of the game, I think you have the right idea of what it should be. The most iconic version of Link should get a third installment, and it should have its own unique tone from the other two games. Definitely still have Epona and the Ocarina, but not the masks. The masks were too thematic in MM and would feel very out of place with the new tone. I'm not sure what they could take from MM, though perhaps the Fierce Diety Mask. Having the FD Mask involved in the conflict somehow sounds promising, but not as the villain, I don't think. I do think the game could could tie up loose ends, but not Majora or the Happy Mask Salesman. I want him to find Navi, that was the whole point of him setting out on his journey in MM before he fell into Termina, and it was the quest he set out on at the end of MM. It'd also be nice if the game tied up his relation to the Link of Twilight Princess. Considering TP Link lives on a ranch, perhaps Malon is involved somehow? I don't think the game needs to tie up loose ends of previous games in the trilogy, aside from Link's personal quest to find Navi, but I'd like to see it tie different parts of the child timeline together. |
I agree with everything! I know that this would probably be controversial, but I think that the hero of time should die in the last game. Like, in a martyrial way. And in a very lonely way. Perhaps as he passes he finally finds navi reunites with navi and as his life fades away, the last thing he hears is Navi panicing to wake him up, shouting "hey, listen! Please..."
It would be a nice nod to the fans and it would be bitter sweet. The greatest video game journey is finally at an end and you start to miss the things you thought you hated. I don't think that the game should be about him looking for her, though. They should do it like in MM; the game starts with link in the lost woods as a child, then it fades and we see him still wandering as an adult/older teen. Some plot device happens and he finds his way out. Actually, what if he finds Navi in the beginning and she leads him out, only for (plot device) to happen to her, and he must save her from (plot device). Then the story would effectively start out like WW. A personal journey to rescue someone dear to you, but then the story opens up and the real threat reveals itself, whatever it may be.
I think that Malon should definitely be involved, but I don't think that Link should be romantic with anyone. They'll all obviously love him, that's part of the humor and charm, but the hero of time should remain a loner. Maybe Malon just starts the village and there are some hints to that. But all in all, I don't think it should try to tie anthing together. That's how sequels and prequels are ruined; they're confined. MM was so great because it wasn't. OoT didn't matter to MM. The same should be true for this one.
Resident Evil: Revelations only used 90% of the 3DS power by 2011 standards.