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Forums - Sony Discussion - SONY results: 3.7m PS3+PS4, 0.7m PSV+PSP. $1.246bn loss FY. GAME $80m loss for year. Expects another $0.5bn loss to March 2015

Seece said:
cookingyourmama said:
Seece said:
cookingyourmama said:

Wow what a weak reply, you don't prove me wrong at all it's just more fud. What i've posted are stone cold facts, feel free to try and prove me wrong with actual facts instead of more biased opinions & wishful thinking that you try to pass off as facts. And no i NEVER said the mods are biased, that's a really sad attempt to try and get me into trouble.

You realise of the last 4 Q's PS3 and 360 have shipped the same/on par

Q2 - 1m vs 1.1m
Q4 - 3.5m each
Q1 - 800k each.

It was only Q3 where PS3 shipped 800k more (which still doesn't seem to put them ahead becaused after that Sony announced 80m shipped weeks after Microsoft did. Since that announcement they've been shipping at the same rates ... and no word on Sony from PS3 overtaking 360 (which they would announce, don't kid yourself.)

Yeah the problem is you don't actually know what the PS3 numbers are and those are just your guesses. Not only that but who's to say one company has shipped more but sold less than the other. There's also been another 7 weeks worth of sales since the last quarter ended, again who's to say that hasn't changed who's ahead either way. Again i point you to the fact that for countless years now whatever amount the 360 has outsold the PS3 in the USA, the PS3 makes up that difference in Japan and that's still true to this day. So that leaves Europe+the rest of the world where overall the Playstation has always dominated the 360, yet we're supposed to believe with zero evidence that now magically the 360 is outselling the PS3 in it's best region when it can barely manage to out sell it in the USA which is it's worst region. And to be perfectly honest i don't think Sony will announce when they've overtaken Microsoft because it's only the battle for second place, they'll announce when they hit 90 or 100 million tho.

No but, we DO know those numbers, they're not guesses. Q1 last year there were no combined PS2 figures, the 1.1m was entirely PS3. Q4 we know because PS4 did 4.2m, leaving 3.5m for PS3. And last Q they shipped 3.6m? combined. Given PS4 hit 7m during that Q, a minimum is 2.8 for PS4, leaving 800k (or less) for PS3. This isn't guessing.

Again no that's not accurate.

In the April - June 2013 Quarter, the PS3 sold 1.1m to the 360's 1.0m, so the PS3 sold more.

In the July - September 2013 Quarter, the PS3 sold 2.0m to the 360's 1.2m, so again the PS3 sold more.

Then over the next two quarters the 360 sold 3.5m and 0.8m for a combined total of 4.3m.

During that same time the PS4 was released and Sony started releasing combined PS3 and PS4 numbers and from October 2013 till March 2014 they sold a combined total of 11.5m.

As of the 6th of April 2013 Sony announced they had sold 7m PS4's and since the above numbers were from a week before the 6th of April that means PS4 had to have sold less then 7m by that point. The PS4 has been selling roughly a million a month so that means if you take away a weeks worth of sales that means at the end of March the PS4 was roughly at 6.75-6.80 million. Take that number away from the PS3+PS4 combined total number of 11.5m and that leaves a potential total of 4.70-4.75 million PS3 sales.

The PS4 has been supply constrained so the number of PS4's in the retail chain will be very low but nobody knows the exact amount. So when the 360 sold 4.3m and the PS3 could have potentially sold 4.75m during the same time you can't say that the 360 sold the same amount. It's still too close to call who's ahead at the end of March or now in the middle of May.



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A) They won't have shipped much from 1st - 6th april, they're not shipping 1m a month, sales are telling us that (Less than 250k across US and Japan alone for the entire April sell through.

B) They said OVER 7m, you or I don't know by how much. It could very well mean 360 shipped more the last 6 months.



 

Seece said:
A) They won't have shipped much from 1st - 6th april, they're not shipping 1m a month, sales are telling us that (Less than 250k across US and Japan alone for the entire April sell through.

B) They said OVER 7m, you or I don't know by how much. It could very well mean 360 shipped more the last 6 months.

Sony announced they had sold 4.2m PS4's as of the 28th of December 2013. That means from the 29th of December till the 6th of April they sold 2.8m to reach their total of 7.0m. That's 2.8m over 3 and a quarter months which is 862,000 per month and 200,000 per week. So yeah selling 200,000 in a week is normal, which means the PS4 was roughly at 6.8 million as of the end of March.

And yes Sony said over 7.0m and i've had debates like these in the past with people when a company has said they've 'sold over' a certain amount, but it's always the same result. If a company has reached a milestone of selling a certain amount why annouce it as being a date several days later than when it actually happened? That would make no sense, not to mention they are not allowed to lie about sales figures because they are bound by law to their shareholders. Sony said they had sold over 7m as of the 6th of April because it didn't happen a day sooner. So as of the exact date of the 6th of April that's when they crossed 7m and it makes no sense that on that one day they magically sold several 100,000's of PS4's when it takes them an entire week to sell 200,000. As of that date they were slightly over 7m not over 7.1 or 7.2 million.

But again this all comes back to my original point, it's still too close to call who is ahead at the moment and trying to state the 360 is all most certainly ahead right now when all the numbers we have show the PS3 is still selling more per month is asinine.



kowenicki said:
DerNebel said:
kowenicki said:
Max King of the Wild said:
Its 2 weeks in at 553m it will probably get close to 800m (because you could probbly consider it close already)


so it will just about break even then.  great.

You should at least be fair and consider this part from the article you posted:

"By my estimates, sharply higher production costs have kept a lid on box office profits for recent Spider-Man movies. But that's also not as big a deal as it might seem. Hollywood makes most of its moola after films leave theaters. High-margin Blu-ray, DVD, and on-demand sales and rentals, as well as merchandising and TV and streaming distribution, usually account for most of the take-home. And in that respect, Spider-Man movies have been a huge winner for Sony over the years."

Thats my point.  It is later licensing and product merchandising that make the money.

I was merely respoinding to the "lol... its made $500m" comment, which was way off the mark and misleading.


 Now im not saying they make a ton. And its nearly impossible to say how much its made. But using this as a general guide id say the movie is approaching profitability.

Domestic amount earned- 86,085,000  (total amount grossed 172,170,000)

Foreign amount earned- 184,400,000   (total amount grossed 461,000,000)

-------------------------------------------------

Rumored production cost - 200,000,000

Potential advertising costs 100,000,000

General rule of thumb is movie has to make twice its production cost to be likely profitable. And it still has a lot of other money it will make in dvd, bluray, tv deals, merchandise. The movie isnt even done in theaters if it makes it near 800 million we could be possibly looking at a few hundred million in profit. Not out of the realm of possibility. 

 

 



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Justagamer said:
Lawlight said:
Kasz216 said:
kowenicki said:
kumagawa said:
If Sony's in such bad shape why has there cash position got better?

Cash and cash equivalents
December 31st 2013 - $8,088 billion
March 31st 2014 $10,160 billion

That's enough cash for 15 quarters of losses equal to this one.


Ahh, whats known here as the Nintendo defense.  Thats not how it works I'm afraid.


Eh, the big difference is that Nintendo has no real debt.

Nintendo also has nowhere to go from here unless they drastically start to invest in other industries.


Sony has nowhere to go from here, unless they drastically  stop investing and exit from other industries they are in, but then that leaves them in nintendos place, nowhere left to go....


The difference is that Sony has a lot of profitable divisions - including a home console division.



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This article about The Amazing Spider-Man's 2 cost says that it needs $750M for Sony to get a ~20% return:

http://www.deadline.com/2014/04/amazing-spider-man-2-box-office-international-launch/

So, they broke even at $625M.



Sony is in a weird space. It's hard to stay focus when under lots of pressure. Sell the entertainment business but keep the Playstation division. They have to stop the bleeding.



Lawlight said:
Justagamer said:
Lawlight said:
Kasz216 said:
kowenicki said:
kumagawa said:
If Sony's in such bad shape why has there cash position got better?

Cash and cash equivalents
December 31st 2013 - $8,088 billion
March 31st 2014 $10,160 billion

That's enough cash for 15 quarters of losses equal to this one.


Ahh, whats known here as the Nintendo defense.  Thats not how it works I'm afraid.


Eh, the big difference is that Nintendo has no real debt.

Nintendo also has nowhere to go from here unless they drastically start to invest in other industries.


Sony has nowhere to go from here, unless they drastically  stop investing and exit from other industries they are in, but then that leaves them in nintendos place, nowhere left to go....


The difference is that Sony has a lot of profitable divisions - including a home console division.


Bold: they post a loss in that division too.



POE said:
Lawlight said:
Justagamer said:

Sony has nowhere to go from here, unless they drastically  stop investing and exit from other industries they are in, but then that leaves them in nintendos place, nowhere left to go....


The difference is that Sony has a lot of profitable divisions - including a home console division.


Bold: they post a loss in that division too.

$18M for the full year with the PS4 being out for less than 2 quarters and that includes the losses due to their handheld as well.



Lawlight said:

Nintendo also has nowhere to go from here unless they drastically start to invest in other industries.

"Nintendo has nowhere to go until they decide to go somewhere else".

DYNAMITE analysis.



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