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Forums - Microsoft - Xbox One will Double Performance with DirectX12

UTKresh said:

GDDR5 is not a cache. eSRAM is. to simplify it for you: its like an accelerator for the slow DDR3 ram.

its a complete different solution to GDDR5.

hardware architecture design is something we can not judge that easily.

X1 may be ~40% slower out of the box, but that´s due to its different architecture mostly. due to its eSRAM-DDR3 architecture, the X1 needs cache optimization to perform well unlike the PS4. the first set of X1 multiplat games definitely showed this. wait for the second row of games. the gap will decrease.

Both eSRAM and GDDR5 are used in the same way... there is no difference in use of eSRAM because it is not a cache... I think you are confunsing with the eDRAM found in 360.

You don't have a caching of data in eSRAM but instead you you it to write information that you need more fast than what DDR3 give you... to be fair all devs will try to use it to store the framebuffer if the game will try to reach 60fps... use the DDR3 to store a framebuffer for 60fps won't work for this gen... PS4 store the framebuffer on GDDR5.



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UTKresh said:

GDDR5 is not a cache. eSRAM is. to simplify it for you: its like an accelerator for the slow DDR3 ram.

No it isn't. To simplify it for you: The 4*8Mbyte esram is NOT an accelerator for anything, it is NOT a cache. The reality is a lot more complex (there is a reason why you see a third block of esram on the SoC dye and why the cpu cannot directly poke the esram blocks).



what do you think are the move engines in combination with eSRAM and DDR3 good for then? of course eSRAM is going to be used like a GPU cache. its not SRAM for nothing. i mean, we can of course discuss now if it has to be called a cache or like the name says, embeded static ram. if i call it a programmable gpu cache, i am not too far off.

-> http://www.extremetech.com/gaming/171735-xbox-one-apu-reverse-engineered-reveals-sram-as-the-reason-for-small-gpu they call it cache
http://hothardware.com/News/Developers-Claim-Xbox-One-Much-Weaker-Than-PS4-We-Evaluate-The-Evidence/ they too btw.
-> http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-the-complete-xbox-one-interview this article states that its very similar to eDRAM

 

Edit:
-> http://semiaccurate.com/2013/05/22/microsoft-subtly-admits-losing-with-xbox-one/ even though this article is a little outdated (may 22, 2013), it has a great understanding of x1s architecture (eSRAM again called a cache)



Uabit said:
This remembers me a little what happened with the "hidden power" of the cell processor. The difference is that Microsoft is not like Sony and they normally say the truth.


Exactly just like when they said they couldn't get rid of the DRM cause it was in the hardware.



selnor1983 said:
superchunk said:
"Double" performance... wtf ever.

Gotta love PR people.

Take away: There will be a noticeable performance improvement on most games when DX12 releases on XBoxOne.

Theres no reason this guy would PR for MS. Hes obviously noticed a big difference firsthand. I d think x2 is exagerated, but PDZ - Halo 4 diference I can believe.

But there is also no way this is possible. Sorry its just not going to happen "Double performance". 

I'm hoping this secret sauce crap finally goes away, so people can just focus on the games as thats what it should be about. This whole performance fallacy and people falling for it, is sadly depressing.



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Madword said:
selnor1983 said:
superchunk said:
"Double" performance... wtf ever.

Gotta love PR people.

Take away: There will be a noticeable performance improvement on most games when DX12 releases on XBoxOne.

Theres no reason this guy would PR for MS. Hes obviously noticed a big difference firsthand. I d think x2 is exagerated, but PDZ - Halo 4 diference I can believe.

But there is also no way this is possible. Sorry its just not going to happen "Double performance". 

I'm hoping this secret sauce crap finally goes away, so people can just focus on the games as thats what it should be about. This whole performance fallacy and people falling for it, is sadly depressing.

I also dont agree its x2. Thats exagrated. But along with Phils comment its like PDZ - Halo 4 there is a significant performance gin using DX12. 

This isnt some secret sauce, like some chip not switched on inside the xbo one. This is a PROVEN enhancement to the direct access and control over the core of the hardware. When all is sai and done this is good news for XB1 in terms of great story visuals and cinematic gameplay. There is a dfinite performance gain using DX12 over 11 for Xbox One. First party tites will be benefit mostly as they only have to build one version of the game. But 3rd parties probably for a couple of years will still choose the easier option of DX11. Some like Ubisoft or EA wit more funds may dabble into DX12 though. But I expect Forza 6, Halo 5 etc to be sporting the better DX12. Maybe even Quantum Break will have beeen shifted over to DX12.



thismeintiel said:
And people keep asking when the talk of power and resolution difference will end. Easy answer. The same time Xbox fans stop seeing this stuff (whatever the source may be) and actually believing it and spreading it around. Sorry, but software is not going to change hardware. In the end, the Xbox will always be ~1.3 Tflops and have slower RAM, while the PS4 will be ~1.85 Tflops and have faster RAM. The only way anyone could actually believe this is if both systems have God awful dev kits and are nowhere near showing their true potential. Oh, and for some reason Sony won't improve theirs, while MS are the gods of software and have improved it 2 fold within a few months.

Did you really see a user posting sony won't improve their game?... i smell bullshit



 "I think people should define the word crap" - Kirby007

Join the Prediction League http://www.vgchartz.com/predictions

Instead of seeking to convince others, we can be open to changing our own minds, and seek out information that contradicts our own steadfast point of view. Maybe it’ll turn out that those who disagree with you actually have a solid grasp of the facts. There’s a slight possibility that, after all, you’re the one who’s wrong.

rolltide101x said:
ethomaz said:

rolltide101x said:

If the software was that bad the XBOne would not have been able to display the graphics it has so far. These threads are just nonsense and should be locked.

I agree...


I believe they could boost performance by 5-10% because lord knows there is room to make DirectX more efficient but these 50%-100% boosts are just nonsense lol.

 

What really gets me is I keep hearing "graphics and resolution do not matter" and then I see articles like this that if true would boost resolution.

so the whole fanbase needs to have exactly the same opinion and views.... great way to generalise a fanbase!



 "I think people should define the word crap" - Kirby007

Join the Prediction League http://www.vgchartz.com/predictions

Instead of seeking to convince others, we can be open to changing our own minds, and seek out information that contradicts our own steadfast point of view. Maybe it’ll turn out that those who disagree with you actually have a solid grasp of the facts. There’s a slight possibility that, after all, you’re the one who’s wrong.

rolltide101x said:
ethomaz said:
rolltide101x said:
All these threads need to be immediately locked. The idea that software can boost fixed hardware by double is impossible. They say the same thing about DirectX on PC but DX9 still has better performance than any of the newer ones....

Unless you fucked the software from beggining...

If the software was that bad the XBOne would not have been able to display the graphics it has so far. These threads are just nonsense and should be locked.

Deep down inside the Xbox fans really only wanted to hear that their side won. Everyone wins if great GAMES are on the console. The Xbox One has a lot more things about itself to work on. Microsoft should be focused on trying to out create Sony rather than trying to beat their specs once the console is already out. Problem with the PS4 this gen is that Sony has them covered on a first party and a hardware front and Microsoft just hates that. All Microsoft needs to focus on is their competitive games and getting other fun new IP's on the console and they'll be fine. People should've figured it out from the start when they saw Micosoft scrambling to fix their clock speed once Sony got better hardware under their belt that Sony had them beat where it counted pre-launch. Its time for Microsoft to fight back post launch with games and nothing but those.



Captain_Tom said:
rolltide101x said:
Captain_Tom said:
rolltide101x said:
All these threads need to be immediately locked. The idea that software can boost fixed hardware by double is impossible. They say the same thing about DirectX on PC but DX9 still has better performance than any of the newer ones....


Hey I am tired of this crap from MS as much as the next guy, but actually DX11 is a lot more efficient than 9.

Define efficient. It looks better with a small performance loss

 

If a game gives you the choice of DX9 or DX11 the DX9 version will run at a higher FPS than the DX11 version (with some graphics loss)

Wrong.  It is common knowledge amongst the PC crowd that cards generally get higher framerate in DX11 mode.  In fact I just did a benchmark myself to confirm it by doing 3 runs of the Metro: 2033 benchmark for both DX9 and DX11:

-The settings were maxed out accept for the DX11 only features.  However DX11 forces you to leave tessalation on.

-DX9: 29 FPS

-DX11: 30 FPS with the added benifits of AAA and Tessalation being on.

 

So yeah bud DX11 gave extra FPS even with the extra DX11 effects on.

Eh, no. It is common knowledge that DX9 gives a higher FPS than DX11...... Your one benchmark for ONE game does not make a fact. I am not arguing that DX9 is better than DX11, DX11 is better overall but DX9 is still the better in terms of performance.