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Forums - Microsoft - Xbox One will Double Performance with DirectX12

selnor1983 on 07 April 2014
rolltide101x said:
Captain_Tom said:
rolltide101x said:
Captain_Tom said:
rolltide101x said:
All these threads need to be immediately locked. The idea that software can boost fixed hardware by double is impossible. They say the same thing about DirectX on PC but DX9 still has better performance than any of the newer ones....


Hey I am tired of this crap from MS as much as the next guy, but actually DX11 is a lot more efficient than 9.

Define efficient. It looks better with a small performance loss

 

If a game gives you the choice of DX9 or DX11 the DX9 version will run at a higher FPS than the DX11 version (with some graphics loss)

Wrong.  It is common knowledge amongst the PC crowd that cards generally get higher framerate in DX11 mode.  In fact I just did a benchmark myself to confirm it by doing 3 runs of the Metro: 2033 benchmark for both DX9 and DX11:

-The settings were maxed out accept for the DX11 only features.  However DX11 forces you to leave tessalation on.

-DX9: 29 FPS

-DX11: 30 FPS with the added benifits of AAA and Tessalation being on.

 

So yeah bud DX11 gave extra FPS even with the extra DX11 effects on.

Eh, no. It is common knowledge that DX9 gives a higher FPS than DX11...... Your one benchmark for ONE game does not make a fact. I am not arguing that DX9 is better than DX11, DX11 is better overall but DX9 is still the better in terms of performance.

Im sorry your talking rubbish.

“We’re primarily leveraging the increased efficiency of DX11 to give improved performance. The move to DX11 from DX9 has given us around a 300% improvement in rendering performance. This has enabled us to provide an improved image based lighting model over the console version, as well as allowing us to run with higher detail shadows and reflections.”

http://www.dsogaming.com/news/need-for-speed-most-wanted-dx11-offers-300-better-performance-than-dx9/

Our dear friends over at PCGamesHardware.de have interviewed 4A Games, and came up with some interesting details about the PC version of Metro: Last Light. According to Oles Shishkovtsov, Chief Technical Officer at 4A Games, Metro: Last Light’s DX11 API offers 15% improvement over its DX9 API (provided you use the same settings).

http://www.dsogaming.com/news/metro-last-light-tech-details-ssaa-support-dx11-faster-than-dx9-tessellation-physx-modes-explained/

If coded for Direct X 11 properly DX11 can destroy DX9.



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DonFerrari on 07 April 2014

Before release people said MS would have the better API and that would balance HW difference, then they say SDK was garbage (justificative for inferior ports) and now a new API and SDK will make it double perform... Why do I find it hard to believe amidst all this flip flop of defensors? Please decide if. MS is a great SW developer and it will enhance API or they are shit and made an horrible API before, you can't have both. You just have to accept MS is at least pretty good SW dev and the first SDK was good, but the new one will be better. So what we can really count on is that both consoles will get better SW (API and games) and the difference will probably stay stable.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

selnor1983 on 07 April 2014
DonFerrari said:
Before release people said MS would have the better API and that would balance HW difference, then they say SDK was garbage (justificative for inferior ports) and now a new API and SDK will make it double perform... Why do I find it hard to believe amidst all this flip flop of defensors? Please decide if. MS is a great SW developer and it will enhance API or they are shit and made an horrible API before, you can't have both. You just have to accept MS is at least pretty good SW dev and the first SDK was good, but the new one will be better. So what we can really count on is that both consoles will get better SW (API and games) and the difference will probably stay stable.


Before release it was rumoured one manufacturer was behind schedule. The developers told us MS SDK was behind. It wast garbage, MS just reacted to Sonys early release of PS4. MS were the ones rumoured to release in 2014. So yes MS were behind on SDK in developments aligned with PS4 SDK. The facts were there fo people who waned to read them. It was just not as fun as saying 50% advantage. When it has never worked that way even ith PC GPU's 50% supposed paper specs dont translate into 50% better results at all. Never has never will. 



DonFerrari on 07 April 2014
selnor1983 said:
DonFerrari said:
Before release people said MS would have the better API and that would balance HW difference, then they say SDK was garbage (justificative for inferior ports) and now a new API and SDK will make it double perform... Why do I find it hard to believe amidst all this flip flop of defensors? Please decide if. MS is a great SW developer and it will enhance API or they are shit and made an horrible API before, you can't have both. You just have to accept MS is at least pretty good SW dev and the first SDK was good, but the new one will be better. So what we can really count on is that both consoles will get better SW (API and games) and the difference will probably stay stable.


Before release it was rumoured one manufacturer was behind schedule. The developers told us MS SDK was behind. It wast garbage, MS just reacted to Sonys early release of PS4. MS were the ones rumoured to release in 2014. So yes MS were behind on SDK in developments aligned with PS4 SDK. The facts were there fo people who waned to read them. It was just not as fun as saying 50% advantage. When it has never worked that way even ith PC GPU's 50% supposed paper specs dont translate into 50% better results at all. Never has never will. 

I do believe MS have rushed a console release for the 2nd time... just don't agree with people that first said 50% would be BS because MS was a good SW dev, and would certainly have a better SDK than Sony (as proved by X360 being easier to dev than PS3), and that ESRAM would be easy as cake because X360 used EDRAM. And them when the first games came (even without any report of the reason) they put the blame on ESRAM being more difficult and SDK being obsolete... and now they believe DX12 will solve everything and/or new SDK... so yes I have reason not to believe this people.

And the worst part is to have to hear that everybody that doubt it is a hater and doesn't want to see X1 get better... It's quite tiring as well being called names and see people play victim...

In the end of course X1 games will get a lot better.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

ethomaz on 07 April 2014

selnor1983 said:

Before release it was rumoured one manufacturer was behind schedule. The developers told us MS SDK was behind. It wast garbage, MS just reacted to Sonys early release of PS4. MS were the ones rumoured to release in 2014. So yes MS were behind on SDK in developments aligned with PS4 SDK. The facts were there fo people who waned to read them. It was just not as fun as saying 50% advantage. When it has never worked that way even ith PC GPU's 50% supposed paper specs dont translate into 50% better results at all. Never has never will.

It is 40% and reviews seems to disagree with you...

http://www.anandtech.com/bench/product/776?vs=857



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selnor1983 on 07 April 2014
DonFerrari said:
selnor1983 said:
DonFerrari said:
Before release people said MS would have the better API and that would balance HW difference, then they say SDK was garbage (justificative for inferior ports) and now a new API and SDK will make it double perform... Why do I find it hard to believe amidst all this flip flop of defensors? Please decide if. MS is a great SW developer and it will enhance API or they are shit and made an horrible API before, you can't have both. You just have to accept MS is at least pretty good SW dev and the first SDK was good, but the new one will be better. So what we can really count on is that both consoles will get better SW (API and games) and the difference will probably stay stable.


Before release it was rumoured one manufacturer was behind schedule. The developers told us MS SDK was behind. It wast garbage, MS just reacted to Sonys early release of PS4. MS were the ones rumoured to release in 2014. So yes MS were behind on SDK in developments aligned with PS4 SDK. The facts were there fo people who waned to read them. It was just not as fun as saying 50% advantage. When it has never worked that way even ith PC GPU's 50% supposed paper specs dont translate into 50% better results at all. Never has never will. 

I do believe MS have rushed a console release for the 2nd time... just don't agree with people that first said 50% would be BS because MS was a good SW dev, and would certainly have a better SDK than Sony (as proved by X360 being easier to dev than PS3), and that ESRAM would be easy as cake because X360 used EDRAM. And them when the first games came (even without any report of the reason) they put the blame on ESRAM being more difficult and SDK being obsolete... and now they believe DX12 will solve everything and/or new SDK... so yes I have reason not to believe this people.

And the worst part is to have to hear that everybody that doubt it is a hater and doesn't want to see X1 get better... It's quite tiring as well being called names and see people play victim...

In the end of course X1 games will get a lot better.


Ho did you come to that conclusion? 

SDK was behind. Part of the recent SDK roll out in February was to take a new problem not existing on EDRAM in that 1080p at 60fps could not traditionally fit onto 32 mb. The developers could program there own tiling tecnique but that added development time, so the easier option for 3rd parties like Ghosts or BF4 was to just drop the res so it fit on 32mb. The fact this only rolled out in Feb from MS so the devs have the tiling done for them shows MS weren ready for Nov release. 

DX12 is different again. It allows the CPU and GPU to do the sam tasks but much more efficiently. So whereas on DX11 Ryse may hit limits in places,DX12 can achieve the same as RYSE but have headroom for more tasks. The ESRAM issue was SDK coming after release. DX12is improving CPU and GPU efficiency not capable on DX11 at all. 360 used the same DX its entire gen. The One is th first console to have an upgaded DX. And in this case a big benefit to resources.



selnor1983 on 07 April 2014
ethomaz said:

selnor1983 said:

Before release it was rumoured one manufacturer was behind schedule. The developers told us MS SDK was behind. It wast garbage, MS just reacted to Sonys early release of PS4. MS were the ones rumoured to release in 2014. So yes MS were behind on SDK in developments aligned with PS4 SDK. The facts were there fo people who waned to read them. It was just not as fun as saying 50% advantage. When it has never worked that way even ith PC GPU's 50% supposed paper specs dont translate into 50% better results at all. Never has never will.

It is 40% and reviews seems to disagree with you...

http://www.anandtech.com/bench/product/776?vs=857


The site I use differes greatly. More like 10-15%

http://gpuboss.com/gpus/Radeon-HD-7870-vs-Radeon-HD-7790



DonFerrari on 07 April 2014
selnor1983 said:
DonFerrari said:
selnor1983 said:
DonFerrari said:
Before release people said MS would have the better API and that would balance HW difference, then they say SDK was garbage (justificative for inferior ports) and now a new API and SDK will make it double perform... Why do I find it hard to believe amidst all this flip flop of defensors? Please decide if. MS is a great SW developer and it will enhance API or they are shit and made an horrible API before, you can't have both. You just have to accept MS is at least pretty good SW dev and the first SDK was good, but the new one will be better. So what we can really count on is that both consoles will get better SW (API and games) and the difference will probably stay stable.


Before release it was rumoured one manufacturer was behind schedule. The developers told us MS SDK was behind. It wast garbage, MS just reacted to Sonys early release of PS4. MS were the ones rumoured to release in 2014. So yes MS were behind on SDK in developments aligned with PS4 SDK. The facts were there fo people who waned to read them. It was just not as fun as saying 50% advantage. When it has never worked that way even ith PC GPU's 50% supposed paper specs dont translate into 50% better results at all. Never has never will. 

I do believe MS have rushed a console release for the 2nd time... just don't agree with people that first said 50% would be BS because MS was a good SW dev, and would certainly have a better SDK than Sony (as proved by X360 being easier to dev than PS3), and that ESRAM would be easy as cake because X360 used EDRAM. And them when the first games came (even without any report of the reason) they put the blame on ESRAM being more difficult and SDK being obsolete... and now they believe DX12 will solve everything and/or new SDK... so yes I have reason not to believe this people.

And the worst part is to have to hear that everybody that doubt it is a hater and doesn't want to see X1 get better... It's quite tiring as well being called names and see people play victim...

In the end of course X1 games will get a lot better.


Ho did you come to that conclusion? 

SDK was behind. Part of the recent SDK roll out in February was to take a new problem not existing on EDRAM in that 1080p at 60fps could not traditionally fit onto 32 mb. The developers could program there own tiling tecnique but that added development time, so the easier option for 3rd parties like Ghosts or BF4 was to just drop the res so it fit on 32mb. The fact this only rolled out in Feb from MS so the devs have the tiling done for them shows MS weren ready for Nov release. 

DX12 is different again. It allows the CPU and GPU to do the sam tasks but much more efficiently. So whereas on DX11 Ryse may hit limits in places,DX12 can achieve the same as RYSE but have headroom for more tasks. The ESRAM issue was SDK coming after release. DX12is improving CPU and GPU efficiency not capable on DX11 at all. 360 used the same DX its entire gen. The One is th first console to have an upgaded DX. And in this case a big benefit to resources.


What conclusion you are asking?? That both will have great games?? By the fact that MS fans love MS franchises and will find their games great, and the same applies to Sony fans =]

About DX for X1 I would say since it was made as DX12 compatible from the start it was developed to be one DX for the gen, just really delayed. But I wouldn't seriously get my hopes up for MS PRs since they have been very misleading, including in the "no way we would allow 30%+ of advantage" when promissing to correct it in 2 years.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

ethomaz on 07 April 2014

selnor1983 said:

The site I use differes greatly. More like 10-15%

http://gpuboss.com/gpus/Radeon-HD-7870-vs-Radeon-HD-7790

Your site agree with me... they only tested one game.

Ohhhh and the source is AnandTech... my sources

PS. 29.4 to 44.2 is 50% of improviment... HD 7790 to HD 7870 is 43% of improviment in RAW POWER.



selnor1983 on 07 April 2014
DonFerrari said:
selnor1983 said:
DonFerrari said:
selnor1983 said:
DonFerrari said:
Before release people said MS would have the better API and that would balance HW difference, then they say SDK was garbage (justificative for inferior ports) and now a new API and SDK will make it double perform... Why do I find it hard to believe amidst all this flip flop of defensors? Please decide if. MS is a great SW developer and it will enhance API or they are shit and made an horrible API before, you can't have both. You just have to accept MS is at least pretty good SW dev and the first SDK was good, but the new one will be better. So what we can really count on is that both consoles will get better SW (API and games) and the difference will probably stay stable.


Before release it was rumoured one manufacturer was behind schedule. The developers told us MS SDK was behind. It wast garbage, MS just reacted to Sonys early release of PS4. MS were the ones rumoured to release in 2014. So yes MS were behind on SDK in developments aligned with PS4 SDK. The facts were there fo people who waned to read them. It was just not as fun as saying 50% advantage. When it has never worked that way even ith PC GPU's 50% supposed paper specs dont translate into 50% better results at all. Never has never will. 

I do believe MS have rushed a console release for the 2nd time... just don't agree with people that first said 50% would be BS because MS was a good SW dev, and would certainly have a better SDK than Sony (as proved by X360 being easier to dev than PS3), and that ESRAM would be easy as cake because X360 used EDRAM. And them when the first games came (even without any report of the reason) they put the blame on ESRAM being more difficult and SDK being obsolete... and now they believe DX12 will solve everything and/or new SDK... so yes I have reason not to believe this people.

And the worst part is to have to hear that everybody that doubt it is a hater and doesn't want to see X1 get better... It's quite tiring as well being called names and see people play victim...

In the end of course X1 games will get a lot better.


Ho did you come to that conclusion? 

SDK was behind. Part of the recent SDK roll out in February was to take a new problem not existing on EDRAM in that 1080p at 60fps could not traditionally fit onto 32 mb. The developers could program there own tiling tecnique but that added development time, so the easier option for 3rd parties like Ghosts or BF4 was to just drop the res so it fit on 32mb. The fact this only rolled out in Feb from MS so the devs have the tiling done for them shows MS weren ready for Nov release. 

DX12 is different again. It allows the CPU and GPU to do the sam tasks but much more efficiently. So whereas on DX11 Ryse may hit limits in places,DX12 can achieve the same as RYSE but have headroom for more tasks. The ESRAM issue was SDK coming after release. DX12is improving CPU and GPU efficiency not capable on DX11 at all. 360 used the same DX its entire gen. The One is th first console to have an upgaded DX. And in this case a big benefit to resources.


What conclusion you are asking?? That both will have great games?? By the fact that MS fans love MS franchises and will find their games great, and the same applies to Sony fans =]

About DX for X1 I would say since it was made as DX12 compatible from the start it was developed to be one DX for the gen, just really delayed. But I wouldn't seriously get my hopes up for MS PRs since they have been very misleading, including in the "no way we would allow 30%+ of advantage" when promissing to correct it in 2 years.

No not at all.

All m saying is at the start of the gen, any differences wernt down to hardware. It was down to MS being late to the party. They had the exclusves at launch, but not the right tools to build them as far along as PS4 devs did. Im not saying PS4 wont have games with more effects etc. But the gap wont be massive.