Einsam_Delphin said: ICStats said: Wii U is Dreamcast doomed. Luckily compared to Sega, Nintendo is not going to run out of capital. Oh come on now! Surely it'll end up closer to GC than DC!

Sure it will thanks to being on the market longer than DC.  DC was discontinued before it even had 2 years on the market in US & EU, due to losing too much money in a pricing war with PS2.

However:

• LTD sales: DC < Wii U < GC  (please correct if you have accurate figures)
• Support: Wii U < DC < GC  (my opinion)
• Wii U quickly abandoned by 3rd party like DC.  3rd party didn't really abandon GC.
• Wii U representation at retail is bad like DC.

Einsam_Delphin said: yvanjean said: Too much stuff Okay well your opinions on the game don't change that it is infact a Mario Kart game! GC and Wii U are both Nintendo consoles that struggled/are struggling to outsell their predecessor, hence they are comparable. Yes there are some differences in their situations, but things don't have to be exactly the same to be compared! And no I'm thinking it'll do around 5 million this year, and end up with around 19 million lifetime. That 5.5 million figure is from launch to end of 2013, it didn't actually sell that much in one year. Why do ya think 2015 will be it's peak year? And 40-60 million!? How is that gonna happen!? o_O

WiiU's competition currently is ps3; ps4; xbox 360 & Xbox one .... In 2013 the wiiu was overpriced compared to PS3 & Xbox 360 ... Consumer were unwilling to switch console or prefer the cheaper alternative. As we go forward and PS3 and Xbox 360 slowly get phased out Nintendo WiiU will position itself to Behring the cheaper alternative. 

The console market in 2009-2012 was around 30-40 million a year; therefore I'm expecting these numbers for 2015-2017 if Nintendo can manage to get 20-25% market share that would be like 7.5-10 million consoles a year.

 Mario Kart is ideal game to boost console sale great family/casual game but still can grab the attention of hardcore gamers. Mario Kart and a Super smash brother are two great multiplayer and can create great word of mouth marketing for the Wiiu.

 

Einsam_Delphin said: I know what ya mean, but it is still a price cut technically, officially, and literally, for reals! Certainly better than doing nothing, and at the very least it set's up the next price cut to be more impactful.

Ill admit it technically is a price cut but without actually lowering the base price its kinda pointless. I realized I still havent answered the question in the op lol so here it goes.

By ur definition of saved, Wii U will need to sell about 27.5 million lifetime. Is that possible? Yes. Is it gauranteed? No. Personally im mixed on whether I think it will achieve this goal and my prediction is anywhere from 15-30 million lifetime.

As of March 31, 2003 shipments of Gamecube were at 9.55 million and Nintendo is forcasting 6.25 million Wii U as of March 31, 2014. Currently Wii U is tracking about 2/3 of Gamecube in the same time frame which leads me to my 15 million prediction assuming that it continues to track at the same rate.

Also u have to consider a few things, Wii U is twice the price of Gamecube at this point ($299 vs $149) and has a smaller amount of core Nintendo franchises (the primary reason to own either of these consoles). At this point Gamecube had Smash Bros, Luigi's Mansion, Pikmin, Mario Sunshine, Star Fox Adventures, Animal Crossing, Metroid Prime, Zelda Wind Waker, Wave Race, Mario Party. It also had a nice selection of 3rd party exclusives like Resident Evil Zero/Remake, Eternal Darkness, Rogue Squadron II, Super Monkey Ball 1+2, Sonic Adventure 2 Battle.

On the other hand Wii U has 2 Marios, Nintendo Land, Wind Waker HD, Pikmin 3, Donkey Kong Country, Wii Party. And 3rd party exclusives include ZombiU, Lego City, Wonderful 101, Sonic Lost World. So basically Wii U is twice the price and has half the exclusives. Over the next 12 months or so we can expect to see Mario Kart, Smash Bros, Yarn Yoshi, Bayonetta 2, X, Sonic Boom, SMTxFE and maybe a $50 price cut (additional $50 cut from retailers over holidays).

Now u could say, well its still much more expensive since by the end of 2003 GC was $99 and Wii U will still be $199-249. Its not just about price but also price compared to competitors. For the majority of Gamecubes life it was only $50 less expensive than PS2 or $99-149 vs $149-199. With built in DVD player and much bigger library that extra $50 was well worth it which is the same situation as Wii U vs PS4 or $299 vs $399. Blu-Ray+better online+more power+better support make the extra $100 a worthy investment. If and only if Wii U can get down to $199 before PS4 gets a price cut and quickly starts building up/diversifying Its exclusive library than maybe it has a chance of pulling past Gamecube level sales.

Overall I wouldnt be surprised if it fails to reach this goal but at the same time wouldnt be surprised if it does. And maybe the upcoming NFC game will be a huge system pusher.

yvanjean said: Einsam_Delphin said: yvanjean said: 1. WiiU's competition currently is ps3; ps4; xbox 360 & Xbox one .... In 2013 the wiiu was overpriced compared to PS3 & Xbox 360 ... Consumer were unwilling to switch console or prefer the cheaper alternative. As we go forward and PS3 and Xbox 360 slowly get phased out Nintendo WiiU will position itself to Behring the cheaper alternative.  2. The console market in 2009-2012 was around 30-40 million a year; therefore I'm expecting these numbers for 2015-2017 if Nintendo can manage to get 20-25% market share that would be like 7.5-10 million consoles a year. 3. Mario Kart is ideal game to boost console sale great family/casual game but still can grab the attention of hardcore gamers. Mario Kart and a Super smash brother are two great multiplayer and can create great word of mouth marketing for the Wiiu.

1. The Gamecube was also the cheaper alternative!

2. All last gen consoles were selling well, but that's not the case this gen. Nintendo n Microsoft made too many mistakes this time around, so there's no way those numbers will be replicated. Unfortunately, this gen as a whole is looking to sell much worse than last gen. Also, I still don't see how exactly they're gonna out perform the year MK8 and SSB4 released in.

3. Of course they'll boost console sales, but not enough to change trajectory. Again, see N64 and GC. Why yal refuse to acknowledge the fact that they've never saved any system from the usual trend of selling worse than the previous gen I'll never know! xD

Einsam_Delphin said: yvanjean said: Einsam_Delphin said: yvanjean said: 1. WiiU's competition currently is ps3; ps4; xbox 360 & Xbox one .... In 2013 the wiiu was overpriced compared to PS3 & Xbox 360 ... Consumer were unwilling to switch console or prefer the cheaper alternative. As we go forward and PS3 and Xbox 360 slowly get phased out Nintendo WiiU will position itself to Behring the cheaper alternative.  2. The console market in 2009-2012 was around 30-40 million a year; therefore I'm expecting these numbers for 2015-2017 if Nintendo can manage to get 20-25% market share that would be like 7.5-10 million consoles a year. 3. Mario Kart is ideal game to boost console sale great family/casual game but still can grab the attention of hardcore gamers. Mario Kart and a Super smash brother are two great multiplayer and can create great word of mouth marketing for the Wiiu.   1. The Gamecube was also the cheaper alternative!

I agree with u on points 2 & 3 but theres more to It than simply price. Yes Gamecube was cheaper but from May 2002 until the end of its life, Gamecube was only about $50 cheaper than PS2 and with the ability to watch movies/listen to music and much larger library that extra $50 was well worth it.

Thats the same situation as Wii U vs PS4 right now, $299 vs $399. For an extra $100 u get a more powerful console, better 3rd party support, large storage, Blu-Ray, much better online and more multimedia features. If Wii U can get down to $199-249 before PS4 gets a price cut than it will be in a better position than GC was against PS2.

zorg1000 said: Einsam_Delphin said: yvanjean said: Einsam_Delphin said: yvanjean said: 1. WiiU's competition currently is ps3; ps4; xbox 360 & Xbox one .... In 2013 the wiiu was overpriced compared to PS3 & Xbox 360 ... Consumer were unwilling to switch console or prefer the cheaper alternative. As we go forward and PS3 and Xbox 360 slowly get phased out Nintendo WiiU will position itself to Behring the cheaper alternative.  2. The console market in 2009-2012 was around 30-40 million a year; therefore I'm expecting these numbers for 2015-2017 if Nintendo can manage to get 20-25% market share that would be like 7.5-10 million consoles a year. 3. Mario Kart is ideal game to boost console sale great family/casual game but still can grab the attention of hardcore gamers. Mario Kart and a Super smash brother are two great multiplayer and can create great word of mouth marketing for the Wiiu.   1. The Gamecube was also the cheaper alternative! I agree with u on points 2 & 3 but theres more to It than simply price.

Not when we're strictly talking about price. He said the Wii U will soon be the cheapest option, hence I said that didn't help the gamecube, and so that's the end of that!

Einsam_Delphin said: yvanjean said: Einsam_Delphin said: yvanjean said: 1. WiiU's competition currently is ps3; ps4; xbox 360 & Xbox one .... In 2013 the wiiu was overpriced compared to PS3 & Xbox 360 ... Consumer were unwilling to switch console or prefer the cheaper alternative. As we go forward and PS3 and Xbox 360 slowly get phased out Nintendo WiiU will position itself to Behring the cheaper alternative.  2. The console market in 2009-2012 was around 30-40 million a year; therefore I'm expecting these numbers for 2015-2017 if Nintendo can manage to get 20-25% market share that would be like 7.5-10 million consoles a year. 3. Mario Kart is ideal game to boost console sale great family/casual game but still can grab the attention of hardcore gamers. Mario Kart and a Super smash brother are two great multiplayer and can create great word of mouth marketing for the Wiiu.   1. The Gamecube was also the cheaper alternative! 2. All last gen consoles were selling well, but that's not the case this gen. Nintendo n Microsoft made too many mistakes this time around, so there's no way those numbers will be replicated. Unfortunately, this gen as a whole is looking to sell much worse than last gen. Also, I still don't see how exactly they're gonna out perform the year MK8 and SSB4 released in. 3. Of course they'll boost console sales, but not enough to change trajectory. Again, see N64 and GC. Why yal refuse to acknowledge the fact that they've never saved any system from the usual trend of selling worse than the previous gen I'll never know! xD

1. Sony cut the price of the console in May 2002 from US$299 to $199 in North America,^[22] making it the same price as the GameCube and $100 less than the Xbox. It was never really the cheapest alternative.... to make matters worse PS2 was also a DVD players hence why they ruled that generation even though it was graphically inferior to both the Xbox and Gamecube.

2. I think gamers, especially Nintendo fan aren't realizing that the 8th generation started in November 2014, Nintendo WiiU was stuck in limbo for a year since it faced fierce competition from the cheaper Xbox360 and PS3 which had a much bigger library of game. As of today, Nintendo is second in the 8th generation consoles race and still haven't establish itself as the cheaper alternative until PS3 and Xbox 360 are discontinued or have sever reduce shelf space at retail.  

 

3. Nintendo Wii was third bestselling consoles of all time, beside Nintendo profited from Sony totally dropping the ball with PS3 and the $499 & $599 price fiasco. Had PS3 release with a DVD player and cost $399 history would of been much different? Again you keep saying saving the system???? What you're talking about is Nintendo reclaiming its dominance and being market leader. Nintendo can be very successful with 25-30% market share and beside Nintendo actually makes a profit on hardware compare to the competition. Beside, in recent year most of Nintendo losses are attributed to foreign exchange fluctuation not because the business is actually turning in a loss. The biggest problem with the WiiU is that Nintendo tried to push an overpriced consoles on consumer and assume that 10 million early adopter would of blindly handed their money over for a consoles that doesn't differentiate itself enough from the cheaper PS360. 

Nintendo sold every Wii consoles with a healty Gross profit margin and got away with it for many years during the first 3 years of the Wii life cycle. Nintendo Wii marketing was simply from word of mouth and they've haven't learned anything from the last consoles. Where they went from business leader in the early year to allowing Microsoft and Sony to let it all evaporated in the later years. I still think the Wii U is over price, if the WiiU basic sold for $199 and WiiU deluxe at $249.99, you can't tell me there wouldn''t be a boost in sales. Nintendo could recoup most of their lost from the sales of one 1st party game. The consoles would be very well position compared to the PS4 @ $399 and Xbox One $499.99.

 

yvanjean said: Einsam_Delphin said: yvanjean said: Too much stuff

1. The Gamecube was the only one at $99 for a good while iirc. Yes the PS2's perceived value was obviously higher, just like the PS4's perceived value is higher than Wii U's, so what's your point there?

2. Consumers don't care when a generation starts lol. That's just an arbitrary term. Once a new product is available they'll start buying it. Regardless, the Wii U is doing just as badly so far this year, despite SM3DW + other games + price cut + advertising + new bundles + holidays. If all that did nothing, it's safe to say that nothing else from the usual console cycle (more games, price cuts, etc.) will. Now I'm starting to sound like a broken record! xD

3. No, what I'm talking about here is the Wii U not even being able to outsell the GC. Don't know why you're trying to bring up the Wii n PS3 n profits n stuff. I'm still just waiting to hear about how the Wii U is gonna out do the year Mario Kart 8 releases in, and how MK and SSB are gonna make a difference now when they never have before, especially considering SSB4 is multiplatform. Atleast answer those questions!

Einsam_Delphin said: yvanjean said: Einsam_Delphin said: yvanjean said: Too much stuff 3. No, what I'm talking about here is the Wii U not even being able to outsell the GC. Don't know why you're trying to bring up the Wii n PS3 n profits n stuff. I'm still just waiting to hear about how the Wii U is gonna out do the year Mario Kart 8 releases in, and how MK and SSB are gonna make a difference now when they never have before, especially considering SSB4 is multiplatform. Atleast answer those questions!

In 2014 -  MK8 & SSB with a console selling at $299 bundle price.
In 2015 -  A console that include multiple Mario games, MK8 & SSBU..... big new release of Animal Crossing U; Metroid U, Monolith's X & Zelda U for 2015 and $199-249.99 MK8 WIIU bundle. No more competition from Xbox 360 and PS3. First console version of Pokemon??

yvanjean said: Einsam_Delphin said: yvanjean said: Einsam_Delphin said: yvanjean said: Too much stuff In 2014 -  MK8 & SSB with a console selling at $299 bundle price. In 2015 -  A console that include multiple Mario games, MK8 & SSBU..... big new release of Animal Crossing U; Metroid U, Monolith's X & Zelda U for 2015 and $199-249.99 MK8 WIIU bundle. No more competition from Xbox 360 and PS3. First console version of Pokemon??

See my last response to point 2. More of the same is not gonna do anything. How many times must it be said for you to understand! The Wii U has already gotten games, already gotten price cuts, already gotten new bundles, etc, and is still selling worse than Gamecube. Speaking of which, the Gamecube also had Mario Kart, Metroid, Animal Crossing, Zelda, price cuts, bundles, etc., yet still sold worse than it's predecessor the N64, who with most of those same games still sold worse than the SNES, which sold worse than the NES! Nintendo consoles selling worse than their predecessor has always been the trend sadly.

The Wii managed to become an exception to this trend because it did something different, being Motion Controls + the Wii ___ series, though those have run their course. The only thing outside the norm you've brought up is a mainline home console Pokemon game, but the creators have said they're sticking to handhelds, which you know is true after they still didn't make one even though the GC coulda used it.

Btw, I think it'd be stupid of them not to do another price cut this year to go along with the biggest game the system will ever get, and Monolith's X is slated to release this year, not that the game will have any impact on long term HW sales, same with pretty much all games at this point really. :L