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Forums - Gaming - Developers are thinking AAA development very risk and jumping to risk free Indie Development [AAA games doomed]

 

How do you buy AAA games?

Good reviewed games only 27 23.28%
 
Good reviewed day one, av... 10 8.62%
 
Good reviewed day one, average/poor no buy 2 1.72%
 
Don't care reviews, depe... 46 39.66%
 
Don't care reviews, depends on developers 9 7.76%
 
Don't care reviews, depends on franchise 8 6.90%
 
Don't care reviews, but ... 14 12.07%
 
Total:116

i buy nintendo AAA titles, they are never bad.



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I blame call of duty.



Wow, that quickly derailed into a useless discussion of what defines an indie and what not. Independent developers - independent from what? From the big publishers, so the problem starts with who we consider one of the big publishers and who not. And how much involvemen of the publisher makes the game no longer independent? Does publishing the game count? What if the big publisher only covers some platforms, on other the dev releases the game on itself? Is releasing on Steam considered as Valve-published? Or does Steam count as a retailer? What if the publisher also covers marketing costs? And is a game still indie, if the publisher completely funds the game and get an exclusive contract?

I don't think all that is relevant to the point of the OP. The point of the OP is, that expensive game creation is troubled these days while games with smaller budgets have to take lesser risks. If that is an indie or not is unimportant.



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I think it is a convenient excuse to go small to try to squeeze more money out of a not AAA title, this way they dont get pinned as sorry ass greedy bastards. It helps to be a victim when trying to be shady.

Yes sometimes someone has to get away fro mthe big publisher who will not let the dev do what he is paid to do. But not in alot of places.



 

Player2 said:

Where is the "I wait until they show up in PS+" option in the poll?

This poll is not meant only for Playstation and its for all the consoles. 



GAMING is not about spending hours to pass/waste our time just for fun,

its a Feeling/Experience about a VIRTUAL WORLD we can never be in real, and realizing some of our dreams (also creating new ones).

So, Feel Emotions, Experience Adventure/Action, Challenge Game, Solve puzzles and Have fun.

PlayStation is about all-round "New experiences" using new IP's to provide great diversity for everyone.

Xbox is always about Online and Shooting.

Nintendo is always about Fun games and milking IP's.

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I don't think "AAA" games are doomed. I think, if anything, those mid-range titles that we know and love will start to disappear from the gaming landscape, and we'll see, increasingly, two large peaks represented, on one side, by a handful of multi-million dollar franchises and, on the other side, relatively low-budget indie games. In the middle will be the discarded remains of Darksiders, Dead Space, Red Faction, TimeSplitters, etc.

Personally, I wouldn't mind if the "AAA" model was abandoned altogether. Development and advertising costs for some of these games are obscene and, in many cases, a particularly passionate and ingenious small studio can produce a better product for a fraction of the cost.



Pemalite said:
biglittlesps said:
Pemalite said:
biglittlesps said:
Pemalite said:
Price is a big factor.
The cheaper the price, the less weight people give to reviews and more games they buy.

Also, sales like what are on Steam... Actually increases profits, Valve stated this before, but after a sale, the sales rate is increased from before the sale, thus during and after the sale, the developer gets more money, this is something Microsoft and Sony needs to push for, no one does a games sale like Valve does and it really is good for everyone.

People only have finite sized wallets, prices for games have increased slowly, massively with all the DLC/Expansions/Pay Walls, just unfortunately some things needs to give, usually the first is less game purchases, more obscure developers end up missing out.


Yes, Price is a factor but you should realize that there are many people who are depending on gaming industry in retail games which is why it has high price compared steam digital sales which serves only three (Steam, developers and publishers). If the Console do the same then lot of people around the world will lose jobs and only Developers/Publishers will earn profits. Consoles are doing as much as they can to match digitial prices without impact on retails with their deals/sales every month.

Steam may have increased Indie sales with their deals but not many AAA sales compared to Consoles have mostly.


Retail stores are partly at fault.
Over the years before Steam came along they constantly reduced the amount of shelf space dedicated to PC games, it actually reached a stupid state, piracy began to run rampant.
Then Steam came along and solved all of the PC gamers problems.

Besides, Brick and Mortar stores may have stopped supporting PC games, but dozens of online business's have sprung up dedicated to that target demographic, like Green Man Gaming, Gamers Gate, Good Old Games and the plethera of CD Key websites.
It's Capitalism at it's finest, if there is demand, then that demand will be met by new business's, if you neglect the demand and don't change with the market conditions and fail, then you deserve to fail, that shouldn't be something that's prevented by government bailouts or special market conditions.

Besides, the "digital" price matching is pretty laughable, you looked at a new released game on the Xbox Live Network? It's usually the same price or more expensive than the version you can find in store, digital should be cheaper by default, there is no packaging, shipping, manufacturing or other extra's like manuals, guides and such that you're getting.

As for the last line on your post, it's difficult to understand it, could you elaborate? From what I can understand you're basically saying that AAA games don't benefit which is ironic, because even AAA games on Steam have benefitted from the sales, hence why Valve is happy to discount it's own franchises which have sold millions of copies already.

They do for a reason and its to balance the Retail and Digital. If they go cheaper in digital most of them will buy digital games then their retail sales will be less so the people who depend on this will be doomed. Gaming industry should provide help as many as possible with jobs instead of cutting the middle man and giving the games very cheap in digital.

AAA games benefit from steam sales but not makes great returns like Console sales does for the developers. Consoles can't do same sales very fast like Steam because it will make the retail games to be fade away along with the business of retailers and manufacturers who depend on them( which PC does not has any more like you said due to piracy). 

Xbox Live may not have but did you see PSN sales every weeek? They are providing very reasonable deals and sometimes great ones which happens every week.

You're missing the point, by balancing the retail and digital, they're trying to defy one of the amazing concepts of capitalism.
Capitalism when it's in full swing and there are no influences brings consumers more choice, lower prices and more convenience because of increased competition which also spurrs on more innovation.
There shouldn't be any help for the middle man, let them fail if they can't compete, when capitalism is working in full swing with no interferance, it will create more jobs as more competitors can enter the market.

As for AAA games not making great returns like they do on console? Well. PC games are more profitable to begin with.
For instance a PC developer if they so wished, can release a game on none of the major networks.
Wanna know how much Microsoft and Sony steal out of every game sold? You're looking at something like 30%, then they have to pay to have DLC and patches put out too.

For example EA sell their digital games via their own digital store origin on the PC, thus every game sold is 30% more money in their pockets, they don't have additional patches and dlc costs on top of that either, thus in turn more money trickles to the developer.
The consumer also pays (Without additional discounting) $10 less on PC than on Console for a new released game and the Developer can still end up with more money than from the equivalent sale on console.

As for PSN sales every week... Maaaaate... You really don't know what a sale is do you?
Steams sales discounts thousands of items/games all at once, remember Steam has more games than the Xbox 360 or Playstation 3 and the majority of it is discounted, let that sink in for a moment.
That's then compounded by mid week and weekend sales.
You also have other sales pop-up all the time.
At this current time, 68 games/DLC/addons/stuff are discounted on Steam.
The Autumn/Spring Sale is only a few months away (Again, thousands of stuff will be discounted.)

Then you have other sales from Humble Bundle, Green Man Gaming, Gamers Gate, Direct 2 Drive, Gamefly, Origin, uPlay, Good Old Games, Desura, Amazon and probably dozens more, basically, if you're buying a PC game at full price, then you really are doing it wrong.
The consoles can't compete on the PC's heavy discounting because of the much larger amounts of competition, again, thanks to capitalism, there arne't any restrictions to appease the brick and mortar and that's the way it should be, it's better for everyone.

is this a good thing for gaming "not buying the game at full price"?  This is going to turn the gamers completely stop buying games at full price one day for the most of the them and will become a norm for them (buying more games at hugely dicounts but not playing most of the games). This is one of the big reasons why the AAA games are not working for developers and they are closing the studios to follow risk free indie platform with small games because Steam (huge discounts)/Mobiles(addware) game prices made gamers to think that paying the AAA game prices is stupid and they are avoiding to buy those games.

PC/Steam encouraging the gamers to buy discounted games instead of full price mostly, which is making(soon going to be even worse) the users to think that paying full price for AAA game is not good and should wait for deals/sales. This is not a good thing for AAA developers in future and for Gamers making them to mentally think paying full price for a game is bad idea. Also steam users are buying so many games even though they dont want to play them because of the huge discounts trick and by this Gamers lose money on buying the games which they never play mostly instead of buying the gaming at full price which they want to play. 

If PC's are more profitable then why the AAA devlopers would not invest in PC only exclusives instead they chose Indie kind of games.

Consoles are the one which is keeping the AAA games alive and trying to invest/support the 3rd parties to make more games not the PC's which in real hurting the AAA game price with their deals(they just provide some help but not the real saver for a AAA game alone, but very useful for Indie games). Consoles trying to balance retail and digital as much as possible to keep developers and retailers happy.

If this continues for few more years then most of the AAA studios who is working will be closed because games are not turning profits very well and will jump to indie system. If there are no AAA games then consoles will be stopped and everyone should play indie/F2P games flooded with huge number of useless games like Andriod  in Mobiles, Tablets and PCs. That will be end of the real Gaming industry and games will become like a social app. 



GAMING is not about spending hours to pass/waste our time just for fun,

its a Feeling/Experience about a VIRTUAL WORLD we can never be in real, and realizing some of our dreams (also creating new ones).

So, Feel Emotions, Experience Adventure/Action, Challenge Game, Solve puzzles and Have fun.

PlayStation is about all-round "New experiences" using new IP's to provide great diversity for everyone.

Xbox is always about Online and Shooting.

Nintendo is always about Fun games and milking IP's.

For me topic reads like "AAA devs finally understand Nintendo philosophy"

Strange.



Veknoid_Outcast said:
I don't think "AAA" games are doomed. I think, if anything, those mid-range titles that we know and love will start to disappear from the gaming landscape, and we'll see, increasingly, two large peaks represented, on one side, by a handful of multi-million dollar franchises and, on the other side, relatively low-budget indie games. In the middle will be the discarded remains of Darksiders, Dead Space, Red Faction, TimeSplitters, etc.

Personally, I wouldn't mind if the "AAA" model was abandoned altogether. Development and advertising costs for some of these games are obscene and, in many cases, a particularly passionate and ingenious small studio can produce a better product for a fraction of the cost.

Every big franchise is declining and in future it will be worse. What's the point of purchasing the console only for few AAA games(See how Wii U is doing)? What if the one of those few AAA games released did not sell very well? How the console makers make money if there aren't many AAA games which is the driving force for the consoles because Indies are avaiable in every platform mostly? 

Death of AAA game development means consoles are dead and we will be playing games through our mobiles/PC's only in next gen which are mostly Indies/F2P's which is the driving force of Mobiles/PC's.



GAMING is not about spending hours to pass/waste our time just for fun,

its a Feeling/Experience about a VIRTUAL WORLD we can never be in real, and realizing some of our dreams (also creating new ones).

So, Feel Emotions, Experience Adventure/Action, Challenge Game, Solve puzzles and Have fun.

PlayStation is about all-round "New experiences" using new IP's to provide great diversity for everyone.

Xbox is always about Online and Shooting.

Nintendo is always about Fun games and milking IP's.

Player2 said:
Nem said:
Why does it have to be all-in or all-out? Why cant there be ahappy medium just like it used to onthe ps1 and ps2 eras?

Because a game with good enough graphics and presentation to not get panned by reviewers and looked down by gamers that sells 1M isn't profitable anymore.


Yup. That is the truth of it.

I blame reviewers cause they cant make the distinction between a bad game and a game with a modest budget at its best.