You're strawmanning, I never said PS4 graphics wouldn't improve over time. I said its closer to its potential than Wii U is, and I stand by that, because currently Wii U doesn't have one single game designed from the ground up to push the hardware, while PS4 does.

And you're meandering to maintain a flawed argument.

If you truly believe the PS4 software development has "pushed close to it's potential" with it's launch lineup, you're in for a really hard E3.

So if sales=quality does that also mean quality=sales? What if a game/movie/book/CD is 100% liked by everyone who played/watched/read/listened to it but still didnt sell extremely well do to lack of advertising and public awareness? Would that make it a non quality product because it didnt sell well?

The lack of advertising is one thing but if the product like minecraft was able to sell so well without any spending on marketing then it just goes to show you that market demand is the determinant factor.

lets say a publisher spends $1 billion dollars on advertising a specific game, making sure there is a TV spot on every channel at least once per hour, has an ad in every major magazine, pays reviewers to give perfect scores, has the most popular celebrities hype it up and has promos at every major sporting event which causes the public awareness of the game to be through the roof. The game sells 10 million units week one but most those people realize they hate the game and sell it before they even finish it. The game sells zero untis from that point forward and is so hated that the game never gets any sequels and the publisher goes bankrupt from spending so much money on advertising.

Your example is more than ridiculous ... Like said before "Customers are not perfect either." but they really aren't that stupid to let that situation happen. Marketing and hype can only go so far to distort sales but overall customers will still determine the quality. BF4 sold less than BF3 despite having more marketing push. Hype and Marketing can not create market demand.

Compare that to a game with little to no advertising with a very small amount of people who even know the game exists. The game sells 100k in the first month and almost everybody who plays it loves it. Through word of mouth the game becomes more popular and sales begin to increase, over the course of a year it goes on to sell 3 million units and the company makes a ton of money allowing them to make multiple sequels. Which one of the these games would be considered a more quality product?

That obviously is a decent quality product seeing as how it has meaningful legs to be able to pull off decent long term sales but your last example is mostly null and void.

Or another example a game releases with a price tag of $1 and sells 30 million compare that to a game that costs $60 and sells 25 million. The $1 game costs 1/60 the price but barely outsells the other. Is it a more quality product just because it was able to sell more?

This is the console space ... It's obvious that the $60 game is of better quality but profits/revenue are also another measure to quality too but so are customers. 

He was talking about 3D World not Pikmin for the part u bolded.

And you're meandering to maintain a flawed argument.

If you truly believe the PS4 software development has "pushed close to it's potential" with it's launch lineup, you're in for a really hard E3.

You're putting words in his mouth.  All he's saying is that the WiiU follows the more traditional route that consoles have in the past where things improve tremendously over time simply because its architecture isn't as familiar or easy to code for devs in the beginning.

The PS4 is x86, which is great, but it makes it easier to harness its potential quicker.  For example, DICE is plenty familiar with x86 architecture yet B4 still had its res lowered to 900p to ensure performance.  Was that a shoddy job by DICE?  Could it have run in 1080p with more time?  Quite possibly, but DICE are known for impressive graphics with x86 architecture so it's not like they were limited to working with exotic architecture with the PS4.

Every console will improve over time.  From what I've seen, I already think Infamous looks better than any of the PS4 launch games and I'm expecting Uncharted 4 to look even better.  And the WiiU will never be able to hold a candle graphics-wise to most PS4 games from a technical standpoint.  But what WiiU could do is show the most graphical improvement over its lifetime from launch to discontinuation compared to the PS4/XB1 which might hit their peak quicker.

I'm glad someone else noticed that.  Reading fail by multiple posters a little too keen to poo-poo the WiiU :)

Regardless, Pikmin 3 is a beautiful and quite excellent game.

He is saying that the leap in quality between launch titles on the ps4 and games late in its life will not share the same advancements in quality,  as previous consoles or the WiiU, his only basis for this is that killzone was built from the ground up for the PS4, that basis is a loose and inaccurate representation, I've been a developer for various games studios for well over a decade and I am seeing strides made in PS4 development just as impressive and shocking as advancements in all of the other platforms I have worked on.

The WiiU will indeed see advancements over its lifetime, but that is entirely my point (read my first post in this thread), I state, clearly, that comparing games much later in to the development cycle of a console to launch titles is a biased and skewed way to approach it, which is when Curl piped up.

Again, reality is that all of the consoles are seeing major improvements in all areas as developers spend more time with the consoles, ease of development is a double edged sword in terms of quality, you could argue that its easier for developers to push the hardware, but i would argue, and point to a large portion of the WiiU's third party offerings, the point that familiarity and ease of development breeds lazyness as much as it breeds innovation, so having exotic hardware or straight forward hardware has its own caveats over the course of the platforms life.

But I degress, it's completely pointless to bring my experience to the table because he is simply going to believe that the WiiU will make larger advancements than the PlayStation 4, because it's more beneficial to his opinion and preference to do so.