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Forums - Nintendo Discussion - After seeing Bayonetta 2 and 'X' in action today...

 

The PS4's power seems...

Better, but not THAT much better anymore... 241 15.42%
 
Are you crazy?! The PS4 is GOD! 349 22.33%
 
The Wii U is clearly unde... 741 47.41%
 
The PS4 is selling better... 36 2.30%
 
I think I'll be buying a... 191 12.22%
 
Total:1,558
fatslob-:O said:
zorg1000 said:

So if sales=quality does that also mean quality=sales? What if a game/movie/book/CD is 100% liked by everyone who played/watched/read/listened to it but still didnt sell extremely well do to lack of advertising and public awareness? Would that make it a non quality product because it didnt sell well?

The lack of advertising is one thing but if the product like minecraft was able to sell so well without any spending on marketing then it just goes to show you that market demand is the determinant factor.

lets say a publisher spends $1 billion dollars on advertising a specific game, making sure there is a TV spot on every channel at least once per hour, has an ad in every major magazine, pays reviewers to give perfect scores, has the most popular celebrities hype it up and has promos at every major sporting event which causes the public awareness of the game to be through the roof. The game sells 10 million units week one but most those people realize they hate the game and sell it before they even finish it. The game sells zero untis from that point forward and is so hated that the game never gets any sequels and the publisher goes bankrupt from spending so much money on advertising.

Your example is more than ridiculous ... Like said before "Customers are not perfect either." but they really aren't that stupid to let that situation happen. Marketing and hype can only go so far to distort sales but overall customers will still determine the quality. BF4 sold less than BF3 despite having more marketing push. Hype and Marketing can not create market demand.

Compare that to a game with little to no advertising with a very small amount of people who even know the game exists. The game sells 100k in the first month and almost everybody who plays it loves it. Through word of mouth the game becomes more popular and sales begin to increase, over the course of a year it goes on to sell 3 million units and the company makes a ton of money allowing them to make multiple sequels. Which one of the these games would be considered a more quality product?

That obviously is a decent quality product seeing as how it has meaningful legs to be able to pull off decent long term sales but your last example is mostly null and void.

Or another example a game releases with a price tag of $1 and sells 30 million compare that to a game that costs $60 and sells 25 million. The $1 game costs 1/60 the price but barely outsells the other. Is it a more quality product just because it was able to sell more?

This is the console space ... It's obvious that the $60 game is of better quality but profits/revenue are also another measure to quality too but so are customers. 




Ok so this makes it seem like ur saying sales and quality do not equal the same thing but they do for the most part have a strong correlation which I agree with. An absolutely shitty game will not sell 10s of millions and its also possible for a high quality game to be a sleeper hit and not sell well. Sales=/=quality but they do go hand in hand many times.

Ur previous posts about this subject seem like ur trying to say if a game sells better than another game then it is automatically a higher quality game which is not true all the time. Advertising is a big part of sales as is genre. Certain genres simply dont appeal to as many people as others. A platformer like Mario has wide appeal to kids, parents, men, women, basically every demographic can enjoy Mario. They are easy to pick up and play and are family friendly. On the other hand Survival-Horror games have a smaller window to sell to, not because platformers are of higher quality but because most kids wont be allowed to play them, many times they are more difficult which makes novice gamers less likely to play them and if ur a scaredy cat, dont enjoy violence, gore disgusts u then ur not likely to play these types of games.

Install base can also have a major role whether or not a game sells well. Ur right when u say the point of a game Is to sell the hardware so In theory If a game Is the highest quality game ever than It should cause the hardware sales to surpass the competition. But lets say a console has the highest quality game ever but the rest of Its library Is garbage, Is that game going to cause sales to explode? Not likely since most people dont buy a console for a single game. Now lets say another console doesnt have the best game ever but It has over 500 really good games, will this console sell extremely well? Most likely because again people buy a console for Its library and not one single game In most cases.

All im trying to say is that u cant jump to conclusions and say a game is of higher quality than another based solely on sales, yes quality is a strong factor but there are many others that go along with why or why not a game sells well.



When the herd loses its way, the shepard must kill the bull that leads them astray.

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zorg1000 said:
fatslob-:O said:
zorg1000 said:

So if sales=quality does that also mean quality=sales? What if a game/movie/book/CD is 100% liked by everyone who played/watched/read/listened to it but still didnt sell extremely well do to lack of advertising and public awareness? Would that make it a non quality product because it didnt sell well?

The lack of advertising is one thing but if the product like minecraft was able to sell so well without any spending on marketing then it just goes to show you that market demand is the determinant factor.

lets say a publisher spends $1 billion dollars on advertising a specific game, making sure there is a TV spot on every channel at least once per hour, has an ad in every major magazine, pays reviewers to give perfect scores, has the most popular celebrities hype it up and has promos at every major sporting event which causes the public awareness of the game to be through the roof. The game sells 10 million units week one but most those people realize they hate the game and sell it before they even finish it. The game sells zero untis from that point forward and is so hated that the game never gets any sequels and the publisher goes bankrupt from spending so much money on advertising.

Your example is more than ridiculous ... Like said before "Customers are not perfect either." but they really aren't that stupid to let that situation happen. Marketing and hype can only go so far to distort sales but overall customers will still determine the quality. BF4 sold less than BF3 despite having more marketing push. Hype and Marketing can not create market demand.

Compare that to a game with little to no advertising with a very small amount of people who even know the game exists. The game sells 100k in the first month and almost everybody who plays it loves it. Through word of mouth the game becomes more popular and sales begin to increase, over the course of a year it goes on to sell 3 million units and the company makes a ton of money allowing them to make multiple sequels. Which one of the these games would be considered a more quality product?

That obviously is a decent quality product seeing as how it has meaningful legs to be able to pull off decent long term sales but your last example is mostly null and void.

Or another example a game releases with a price tag of $1 and sells 30 million compare that to a game that costs $60 and sells 25 million. The $1 game costs 1/60 the price but barely outsells the other. Is it a more quality product just because it was able to sell more?

This is the console space ... It's obvious that the $60 game is of better quality but profits/revenue are also another measure to quality too but so are customers. 




Ok so this makes it seem like ur saying sales and quality do not equal the same thing but they do for the most part have a strong correlation which I agree with. An absolutely shitty game will not sell 10s of millions and its also possible for a high quality game to be a sleeper hit and not sell well. Sales=/=quality but they do go hand in hand many times.

Ur previous posts about this subject seem like ur trying to say if a game sells better than another game then it is automatically a higher quality game which is not true all the time. Advertising is a big part of sales as is genre. Certain genres simply dont appeal to as many people as others. A platformer like Mario has wide appeal to kids, parents, men, women, basically every demographic can enjoy Mario. They are easy to pick up and play and are family friendly. On the other hand Survival-Horror games have a smaller window to sell to, not because platformers are of higher quality but because most kids wont be allowed to play them, many times they are more difficult which makes novice gamers less likely to play them and if ur a scaredy cat, dont enjoy violence, gore disgusts u then ur not likely to play these types of games.

Install base can also have a major role whether or not a game sells well. Ur right when u say the point of a game Is to sell the hardware so In theory If a game Is the highest quality game ever than It should cause the hardware sales to surpass the competition. But lets say a console has the highest quality game ever but the rest of Its library Is garbage, Is that game going to cause sales to explode? Not likely since most people dont buy a console for a single game. Now lets say another console doesnt have the best game ever but It has over 500 really good games, will this console sell extremely well? Most likely because again people buy a console for Its library and not one single game In most cases.

All im trying to say is that u cant jump to conclusions and say a game is of higher quality than another based solely on sales, yes quality is a strong factor but there are many others that go along with why or why not a game sells well.

Where exactly does it seem like I'm saying sales =/= quality ?

 

For the most part sales and quality practically go hand in hand alot of times and this especially applies to the console space where every AAA game is exactly $60. Sure the type of genre may influence some game sales but has it ever occured to you that those specific genres have a higher quality output ? JRPGs have become low quality and customers are responding by not buying.

 

Quality is all dependent on customer demands ... You'd be surprised but people will actually buy a console for one game. Many customers that bought an xbox 360 bought halo with it! One game is capable of changing the tides. What made the WII not flatline in the first year was WII sports ... in any case both of tue consoles would do good but the later may have an edge unless the former had something phenominal like minecraft with a AAA budget.

 

Well sales is the best measure to it. What else is there to guage quality ?



fatslob-:O said:
zorg1000 said:
fatslob-:O said:
zorg1000 said:

 

 

Well sales is the best measure to it. What else is there to guage quality ?

Unless talking about a technical standpoint, there is no way to guage quality. Quality is simply an opinion, I feel that Metroid Prime is of much higher quality than Call of Duty, obviously many people feel differently but just because a certain opinion is more shared than another doesnt make it fact.

If the color red is more popular than blue does that make it a higher quality color and people who prefer blue are wrong?



When the herd loses its way, the shepard must kill the bull that leads them astray.

Doesn't really matter, the Gamecube and the original Xbox were capable of beating the crap out of the PS2 in terms of graphics and power plus the Wii even though it was rarely if ever used to full potential couldn't do what the PS3 and 360 could do. It isn't power that is truely hindering the Wii U outside of a few higher profile bloated budget seeking crazed developers, Nintendo just screwed the pooch in terms of how they presented their hardware to the public and the industry, combined with built in flaws... much like the Gamecube we are probably looking at a platform that will have a lot of untapped potential.



Good artwork goes a long way in game design.



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Too many excuses in this thread for wii u performance. We have already seen that the vast majority of multi-format games perform worse on wii u than 360 and PS3. The hardware is based on a power hungry low cost fabrication process yet takes very little power. The memory chips have less bandwidth than 360 or PS3. Cartoon graphics do not need the resources of realistic graphics or have such high CPU demands for physics etc.

The idea that a console based on an established cpu architecture and low end gpu has untapped potential is just fanboy nonsense. Apart from a few extended gpu features there is not much the wii u has over last gen.

I've compared my wii u to ps3 and 360 performance and its sadly lacking. This is another mindless thread that tries to compare the wii u to ps4 and xbox one but the reality is the wii u is still struggling to match 360 and PS3 performance most of the time.

The time for pretending the wii u is powerful is over. The 360and PS3 have if anything more claim to be next gen consoles than wii u.

The wii u will not be getting versions of most next gen multiformat games. Both PS3 and 360 will be getting a lot more and for those few wii u games that are developed they will almost definitely perform better on 360 and PS3 so this wii u is powerful talk is pointless.

The wii u is only worth having for nintendo games and other wii u exclusives. I've not seen a single wii u game that couldn't be done on ps3 or 360 and in some ways could probably be improved on those consoles. Fanboys claimed Rayman Legends would only be 1080p 60fps on wii u but of course being a simple 2D platformer meant both 360 and PS3 were also 1080p 60fps of equal quality. Fanboys claimed at the beginning the wii u would be much better in a years time when most of the launch games weren't impressive. Of course a year on and the wii u games are still performing below 360 and PS3 most of the time. This fanboy nonsense should stop.

About 80-90% of the time the wii u performs below 360 levels and yet people still post comments that the wii u is competitive with ps4 or xbox one. Utter madness.



Samus Aran said:

I think Bayo 2 looks great. Better than quite a few PS4 games out now.

X however looks great in the environments, but the monsters in the new trailer kinda looked bad, especially up close. Might still change though.


The actual streaming quality of the direct was pretty bad. Just saying.



zorg1000 said:
fatslob-:O said:
zorg1000 said:
fatslob-:O said:
zorg1000 said:

 

 

Well sales is the best measure to it. What else is there to guage quality ?

Unless talking about a technical standpoint, there is no way to guage quality. Quality is simply an opinion, I feel that Metroid Prime is of much higher quality than Call of Duty, obviously many people feel differently but just because a certain opinion is more shared than another doesnt make it fact.

If the color red is more popular than blue does that make it a higher quality color and people who prefer blue are wrong?

Then the term "quality" once again becomes undefined ...



bonzobanana said:
Too many excuses in this thread for wii u performance. We have already seen that the vast majority of multi-format games perform worse on wii u than 360 and PS3. The hardware is based on a power hungry low cost fabrication process yet takes very little power. The memory chips have less bandwidth than 360 or PS3. Cartoon graphics do not need the resources of realistic graphics or have such high CPU demands for physics etc.

The idea that a console based on an established cpu architecture and low end gpu has untapped potential is just fanboy nonsense. Apart from a few extended gpu features there is not much the wii u has over last gen.

I've compared my wii u to ps3 and 360 performance and its sadly lacking. This is another mindless thread that tries to compare the wii u to ps4 and xbox one but the reality is the wii u is still struggling to match 360 and PS3 performance most of the time.

The time for pretending the wii u is powerful is over. The 360and PS3 have if anything more claim to be next gen consoles than wii u.

The wii u will not be getting versions of most next gen multiformat games. Both PS3 and 360 will be getting a lot more and for those few wii u games that are developed they will almost definitely perform better on 360 and PS3 so this wii u is powerful talk is pointless.

The wii u is only worth having for nintendo games and other wii u exclusives. I've not seen a single wii u game that couldn't be done on ps3 or 360 and in some ways could probably be improved on those consoles. Fanboys claimed Rayman Legends would only be 1080p 60fps on wii u but of course being a simple 2D platformer meant both 360 and PS3 were also 1080p 60fps of equal quality. Fanboys claimed at the beginning the wii u would be much better in a years time when most of the launch games weren't impressive. Of course a year on and the wii u games are still performing below 360 and PS3 most of the time. This fanboy nonsense should stop.

About 80-90% of the time the wii u performs below 360 levels and yet people still post comments that the wii u is competitive with ps4 or xbox one. Utter madness.

Name specific examples of games that run worse on WiiU than their 360/ps3 version.

I for one haven't encountered any serious problems  if anything, wii u games are sharper w. better framerate.





I predict NX launches in 2017 - not 2016

bonzobanana said:
Too many excuses in this thread for wii u performance. We have already seen that the vast majority of multi-format games perform worse on wii u than 360 and PS3. The hardware is based on a power hungry low cost fabrication process yet takes very little power. The memory chips have less bandwidth than 360 or PS3. Cartoon graphics do not need the resources of realistic graphics or have such high CPU demands for physics etc.

The idea that a console based on an established cpu architecture and low end gpu has untapped potential is just fanboy nonsense. Apart from a few extended gpu features there is not much the wii u has over last gen.

I've compared my wii u to ps3 and 360 performance and its sadly lacking. This is another mindless thread that tries to compare the wii u to ps4 and xbox one but the reality is the wii u is still struggling to match 360 and PS3 performance most of the time.

The time for pretending the wii u is powerful is over. The 360and PS3 have if anything more claim to be next gen consoles than wii u.

The wii u will not be getting versions of most next gen multiformat games. Both PS3 and 360 will be getting a lot more and for those few wii u games that are developed they will almost definitely perform better on 360 and PS3 so this wii u is powerful talk is pointless.

The wii u is only worth having for nintendo games and other wii u exclusives. I've not seen a single wii u game that couldn't be done on ps3 or 360 and in some ways could probably be improved on those consoles. Fanboys claimed Rayman Legends would only be 1080p 60fps on wii u but of course being a simple 2D platformer meant both 360 and PS3 were also 1080p 60fps of equal quality. Fanboys claimed at the beginning the wii u would be much better in a years time when most of the launch games weren't impressive. Of course a year on and the wii u games are still performing below 360 and PS3 most of the time. This fanboy nonsense should stop.

About 80-90% of the time the wii u performs below 360 levels and yet people still post comments that the wii u is competitive with ps4 or xbox one. Utter madness.


Indeed, I used to be in the hidden power camp as well. That all changed with

  • Nintendos own exclusives being stuck at 720p despite claims of 1080p (Started with NSMBU, Tropical Freeze was the last straw)
  • Multiplatforms performing same or worse than the 7th gen, no higher res or framerate to boot (even with poor optimisation strong hardware would just brute force it)
  • Multiplatform games that are better only being so to a negligible degree (Runner 2, Trine 2 Wii U vs Tine 2 PS4)
  • Owning one for myself


I predict that the Wii U will sell a total of 18 million units in its lifetime. 

The NX will be a 900p machine