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Forums - Gaming - Sony: Nintendo's decline "could be detrimental to the market"

There's no "could be" about it, it IS detrimental for the business. 3DS might sell 100 million units eventually (though that could be a high ball estimate), but that's still more than 50 million units less than DS did. Wii U will struggle to 20 million units, a decline of 80 million units from one generation to another. Of course that's detrimental to the business. Even with PS4 off to a very strong start, Sony won't be able to match PS3 AND make up for the loss of unit sales that a weaker Nintendo brings, especially not with Vita's poor performance. We're looking at 130 million fewer Nintendo units sold, and tens of millions fewer units of Sony portables sold. That is bad for the business, no ifs, but or "could be".

Weaker Nintendo is an opportunity for Sony, though. In the long-term a cheap PS4, with the right software (think Singstar/EyeToy/Guitar Hero as late PS2 games) could gobble up the family market and allow Sony to move millions more consoles. Nintendo haven't been able to undercut Sony and hit the family market in Japan, Europe and North America from day one the way they did with Wii, and the main beneficiary of that in Europe and Japan will be Sony.



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Kane1389 said:
marley said:
Kane1389 said:
marley said:


Lumping together weekly sales of three supported consoles against two to make a point - seems like a fair comparison.  Regardless, taking longer to eventually sell less consoles than your competitor, is a funny thing to call an 'annihilation'.  Nintendo is quite  a bit ahead in hardware sales, software sales, and profit.  The only metric in which Sony is winning is the weekly sales of PS4 v. WiiU.  If that's enough for you to declare 'annihilation' then so be it, but it's a pretty shortsighted conclusion.

 

Besides, the article is not singling out the UK market, so I'm not sure why you are.  In fact, it references things as 'the wider gaming industry' and 'the entire gaming market'.  Did you just need an excuse to make a snide comment?

 


Uhh..how are they ahead of hardware sales? I'll give you software sales, since Sony was always more of a hardware company, as for profits, thats only been the case during the 7th gen, and doesnt look to be the case in this one (mind you, im talking about Sony as whole, not SCE only)

'Annihilation' is happening right now - you can try and spin it by adding Nintendo sales since 1983 to make them look better, but the matter of fact is, Nintendo has been never doing worse than they are today, both sales and profit wise. In fact, if you disregard the Wii and the DS, you'll see ALL of NIntendo hardware and software being in decline since the NES. But all that is actually irrelevant, as I was making point about today's situation only.

''The only metric in which Sony is winning is the weekly sales of PS4 v. WiiU''    ...and PS4 vs 3DS, and PS3 vs Wii+WiiU, and PS4 vs anyone else...in fact, the only metric in which they arent winning is Vita.


They are ahead in total hardware sales because you mentioned all of the consoles of last gen (they are currently ahead in this generation as well).  It doesn't matter if Sony is selling more THIS week, because at the end they will still have sold less overall.  The only console that they will sell more of is between the PS4 and WiiU.  The PS4 will not likely outsell the 3DS.  The PS3 will not outsell the Wii (even though it's on the market much longer).  In fact, why do you even mention the PS3?  They are taking LONGER, to sell LESS consoles, and at LESS profit.  That's a pretty silly way to back up your 'annihilation' argument. 

As a whole, Sony is doing terrible.  Their stock just got downgraded to junk status and they are selling off major assets to stay afloat.  They're in bad shape (much worse than Nintendo).  As a division, SCE is almost always outperformed by Nintendo in profit.  Another area where they are not 'annihilating' anyone. 

Nobody added Nintendo sales since 1983.  I'm not sure where you even got that garbage.  I added up the consoles that YOU were comparing (304.1m vs 175.31m).  I didn't bring them up, you did.  Sony has a lot of catching up to do, regardless of how this week is going.  Winning a fight but losing the war. 

I never claimed that Nintendo isn't doing worse today, or that they aren't underperforming - they are.  However, looking at the big picture (bigger than 1 week of sales), I fail to see where this 'annihilation' is happening.  In fact it seems quite the opposite of what you're claiming.  If you'd like to disregard how badly Sony was outsold all of last generation, then don't bring up last gen consoles to prove your point.    Statisically on a weekly basis the PS4=3DS and Vita=WiiU - which is not an 'annihilation'. 

 

"In fact, if you disregard the Wii and the DS, you'll see ALL of NIntendo hardware and software being in decline since the NES"  -  Why are we disregarding the Wii and DS?  Because it fits your agenda?  Because it was only a 'fluke'?  I mean, if you disregard PS2, you'll see Sony has been in a steady decline since PSX.  What does that prove exactly?  Nothing, that's what.



Sony is right for at least two reasons:
1) Only Ninty can properly make Ninty games, without it, its know-how, and the market it generates, would be lost, without anybody to gain from it, it would be a huge net loss for gaming.
2) MS is a mighty competitor, if it could compete with just one strong console maker, it could easily crush it and become a near-monopolist, but competing with two strong ones it cannot do it. Three big players bring a not perfect but acceptable balance to the market, and even the smallest one can thrive, if it's carefully managed.



Stwike him, Centuwion. Stwike him vewy wuffly! (Pontius Pilate, "Life of Brian")
A fart without stink is like a sky without stars.
TGS, Third Grade Shooter: brand new genre invented by Kevin Butler exclusively for Natal WiiToo Kinect. PEW! PEW-PEW-PEW! 
 


Sony is right, they knew full well that a lot of their Playstation audience begins gaming on Nintendo handhelds and/or consoles.

I've met so many Call of Duty fanatics who cite GoldenEye as the game that got them into FPS shooters for example, so even in that genre.



marley said:
Kane1389 said:
marley said:
Kane1389 said:
marley said:


Lumping together weekly sales of three supported consoles against two to make a point - seems like a fair comparison.  Regardless, taking longer to eventually sell less consoles than your competitor, is a funny thing to call an 'annihilation'.  Nintendo is quite  a bit ahead in hardware sales, software sales, and profit.  The only metric in which Sony is winning is the weekly sales of PS4 v. WiiU.  If that's enough for you to declare 'annihilation' then so be it, but it's a pretty shortsighted conclusion.

 

Besides, the article is not singling out the UK market, so I'm not sure why you are.  In fact, it references things as 'the wider gaming industry' and 'the entire gaming market'.  Did you just need an excuse to make a snide comment?

 


Uhh..how are they ahead of hardware sales? I'll give you software sales, since Sony was always more of a hardware company, as for profits, thats only been the case during the 7th gen, and doesnt look to be the case in this one (mind you, im talking about Sony as whole, not SCE only)

'Annihilation' is happening right now - you can try and spin it by adding Nintendo sales since 1983 to make them look better, but the matter of fact is, Nintendo has been never doing worse than they are today, both sales and profit wise. In fact, if you disregard the Wii and the DS, you'll see ALL of NIntendo hardware and software being in decline since the NES. But all that is actually irrelevant, as I was making point about today's situation only.

''The only metric in which Sony is winning is the weekly sales of PS4 v. WiiU''    ...and PS4 vs 3DS, and PS3 vs Wii+WiiU, and PS4 vs anyone else...in fact, the only metric in which they arent winning is Vita.


They are ahead in total hardware sales because you mentioned all of the consoles of last gen (they are currently ahead in this generation as well).  It doesn't matter if Sony is selling more THIS week, because at the end they will still have sold less overall.  The only console that they will sell more of is between the PS4 and WiiU.  The PS4 will not likely outsell the 3DS.  The PS3 will not outsell the Wii (even though it's on the market much longer).  In fact, why do you even mention the PS3?  They are taking LONGER, to sell LESS consoles, and at LESS profit.  That's a pretty silly way to back up your 'annihilation' argument. 

Sweet mother of fuck, you are desperate for spinning. The original post quoted said ''dominating'' as in PRESENT PROGRESSIVE, meaning something that is happening right now. Im sure you learned about it in 5th grade, hence why I included the weekly sales that we are seeing right now and have been seeing since 2012. You are just reaching so hard and try to include LTD sales of 7th gen systems. I guess the word dominat(ING) hit really close home, did it?

PS4 is tracking way above 3DS and is already outselling it on weekly basis, despite being more expensive, having less (no) systemsellers yet and WITHOUT JAPAN. There is absolutely nothing to indicate that PS4 wont outsell 3DS. As for PS3 outselling the Wii, again, I was talking about weekly basis, and there is still a chance for it to outsell it LTD. PS3 still didnt fall below 199$ and still wasnt released in developing countries at reasonable price like PS2 did. With this strategy, PS2 went on to sell 40+ million in 7th gen, PS3 will be able to do half of that I think. And how are they selling (notice the ''ing'' at the end) when PS3 is outselling Wii almost 4 to 1 on weekly basis? They are taking longer to sell, but that comes when you launch your system with 599$ price tag. And given how Wii is not even selling in most of the world anymore, I fail to see how its making more profit than the 249$ PS3.

As a whole, Sony is doing terrible.  Their stock just got downgraded to junk status and they are selling off major assets to stay afloat.  They're in bad shape (much worse than Nintendo).  As a division, SCE is almost always outperformed by Nintendo in profit.  Another area where they are not 'annihilating' anyone. 

Oh, so now are we back to present progressive? You've gotta make up your mind man, I know you are trying hard to spin this stuff to ''defend'' your favorite toy company, but you've gotta set the line, and not spin and cherry pick whenever it fits your incredibly weak argument. And Sony 's satus has been upgraded to Buy btw.

Nobody added Nintendo sales since 1983.  I'm not sure where you even got that garbage.  I added up the consoles that YOU were comparing (304.1m vs 175.31m).  I didn't bring them up, you did.  Sony has a lot of catching up to do, regardless of how this week is going.  Winning a fight but losing the war. 

Again, original quoted post, learn english grammer rules,  weekly sales, stop spinning, 

I never claimed that Nintendo isn't doing worse today, or that they aren't underperforming - they are.  However, looking at the big picture (bigger than 1 week of sales), I fail to see where this 'annihilation' is happening.  In fact it seems quite the opposite of what you're claiming.  If you'd like to disregard how badly Sony was outsold all of last generation, then don't bring up last gen consoles to prove your point.    Statisically on a weekly basis the PS4=3DS and Vita=WiiU - which is not an 'annihilation'. 

Statistically, on weekly basis, PlayStaion > Nintendo, and this has been going on since PS4 launched, and the gap is only gonna get bigger with PS4 overtaking 3DS in weekly sales. And just to satisfy you, even without including last gen conoles, its still PS4&Vita >>> 3DS&WiiU and PS4 isnt even launched in Japan. Nintendo is in for an ass whooping, thats for sure

"In fact, if you disregard the Wii and the DS, you'll see ALL of NIntendo hardware and software being in decline since the NES"  -  Why are we disregarding the Wii and DS?  Because it fits your agenda?  Because it was only a 'fluke'?  I mean, if you disregard PS2, you'll see Sony has been in a steady decline since PSX.  What does that prove exactly?  Nothing, that's what.

I had no agenda there, I was making a point. Unless they hit a casual hot button, they are likely to end up dead last and decline further in hardware sales department, as we are seeing happening in this gen. And PS4 is actually tracking above PS2, btw, whereas WiiU is barely keeping above Dreamcast





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Kane1389 said:
marley said:
Kane1389 said:
marley said:
Kane1389 said:
marley said:


Lumping together weekly sales of three supported consoles against two to make a point - seems like a fair comparison.  Regardless, taking longer to eventually sell less consoles than your competitor, is a funny thing to call an 'annihilation'.  Nintendo is quite  a bit ahead in hardware sales, software sales, and profit.  The only metric in which Sony is winning is the weekly sales of PS4 v. WiiU.  If that's enough for you to declare 'annihilation' then so be it, but it's a pretty shortsighted conclusion.

 

Besides, the article is not singling out the UK market, so I'm not sure why you are.  In fact, it references things as 'the wider gaming industry' and 'the entire gaming market'.  Did you just need an excuse to make a snide comment?

 


Uhh..how are they ahead of hardware sales? I'll give you software sales, since Sony was always more of a hardware company, as for profits, thats only been the case during the 7th gen, and doesnt look to be the case in this one (mind you, im talking about Sony as whole, not SCE only)

'Annihilation' is happening right now - you can try and spin it by adding Nintendo sales since 1983 to make them look better, but the matter of fact is, Nintendo has been never doing worse than they are today, both sales and profit wise. In fact, if you disregard the Wii and the DS, you'll see ALL of NIntendo hardware and software being in decline since the NES. But all that is actually irrelevant, as I was making point about today's situation only.

''The only metric in which Sony is winning is the weekly sales of PS4 v. WiiU''    ...and PS4 vs 3DS, and PS3 vs Wii+WiiU, and PS4 vs anyone else...in fact, the only metric in which they arent winning is Vita.


They are ahead in total hardware sales because you mentioned all of the consoles of last gen (they are currently ahead in this generation as well).  It doesn't matter if Sony is selling more THIS week, because at the end they will still have sold less overall.  The only console that they will sell more of is between the PS4 and WiiU.  The PS4 will not likely outsell the 3DS.  The PS3 will not outsell the Wii (even though it's on the market much longer).  In fact, why do you even mention the PS3?  They are taking LONGER, to sell LESS consoles, and at LESS profit.  That's a pretty silly way to back up your 'annihilation' argument. 

Sweet mother of fuck, you are desperate for spinning. The original post quoted said ''dominating'' as in PRESENT PROGRESSIVE, meaning something that is happening right now. Im sure you learned about it in 5th grade, hence why I included the weekly sales that we are seeing right now and have been seeing since 2012. You are just reaching so hard and try to include LTD sales of 7th gen systems. I guess the word dominat(ING) hit really close home, did it?

PS4 is tracking way above 3DS and is already outselling it on weekly basis, despite being more expensive, having less (no) systemsellers yet and WITHOUT JAPAN. There is absolutely nothing to indicate that PS4 wont outsell 3DS. As for PS3 outselling the Wii, again, I was talking about weekly basis, and there is still a chance for it to outsell it LTD. PS3 still didnt fall below 199$ and still wasnt released in developing countries at reasonable price like PS2 did. With this strategy, PS2 went on to sell 40+ million in 7th gen, PS3 will be able to do half of that I think. And how are they selling (notice the ''ing'' at the end) when PS3 is outselling Wii almost 4 to 1 on weekly basis? They are taking longer to sell, but that comes when you launch your system with 599$ price tag. And given how Wii is not even selling in most of the world anymore, I fail to see how its making more profit than the 249$ PS3.

As a whole, Sony is doing terrible.  Their stock just got downgraded to junk status and they are selling off major assets to stay afloat.  They're in bad shape (much worse than Nintendo).  As a division, SCE is almost always outperformed by Nintendo in profit.  Another area where they are not 'annihilating' anyone. 

Oh, so now are we back to present progressive? You've gotta make up your mind man, I know you are trying hard to spin this stuff to ''defend'' your favorite toy company, but you've gotta set the line, and not spin and cherry pick whenever it fits your incredibly weak argument. And Sony 's satus has been upgraded to Buy btw.

Nobody added Nintendo sales since 1983.  I'm not sure where you even got that garbage.  I added up the consoles that YOU were comparing (304.1m vs 175.31m).  I didn't bring them up, you did.  Sony has a lot of catching up to do, regardless of how this week is going.  Winning a fight but losing the war. 

Again, original quoted post, learn english grammer rules,  weekly sales, stop spinning, 

I never claimed that Nintendo isn't doing worse today, or that they aren't underperforming - they are.  However, looking at the big picture (bigger than 1 week of sales), I fail to see where this 'annihilation' is happening.  In fact it seems quite the opposite of what you're claiming.  If you'd like to disregard how badly Sony was outsold all of last generation, then don't bring up last gen consoles to prove your point.    Statisically on a weekly basis the PS4=3DS and Vita=WiiU - which is not an 'annihilation'. 

Statistically, on weekly basis, PlayStaion > Nintendo, and this has been going on since PS4 launched, and the gap is only gonna get bigger with PS4 overtaking 3DS in weekly sales. And just to satisfy you, even without including last gen conoles, its still PS4&Vita >>> 3DS&WiiU and PS4 isnt even launched in Japan. Nintendo is in for an ass whooping, thats for sure

"In fact, if you disregard the Wii and the DS, you'll see ALL of NIntendo hardware and software being in decline since the NES"  -  Why are we disregarding the Wii and DS?  Because it fits your agenda?  Because it was only a 'fluke'?  I mean, if you disregard PS2, you'll see Sony has been in a steady decline since PSX.  What does that prove exactly?  Nothing, that's what.

I had no agenda there, I was making a point. Unless they hit a casual hot button, they are likely to end up dead last and decline further in hardware sales department, as we are seeing happening in this gen. And PS4 is actually tracking above PS2, btw, whereas WiiU is barely keeping above Dreamcast



Just wow.  Saying that 'Sony is annihilating Nintendo' can easily refer to 1 week of sales, 1 month of sales, 1 year of sales, 1 decade of sales, total sales, etc.  Claiming it can only work as present progressive (meaning only 1 week of sales count) is pure nonsense.  I wasn't desperately reaching for 7th gen sales.  I didn't even bring them up - YOU did.  Does that make you desperate?  I'm not 'spinning' anything, nor am I 'defending' anyone.  I fully agree that Nintendo is not performing well.  They have been underperforming since well before the PS4 released.  That in itself completely revokes your 'Sony is annihilating Nintendo' claim.  If anything, Nintendo is annihilating Nintendo. 

Statistically (in weekly sales) the PS4=3ds and Vita=WiiU.  For an 'annihilation' to be occuring, Sony would need to completely destroy Nintendo in sales.  That is simply not happening.  A weekly sales difference of 188,218 v 176,447 is a ridiculus thing to call an annihilation.  In fact, the difference is statistically insignificant - it's below the margin of error and could be completely reversed with revisions.  I agree that the difference will be larger when PS4 launches in Japan; but are we talking about the present or the future?  Including last gen's weekly sales to make Sony look good, while ignoring just how vastly outsold they were, is most certainly cherrypicking.      

The PS3 is still selling well, but for how long?  It's not the PS2 and it never will be.  There is no reason to even make the comparison.  It's down significantly year-on-year and it's sales are likely to continue their slide.  I'm not aware of any major software planned for it that will significantly move consoles.  If the PS3 is able to keep it's current sales rate 67K (unlikely), it would still take well over 5 years (almost 6) just to catch up.  I might be wrong (wouln't be the first time), but I just don't see that happening.  The PS4 is tracking really well (and will undoubtedly sell a lot of consoles), but you can't come to conclusions based on a couple months of sales (especially post launch).  The only conclusion we can really come to is that it will be a successful console.  I'm not sure who you saw that upgraded Sony's stock, but I can't find anyone that has (not suprising considering their last projection). 

It's true that I like Nintendo, but I also like Sony.  It's not as if I have to choose only one.  I will likely own both 8th gen console, just like I owned both 7th and 6th gen consoles (I have no dislike for xbox, but my funds won't support 3 consoles).  My only goal was to point out just how off your 'Sony is annihilating Nintendo on every level' comment was.  You may love Sony and you should be excited for their successes (ps4), but that statement was/is most certainly false.  I'm not sure your intentions, but you seem almost fanatical.



supernihilist said:
MessiaH said:
supernihilist said:
LOL Sony talking about the decline of others is really funny when they are on the verge of closing half of they bussineses.
Anyway. Theres no decline for Nintendo. Is a decline from Wii popularity nothing else. Nintendo is actually stronger than ever was.

Although I do think Nintendo is currently struggling and not in the strongest position, I just wanted to give you a shout out cause of your avatar. I grew up listening to Nirvana and Alice in Chains amongst other great bands of that era, so  WHATTAAAP!

oh man, mee too, and that was so long time ago wasnt it?

cant believe that much time has passed and now those are the new classics.

remember this Simpsons episode?

Oh man, no doubt! It's crazy to me that the grunge scene is considered classic these days! Kids look back at the 90s the way I used to look back at the 70s. And I ask all these people in their late teens and early 20's if they recognize names like Pearl Jam, Nirvana, Alice in Chains, Metallica - and I get an all round "NO". It's so shocking to me! I mean, i still feel young, but...but...am I old?! hahaha!