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Forums - General Discussion - So George Zimmerman shot a boy who's not old enough to drink, 2 times in the back, and 1 to 6 times in the balls (like Robocop) in self defense?

nitekrawler1285 said:
shio said:
nitekrawler1285 said:

 Zimmerman started the altercation by stalking him.   A frightened or violent response would be a normal thing in that context.  He also decided to ignore the advice from the authority figures he called when he dialed 911.  I really wish people whom disobeyed the law and authorities weren't allowed to carry guns.  As the legal aged adult I feel that he did far enough even before the last part of the altercation that blame should land squarely on his shoulders.  

Zimmerman didn't disobey the law, he wasn't required to follow the advice of the dispatcher (and he didn't call 911, he called a non-emergency line).

Simply stalking shouldn't be deserving of getting beaten, especially if there wasn't a percieved threat of injury. Trayvon didn't seem to think there was a big threat, since he didn't run away (which he easily could have), or called 911 (which he easily could have), but instead the testemonies in court suggest that Trayvon actually initiated the confronting talk between both of them (supported by both Zimmerman and Trayvon's friend): 

- Zimmerman said that he had lost sight of Trayvon, but then Trayvon jumped out of a bush/tree and started talking to him.
- Trayvon's friend said that she heard on the phone the sound of wet grass (possibly Trayvon ducking and sliding/hitting grass/bushes?) and Trayvon whispering "get off", "get off" (perhaps to tell her to get off the phone call?), and finally hearing Trayvon confront Zimmerman with a question (I don't remember what it was, but I think it was "what are you doing?" or something along the lines)

Then we have a strong witness which claims that Trayvon was on top of Zimmerman, and that Trayvon was pummeling Zimmerman with punches, and not letting Zimmerman get away. All while hearing Zimmerman scream "help".

So taking alternate routes home doesn't count as  trying to get away?  Note  Zimmerman lost him while trailing.  

He may not have been compelled to follow their directive but if he really didn't want to escalate anything there was no reason for him to ever leave the vehicle. He was already aware the authorities were on their way.  He just wanted to escalate the situation.  

Don't go stalking prey you can't beat if you don't want to get overcome.  

Trayvon had plenty of chances to completely speed away from Zimmerman (healthy teen vs a fat man) or call for help. Doesn't matter if he took an alternate route (I didn't know this), he should've just run away at full speed to safety, but it seems that he chose in the end to confront Zimmerman (seems, no one is certain of this).

There was NO cops "on their way". He called a non-emergency line, and there was NO cops requested to the place. The main purpose of calling the non-emergency line is to request advice and let the cops know that there could be suspicious activity. The cops only came after one of the witnesses called 911 during the fight between Trayvon and Zimmerman.

Oh please, things aren't as simple as "he stalked, he must get beaten or die". Zimmerman followed Trayvon because there were recent break-ins in the neighborhood, and he thought Trayvon could be trying to break in(obviously he was wrong). Zimmerman could've simply tried to follow Trayvon, and nothing else, no one knows for certain.

Nothing in the court proved that Zimmerman actually tried to do more than following Trayvon. 

The only thing that's missing is "who threw the first punch?". No one knows who physically started the fight:
- If Zimmerman started the fight, then he deserved a manslaughter charge.
- If Trayvon started the fight, then Zimmerman deserved to defend himself from Trayvon.

But there is no proof of who started the fight, and because of this there is reasonable doubt. Since the court assumes innocent until proven guilty, and there was reasonable doubt, then Zimmerman deserves to be a free man.



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Zimmerman shot Tupac.



Kaizar said:
Mr Puggsly said:
For the record, Trayvon was practically an adult and just shy of 6 feet tall.

He was not a boy.


What if the seventeen year old black male was a blonde white female who was just as strong from doing the same workouts?

Would you still say George Zimmerman shouldn't be charge as Guilty for doing the exact samething in the exact same scenario, that has a strong angry blonde white female instead of a black male, for the murder victim?

If it was a blonde white female, you wouldnt even knew she ever existed. because the media wouldnt give 2 shits about a case like that



Mr Puggsly said:
nitekrawler1285 said:

So taking alternate routes home doesn't count as  trying to get away?  Note  Zimmerman lost him while trailing.  

He may not have been compelled to follow their directive but if he really didn't want to escalate anything there was no reason for him to ever leave the vehicle. He was already aware the authorities were on their way.  He just wanted to escalate the situation.  

Don't go stalking prey you can't beat if you don't want to get overcome.  


Some say he wanted to escalate the the situation. Although... making sure Trayvon didn't get away seems more logical to me considering he bothered to call the police.

If Zimmerman was "stalking prey," he wouldn't have called the police. The best advice from this is don't quickly resort to violence.

Trayvon wasn't 'getting away' from anything except the creepy man stalking him for no apparent reason.  

He already let the police know his location down to address and heading and was told they would meet him at the mailboxes.  Citizens aren't supposed to trail suspects and help along the arrest they put themselves and others in danger. They are to give the relevant information to those whom are empowered to do something about it. People who can't leave it to the police have often been called vigilantes.  

Following someone around doesn't constitute a beating and is not illegal provided there is no restraining order.  Trayvon ran away from him.  It seems strange to me that he would then come back and then start a physical altercation after having already fled.  

After doing a little more reading I think this definitely sums up how I feel about the situation: the encounter between George Zimmerman and Trayvon Martin was ultimately avoidable by Zimmerman, if Zimmerman had remained in his vehicle and waited the arrival of law enforcement or conversely if he had identified himself to Martin as a concerned citizen and initiated dialog in an effort to dispel each party's concern". "There is no indication that Trayvon Martin was involved in any criminal activity at the time of the encounter.

I definitely feel that people whom have been charged with negligent manslaughter should have those gun carrying rights looked at. I don't want people that don't follow the sensible routes of behavior first having guns.  I don't think it's silly to expect more of him given that he is legally an adult and apparently Florida thinks he's okay to carry a gun. I think we can and need to have a higher definition of responsible for those people.  



Kane1389 said:
Kaizar said:
Mr Puggsly said:
For the record, Trayvon was practically an adult and just shy of 6 feet tall.

He was not a boy.


What if the seventeen year old black male was a blonde white female who was just as strong from doing the same workouts?

Would you still say George Zimmerman shouldn't be charge as Guilty for doing the exact samething in the exact same scenario, that has a strong angry blonde white female instead of a black male, for the murder victim?

If it was a blonde white female, you wouldnt even knew she ever existed. because the media wouldnt give 2 shits about a case like that

I think it would have made the news just for shits and giggles.

But if it were a white person that smoked pot and had a history of getting in trouble at school. Not the slightest shit would have been given. In fact, people would have said he deserved it.



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nitekrawler1285 said:
Mr Puggsly said:


Some say he wanted to escalate the the situation. Although... making sure Trayvon didn't get away seems more logical to me considering he bothered to call the police.

If Zimmerman was "stalking prey," he wouldn't have called the police. The best advice from this is don't quickly resort to violence.

Trayvon wasn't 'getting away' from anything except the creepy man stalking him for no apparent reason.  

He already let the police know his location down to address and heading and was told they would meet him at the mailboxes.  Citizens aren't supposed to trail suspects and help along the arrest they put themselves and others in danger. They are to give the relevant information to those whom are empowered to do something about it. People who can't leave it to the police have often been called vigilantes.  

Following someone around doesn't constitute a beating and is not illegal provided there is no restraining order.  Trayvon ran away from him.  It seems strange to me that he would then come back and then start a physical altercation after having already fled.  

After doing a little more reading I think this definitely sums up how I feel about the situation: the encounter between George Zimmerman and Trayvon Martin was ultimately avoidable by Zimmerman, if Zimmerman had remained in his vehicle and waited the arrival of law enforcement or conversely if he had identified himself to Martin as a concerned citizen and initiated dialog in an effort to dispel each party's concern". "There is no indication that Trayvon Martin was involved in any criminal activity at the time of the encounter.

I definitely feel that people whom have been charged with negligent manslaughter should have those gun carrying rights looked at. I don't want people that don't follow the sensible routes of behavior first having guns.  I don't think it's silly to expect more of him given that he is legally an adult and apparently Florida thinks he's okay to carry a gun. I think we can and need to have a higher definition of responsible for those people.  

Trayvon ran away from someone that was suspicious of him. Trayvon running away for no apparent reason obviously raised Zimmerman's suspicion. Hence, it was a misunderstanding by both men.

I don't think being a neighborhood watchman is the same as a vigilante. They apparently reduce crime so what he was doing is arguably a good thing. Following someone that's making themselves even more suspicious is not being a vigilante in my opinion.

We don't know who started the physical altercation. All we know is Zimmerman took a brutal ass beating before he used his gun.

I feel the incident was avoidable by both men.

Given his gun was believed to be used in self defense, why take away his guns? However, I can't imagine he still has guns given his recent issues with the law.



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Mr Puggsly said:
Kaizar said:


Watch at least the first 10 results:

http://m.youtube.com/results?q=bill%20maher%20trayvon%20martin&sm=1

Enjoy.

What do you want me to watch? Bill Maher spewing nonsense?

I lost all repect for him when he got fired for praising the 9/11 terorrists. Bill Maher seems to have respect for those who murder innocent people, maybe Bill Maher owes Zimmerman some praise.

What about Jon Stewart whatever his last name is, because I only remember his first & middle name & John Oliver:

http://m.youtube.com/results?q=jon%20stewart%20daily%20show%20trayvon%20martin&sm=3

http://m.youtube.com/results?q=daily%20show%20trayvon%20martin&sm=3

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=tj3pwV3jOEo

And what about Stephen Colbert, who is one of the few literally 100% white Caucasians left on the planet (almost all other whites on the planet are only up to 98% Caucasian):

http://m.youtube.com/results?q=stephen%20colbert%20trayvon%20martin&sm=1



superchunk said:
Kaizar said:
superchunk said:
1) where the hell did you get your facts on the case?
2) Trayvon was physically and adult... so tired of the little boy description.
3) Trayvon wasn't a great person either.

While zimmerman should have listed to the damn police and stayed away... I'm positive the incident escalated due to two stupid men acting like foolish assholes. Unfortunately for one, he died.

It sounds like Trayvon was follow by only one pair of head lights beaming him around throught the middle of the night, so he decided to walk a different direction away from home, because who's not gonna notice the only beam lights following them all night.

It also sounds like if Trayvon was a young blonde white woman being stalk by a overwieght middle age man in the middle of the night and was suddenly having the creepy middle-age stranger trap her shoulder, then she would have taken one of the only 2 options. Which is either run or fight, and the younger generation is much more wiser, and knows that everyone is a punk bitch, so obviously would choose to fight the creepy middle-age stranger who would have just shot her dead, and be found innocent in the case, like what happened in real life.....just replace the young blonde white female with a young black male.

This is nothing more then 2nd class treatment because the murdered adult wasn't a blonde white female.

Its obvious Zimmerman wouldn't have followed someone who didn't look like a potential thug/theif. Any random woman, he likely wouldn't have followed much at all. But you can't change the facts to an unending set of "what ifs". That's just ignorant.

Fact is you had an ignorant man with a false sense of power witnessed a hooded thug looking-man walking through his neighborhood at night. A place that had seen numerous robberies recently. The ignorant man decided to ignore repeated requests by operators to not interfere and wait for police. The ignorant man then proceeded to confront the person he believed was likely up to no good. The man-looking-thug-dressing 17yr old ignorantly decided to be aggressive back and a fight ensued. If you've seen the pictures of Zimmerman, you know he was getting beat in that fight and very likely and ignorantly both parties saw the gun and likely went for it. Zimmerman happened to get it first. 

Its not a race issue. Making it one is what is ignorant.

Its an issue of stupidity at the highest levels. Its an issue of people not acting like people and instead acting out of fear/anger/rage. Its an issue of men not knowing how to act towards other men without trying to be tough.

Its horrible Trayvon had to die, but the jury made the right decision given the evidence.

There are real race issues in this country. This wasn't one of them.


If Martin was a pale blonde white boy with acne and frickles then he wouldn't have found him suspicious. George said "they are always trying to get away with something"....that's a racial reference to black people by anti-black people, that is always said by those people only.

Goeroge Zimmerman clearly had a racist bias against blacks & Mexicans his whole life, and he never consider himself Hispanic, and said he hates Hispanics, LOL but true.



Kaizar said:

If Martin was a pale blonde white boy with acne and frickles then he wouldn't have found him suspicious. George said "they are always trying to get away with something"....that's a racial reference to black people by anti-black people, that is always said by those people only.

Goeroge Zimmerman clearly had a racist bias against blacks & Mexicans his whole life, and he never consider himself Hispanic, and said he hates Hispanics, LOL but true.


Rest of this thread is bullshit, but this was the last post, so...

To claim that Zimmerman had used racial profiling is to suggest that he would have treated Trayvon Martin as suspicious just for being black. No other factors. Not age, not gender, not clothing, nothing. To claim that he would have stalked a little old black woman, or even a black man of the same age who was wearing, I dunno, upper-middle class college attire seems like a massive stretch.

Here's the thing, most people do make snap judgements about people based on their properties. I'm a tall, white male 22 years old. You know what, if I walked around with a skin head, covered in tattoos, some kind of white vest on, or whatever, people are going to judge me as being dangerous, and with good reason.

The fact that Trayvon was wearing low-riding trousers and a hoodie is just as much of a factor in Zimmerman's judgements than his skin colour. Not to mention that he was walking late at night in the rain, in an area that had recently seen a large number of home invasions. Turns out, he had a somewhat legitimate reason (returning from the store with ingredients to make lean, a type of drug - which has the property of increasing paranoia), but being suspicious of Trayvon in those circumstances is something that most people would be "guilty" of.

Also, let's not forget that Trayvon almost certainly WAS a thief. He was currently living with his dad, after being expelled from school for breaking into lockers and stealing materials. Now, Zimmerman thought the guy was a thief, based on all number of properties and circumstances... and it turns out that he most probably was a thief. Seems to me that Zimmerman did a good job in profiling.



Kaizar said:
Mr Puggsly said:
Kaizar said:


Watch at least the first 10 results:

http://m.youtube.com/results?q=bill%20maher%20trayvon%20martin&sm=1

Enjoy.

What do you want me to watch? Bill Maher spewing nonsense?

I lost all repect for him when he got fired for praising the 9/11 terorrists. Bill Maher seems to have respect for those who murder innocent people, maybe Bill Maher owes Zimmerman some praise.

What about Jon Stewart whatever his last name is, because I only remember his first & middle name & John Oliver:

http://m.youtube.com/results?q=jon%20stewart%20daily%20show%20trayvon%20martin&sm=3

http://m.youtube.com/results?q=daily%20show%20trayvon%20martin&sm=3

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=tj3pwV3jOEo

And what about Stephen Colbert, who is one of the few literally 100% white Caucasians left on the planet (almost all other whites on the planet are only up to 98% Caucasian):

http://m.youtube.com/results?q=stephen%20colbert%20trayvon%20martin&sm=1


Seriously? Its obvious you view liberal opinions as gospel, but they aren't swaying me.

Its amazing how some people have a dead set opinions with no facts to back it up.



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