Forums - Sony Discussion - Persona 4: The Golden Review

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Holy shit, I nearly lost it at that first score. Nearly lost it at the second one, but that's a joke score too, right? RIGHT?



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kupomogli said:
deskpro2k3 said:

I wonder what he would score the ps2 version.

The same.  The changes don't effect how the games play or anything like that.  A little less content won't effect the score either.   The reviews are based on games from all systems, not what's on  the system.

Persona 4 without the Golden content is like...a pizza without cheese.



pokoko said:

I got a lame standard ending.  I don't like looking up things like that before hand and games that basically require you to look stuff up bug me.

Yeah, wealth hands get a lot easier after you get megidolaon but that's kind of late in the game.  They'll still Escape right at the start something, too, especially if they're in a chest.  I HATE when you get about six of them from a chest and four run away before you even get a turn.  Drives me up a wall.


You missed like 2 dungeons as well as many more scenes.

It's kinda messed up how they made the true ending easily missable when it's already a long game, but...next time you should probably just ask around for anything like that :x




kupomogli said:
Nem said:
I think the review you wrote and the final grade dont really go together (i dont mean the 4).

The only criticism i noticed would be more one of taste (the social links). This game is one of the few brilliant jrpg's made post 32 bit era. It definitly deserves grades above 9.

I'm guessing you are trying to be hipster. Maybe applying for a job with the site? Good luck.

Aren't reviews based off ones opinion on the game?  So everything is based on taste.  I hardly criticized social links in the review.  I just made a comment that during those points the games pacing is worse, but I also had a paragraph where I criticized the quest system and the dungeon design.  Maybe I should have been much harsher with how I worded it to make it clear, but seems pretty obvious what I meant.  I don't have to make a big deal about something to get my point across.

"When in the tv world, all dungeons are randomized.  They'll have different backgrounds, different music, and some of the treasure boxes that require keys will rarely give some unique weapons or armor for that area, but the problem with them is that the dungeons all consist of around 10 small floors with each and every dungeon pretty much the exact same randomized layout.  It's basically your average rogue like dungeon without all the unique items scattered around on the floor.  Worse, there are the large amount of quests you receive requiring you to go back through the dungeons to acquire an item from a specific enemy which may be on the first few floors or might be on the last few floors.  Those quests are only available after you first finish the dungeon and while you may have fought the enemy that you get the quest item from, the enemy won't drop that item until the quest is available."

While I didn't say this specifically in the review, as I thought how I wrote it was sufficient, the dungeon design was poor and made being in the tv world extremely boring.

As great as all the story and combat is in the game, and as good as the time management aspect of the game is, the game has issues.  Not going to completely overlook one aspect of the game.  Dungeon design isn't insignificant.  It's a fairly large part of the game and as poor as it, is it's a major issue.  You can ignore it all you want, but it does degrade the game.  As I've said in a previous comment if the game was completely story based and there were no dungeons, sort of like a visual novel, then the game would get a higher score, but it's not.   Deal with it.


I guess my comment offended you. I apologise, I can be a bit too blunt sometimes (It was late and i was posting from my Vita, so its not practical to go into a long dissertation).

My point on the original post is the way you try to blame pacing on the social links is one of taste because anyone going to play a JRPG that doesnt enjoy character development and story and just wants to fight in dungeons... well... is someone that doesnt enjoy JRPG's very much, or just loves grinding. Character development and the social links are what makes Persona special. The pace at wich you go into dungeons can be set by the player aswell.

As for the dungeon design, they are random, but the dungeons art changes with each one. The dungeons are also not long enough that they become a nuisance to go through (have you even played Persona 3? That is alot worse). The ramdomised aspect keep the dungeons unpredictable and every floor exciting as you want to uncover all of it and get the hidden treasure or one of those golden hands that gives alot of experience and gold. Not all floors are ramdomised though. If you were on the habit of properly clearing them, you wouldnt come across issues like a missing key, not that they were difficult to figure out.

Despite all this though, do those 2 small criticisms really stop anyone from enjoying the game? I also get the distinct feel you were trying your best to speed through the game and skip as much content as possible to rush to the end. Are they really worth 2.25 points in a scale of 10? I would hate to see what most games that came out this gen would get from you.

I will grant you my criticism to the game, that in no way would affect the score staying above 9.  A day passes when you go into the dungeons, this interrupts the micro management of the social links max leveling and incentivates you to go into a dungeon as little times as possible and get everything done at once. This is still one of preference though. You can still get the best ending by only maximising 3 social links, if memory serves me right. That isnt too difficult. Thinking about it, maybe the imediacy of the main plot is what made you feel like the social links were ruining your pace.

I will also grant you that the bonus dungeons, wich casts away your progress and uses its own mechanics to navigate, was perhaps a bit cumbersome. But, i wonder if you even experienced that.



I don't understand what problem you have with the dungeons.
Can you explain more?
What I see as negatives so far is:
1. Dungeons have some randomized floors.
2. Some non-random levels have puzzle elements to find keys or solve mazes.

Is that all?

Also, why is design a 5?
I noticed you have:
Gameplay
Design
Story
Balance

Where is presentation?



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theprof00 said:
I don't understand what problem you have with the dungeons.
Can you explain more?
What I see as negatives so far is:
1. Dungeons have some randomized floors.
2. Some non-random levels have puzzle elements to find keys or solve mazes.

Is that all?

Also, why is design a 5?
I noticed you have:
Gameplay
Design
Story
Balance

Where is presentation?

Thanks for that.  I accidentally put story instead of presentation.  Presentation is an accumulation of the story/graphics/audio.  I removed graphics/sound as their own category and they only effect the game if there are so bad that there's an issue.  Meaning maybe a one or two point loss to presentation at most, which this didn't get. 

Again, look at my review scale.  I consider 5.5. average and 6 just above that as the first good category.  The dungeon design, which yes is random, is the exact same in each and every dungeon.  The randomization isn't anything deep either.  It's a small dungeon with a few hallways, the exact same designed room in each dungeon with a treasure and/or monster, the exact same short hallway with two treasures on each side, or hallway end that goes a bit further with a treasure.  Different graphics in each dungeon, different music, but the exact same boring ass dungeon.  The items that are acquired are your generic items with the very rare weapon  that can be acquired through gold chests.  It's poor for even a dungeon crawler.  Rogue like style dungeon but worse with no items scattered around on the ground, so even with a good battle system, these dungeons are just incredibly boring to progress through.  The time I stopped playing Persona 4 The Golden for a long period of time was actually at one of the dungeons because I just didn't want to go through it at the time and awhile ago finally picked it back up.  Going through the dungeons are also about 40% of the game.  Much of that time is during combat, but it's still a main aspect of the game.  A longer period of time if you go back and do the quests which I stopped doing after I did them for the game dungeon.



 

 

 

 

Here is my critique on your review.


One of the main problems I see with this review is that it doesn't really capture what Persona is about. There is effort put into the review, obviously, but it falls short of being something of value to an interested reader, and at some points is actually misleading in regards to the game elements. As I understand it, this review is made for a mainstream gaming perspective, so it tries not to go too much into the details....but casual friendly should not mean casually written.
For one, several details of the game are just wrong, or not very accurate.

There is no actual "time limit", rather, the game works on a calendar system. Each day is split into day and night phases, with your character being allowed to roam freely and choose one "action". You basically have the option to grow one specific statistic each phase. You can level S-Link (your personal connection to other characters), level your character stats such as "courage" and "diligence" by working, reading, or even by eating super spicy noodles. S-Links also have some possibilities to raise character personality stats, and some S-Links aren't available without high-enough personality. You can't hang out with the scary old lady without enough courage.

Additionally, you can walk around and do quests freely, which do not use up the day or night phase, though some require going to the dungeon which will take up the phase. There are also some little bonuses you may discover while playing that help level up stats faster. Stats grow differently depending on day and time, and sometimes even through luck. S-Links can grow faster if you interact more appropriately with the friend, with rating based on how many chimes appear over their head.

Another problem is that dunegeons are not actually completely random, but rather are mixed with random and design. There are at the very least, 2 floors in each dungeon which are not randomized, but created as a puzzle or maze. Playing through a dungeon a second time reveals a different boss, different rewards, a unique boss item, and a series of additional quests perfect for explorers and completionists. However, it's true the dungeons can be a bit repetitive. But it also should be mentioned (which it wasn't in the review) that you can buy items that allow you to run through the dungeons quickly.

And at last, the review just doesn't seem to encapsulate what the persona game is about. While it extolls the mechanics, it really lacks any description of the game. Persona 4 is a story-driven game rooted in the over-arcing murder mystery happening in Inaba, and compounded with inter-personal relationship stories of the characters. Persona would most clearly be described as a psuedo dating-sim mixed with jrpg elements. While the crust of the game really focuses on finishing the story and besting its dungeons, your ability to progress quickly is interesting as it really depends on who YOU, as a player, are. Because each character has their own personality, and their own unique interactions, your own personality will sync up with some characters better than others. You'll share mutual understanding with some, and shake your head at others...This really makes persona such a brilliant concept.



Nem said:

My point on the original post is the way you try to blame pacing on the social links is one of taste because anyone going to play a JRPG that doesnt enjoy character development and story and just wants to fight in dungeons... well... is someone that doesnt enjoy JRPG's very much, or just loves grinding. Character development and the social links are what makes Persona special. The pace at wich you go into dungeons can be set by the player aswell.

As for the dungeon design, they are random, but the dungeons art changes with each one. The dungeons are also not long enough that they become a nuisance to go through (have you even played Persona 3? That is alot worse). The ramdomised aspect keep the dungeons unpredictable and every floor exciting as you want to uncover all of it and get the hidden treasure or one of those golden hands that gives alot of experience and gold. Not all floors are ramdomised though. If you were on the habit of properly clearing them, you wouldnt come across issues like a missing key, not that they were difficult to figure out.

Despite all this though, do those 2 small criticisms really stop anyone from enjoying the game? I also get the distinct feel you were trying your best to speed through the game and skip as much content as possible to rush to the end. Are they really worth 2.25 points in a scale of 10? I would hate to see what most games that came out this gen would get from you.

I made a comment about the games pacing.  I did not say that the social links were a problem or were boring.  I actually pointed out that the that the social links gave you a better understand of each character.  I made one comment about the games pacing in a single sentence in the entire review, and that gets you stuck on social links?  All parts where you had to go through a dungeon and complete it, and other times throughout the year, there were weeks on end that you were going into school, listening to a short lecture, and increasing a social link or social skill.  The whole  question and answer filler story, rarely but sometimes where the story kept up for a few hours on end, sometimes where the story wasn't really that entertaining, and then several weeks where there was no story but lecture after lecture and repeatedly increasing your social stats.  I removed one point on the games presentation.  From a 10 to a 9.  I was going to give it a 10, but I felt, as in my opinion, that it didn't deserve it. 

Dungeons.  Look at my post prior to this one as I've explained it many times.  I explained it in the review as well though I didn't go into a massive amount of detail.  I'm not going to explain it again, you can read it from that post.

Two "small" criticisms.  One small criticism which brought the presentation from a 10 to a 9.  That's 0.25 points.  The other is as I've explained in a previous post, 40% of the game, more if you complete every quest. 

Also, your "assumption" of my trying to speed through the game would be wrong.  The only thing I didn't do at the end of the game is go back to Junes the final day to go through yet another dungeon.  Check out my trophy list if you're interested.  I didn't get all social links maxed because I didn't max Adachi's, but I did the trophy for maxing out 10 social links and all the social skills.  If I want a platinum, everything else I can do on a second run through the game since I'll start with max social skills and not need a guide to make sure I make everyone happy with my answer.

It's a great game, amazing story, and good battle system, but it's not a perfect game.  I don't ignore a major issue the game might have just because everything else is so good.  I didn't with Shin Megami Tensei 4.  I prefer SMT4 over Persona 4, but I didn't give it any special treatment.  I judged the game for what it was and judged it based on its problems.  It's not some review out to taint Persona's name and make Persona fans cry like bitches that the game doesn't get a 10/10. 



kupomogli said:
Nem said:

My point on the original post is the way you try to blame pacing on the social links is one of taste because anyone going to play a JRPG that doesnt enjoy character development and story and just wants to fight in dungeons... well... is someone that doesnt enjoy JRPG's very much, or just loves grinding. Character development and the social links are what makes Persona special. The pace at wich you go into dungeons can be set by the player aswell.

As for the dungeon design, they are random, but the dungeons art changes with each one. The dungeons are also not long enough that they become a nuisance to go through (have you even played Persona 3? That is alot worse). The ramdomised aspect keep the dungeons unpredictable and every floor exciting as you want to uncover all of it and get the hidden treasure or one of those golden hands that gives alot of experience and gold. Not all floors are ramdomised though. If you were on the habit of properly clearing them, you wouldnt come across issues like a missing key, not that they were difficult to figure out.

Despite all this though, do those 2 small criticisms really stop anyone from enjoying the game? I also get the distinct feel you were trying your best to speed through the game and skip as much content as possible to rush to the end. Are they really worth 2.25 points in a scale of 10? I would hate to see what most games that came out this gen would get from you.

I made a comment about the games pacing.  I did not say that the social links were a problem or were boring.  I actually pointed out that the that the social links gave you a better understand of each character.  I made one comment about the games pacing in a single sentence in the entire review, and that gets you stuck on social links?  All parts where you had to go through a dungeon and complete it, and other times throughout the year, there were weeks on end that you were going into school, listening to a short lecture, and increasing a social link or social skill.  The whole  question and answer filler story, rarely but sometimes where the story kept up for a few hours on end, sometimes where the story wasn't really that entertaining, and then several weeks where there was no story but lecture after lecture and repeatedly increasing your social stats.  I removed one point on the games presentation.  From a 10 to a 9.  I was going to give it a 10, but I felt, as in my opinion, that it didn't deserve it. 

Dungeons.  Look at my post prior to this one as I've explained it many times.  I explained it in the review as well though I didn't go into a massive amount of detail.  I'm not going to explain it again, you can read it from that post.

Two "small" criticisms.  One small criticism which brought the presentation from a 10 to a 9.  That's 0.25 points.  The other is as I've explained in a previous post, 40% of the game, more if you complete every quest. 

Also, your "assumption" of my trying to speed through the game would be wrong.  The only thing I didn't do at the end of the game is go back to Junes the final day to go through yet another dungeon.  Check out my trophy list if you're interested.  I didn't get all social links maxed because I didn't max Adachi's, but I did the trophy for maxing out 10 social links and all the social skills.  If I want a platinum, everything else I can do on a second run through the game since I'll start with max social skills and not need a guide to make sure I make everyone happy with my answer.

It's a great game, amazing story, and good battle system, but it's not a perfect game.  I don't ignore a major issue the game might have just because everything else is so good.  I didn't with Shin Megami Tensei 4.  I prefer SMT4 over Persona 4, but I didn't give it any special treatment.  I judged the game for what it was and judged it based on its problems.  It's not some review out to taint Persona's name and make Persona fans cry like bitches that the game doesn't get a 10/10. 


Well, we're just gonna have to agree to disagree. In my opinion, SMT4 is a much worse game.



Also, one last point. I don't understand how the metric for design was given a 5.
You said dungeon was 40% of the game. That would mean you gave the entire combat portion of the game a 0, or, you gave the 60% of the game a 3/10, and the dungeon a 2/10 or some distribution of which.
ie: if the dungeon is half the design, and you gave the design a 5, then you must have given the dungeon an extremely poor score.

EDIT: This is not to say the dungeon is particularly great. It's fair, at best. The combat is entertaining, the bosses are cool, and they fit in with the story and character unlocks. I must say that the dungeon significantly improves the game. While not ideal, the dungeon is a benefit, not a detriment to the game, but the scoring seems to suggest that it is. While you may argue that 0 simply means it didn't earn any points, you can't say that the game would be better without the dungeons....which logically means it must be worth something 

EDIT2: Also, you just arbitrarily decided that dungeons were 40% of the game, and you didn't mention that you can simply run through the dungeons either through items or just running past enemies.

Like, I get that you didn't like the dungeons, but really? Your score suggests that the game would be the same, or possibly even better without them. Really? You would rather just run around and listen to the story and up your character stats? Because you're eliminating the battles, the card system, the persona system, and about 20% of the total quests.

If you give the dungeon portion a 0, you're giving everything that goes with it a 0.

That's like saying that Call of Duty has cool guns, and the mp mechanics are good, and the game types are interesting, but this one map is just so bad, that it makes multiplayer unplayable because you're just too frightened to random that map, and being 50% of the game, the max the design can get is a 5.