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Forums - Gaming - Why Are You Guys Doubting Xbox One Cloud? It Can Surly Push Graphics Above PS4...

I think some fans believe so much in their company of choice that they create stories in their head and force them upon us.



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Logico15 said:
Am I the only one who is starting to dislike toastboy's threads lately?

Starting to?



Sigs are dumb. And so are you!

lol u got me



”The environment where PlayStation wins is best for this industry” (Jack Tretton, 2009)

Faust said:
Why Are You Guys Doubting Xbox One Cloud?

Because nobody has shown what the power of the cloud can offer. Its only natural.

Except both Nvidia and AMD have.  Both have demonstrated what can be done with their cloud-based rendering technologies.



binary solo said:
Adinnieken said:
Figgycal said:
Adinnieken said:
kupomogli said:
Microsoft's power of the cloud is stating that they'll enhance the game itself, not stream the whole game to you. Streaming video content is one thing, streaming uncompressed textures and other stuff is not going to be possible on the cloud.

If streaming video is the power of the cloud then OnLive is better than Xbox One.

Watch Nvidia's video. 

Link please? I don't know what I'm supposed to be looking for.

http://youtu.be/TD_b6t_LnNI

So 200ms (i.e. 0.2 of a second) latency just for doing lighting effects (150ms for lower quality). That's 6 frames at a 30fps frame rate, or 12 frames at 60fps. With that sort of performance the cloud  will only be able to be used for the most passive of visual elements, which won't actually do much to significantly improve the graphics.

But yes they show that it can be done, which means performance can be improved (i.e. reduced latency) eventually to the point that it could be used to significantly improve the visuals of games that are primarily rendered on the local box. However don't be expecting that in 2014 or 2015. But the video also shows that for best cloud processing performance you also need well spec'd local hardware. So the ability for the cloud to enchance Xb one games is still limited by the specs in the Xb one. How does the Xb one's graphics specs compare to the GPUs in the laptop and PC of that video?

And let's not forget that there is nothing magical about the Xbox cloud. Every console with the ability to connect to the internet can use cloud technology to improve aspects of a game. It's just that in the case of non-Xbox consoles the developer or publisher needs to hire a 3rd party cloud service. So MS's secret sauce is that they just make it easier for developers/publishers to utilise the cloud. So by the time the Xbox cloud is technically capable of mindblowing graphics enhancement, the cloud will be so ubiquitous and cheaper to access that it will be feasible for developers to utilise cloud processing on all versions of its games.

Indeed because MS has invested in such a massive cloud infrastructure using today's hardware tech it might be that MS lags behind independant cloud services in upgrading hardware.

 

The technology that both AMD and Nvidia have demonstrated is that rendering of graphic features such as lighting and backgrounds can be rendered, sent back down to the console via a video file, decompiled by the discrete stream engine and put into a form the GPU can use then applied to the visualization the GPU is using.

The benefit, besides off-loading GPU intensive tasks, is that it frees up the GPU to do more work than it normally would be able to handle.

So yes, it does actually improve the graphic fidelity because the local GPU is freed up from doing some of the scene rendering, thus it's free to use that extra capacity to provide greater fidelity.  The majority of work in processing the stream is taken up by the streaming engine (a discrete processor).  This is part of the reason why both the Xbox One and the PS4 include them.  The difference is that the Xbox One has two.  One for compression, the other for decompression.  So while the Xbox One can compress gameplay video for the Game DVR, it can in the same instant, decompress streaming video.

The biggest challenge to cloud computing is network reliability.  Latency is a minor issue compared to network availability and server uptime.

As for governance, that is maintaining server hardware.  No.  Just no.  This argument is completely stupid and doesn't even realistically taken into account how data centers are maintain.  Server hardware is constantly being rotated out, if not on a monthly basis, on an annual basis based on the age of the hardware.  Not to mention, long before the cloud would be used for graphics rendering, both the data center and network availability would be tested to ensure that the experience would be sutible for the consumer. 

And in reality, the biggest issue with a cloud GPU is the capability of the GPUs installed into the server and how many are installed.  Cloud GPUs have multiple high-power GPUs.  They're not a stock standard server.  So, while the CPU isn't necessarily the most powerful CPU, the GPUs would be extremely powerful. 



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FlamingWeazel said:
Machiavellian said:
FlamingWeazel said:

That's mininmal nothing is stopping anyone company from doing that anytime. In fact it's been done, if thats the power of the cloud MS is talking about then Ok I guess.

You are correct, nothing is stopping any company from having their own server running all the time gather info and pushing out content.  The fact that MS give developers this resource for free is the key.  Its something developers can rely on as a resouce they can use that they do not have to pay for. They can also rely on the other services that MS cloud platform delivers without them having to manage that server as well.  For big companies not that big of a deal but still good, for smaller devs, its a big deal because margins can be small so having it free is a big incentive to use it.


Nop devs won;t and cannot use it........it is not worth it and it would fracture the user base, what happens when you play offline?? The cloud is the myth lol.

Why would it facture the user base.  If you are on the X1 and connected it just works, if not then your game plays without it.  Also for games that are MP only like Titanfall and a few others that are coming out, this is not a problem.  Probably the first wave of games will be first party or exclusives as they can target all aspect of the console including cloud compute.



Machiavellian said:
FlamingWeazel said:
Machiavellian said:
FlamingWeazel said:

That's mininmal nothing is stopping anyone company from doing that anytime. In fact it's been done, if thats the power of the cloud MS is talking about then Ok I guess.

You are correct, nothing is stopping any company from having their own server running all the time gather info and pushing out content.  The fact that MS give developers this resource for free is the key.  Its something developers can rely on as a resouce they can use that they do not have to pay for. They can also rely on the other services that MS cloud platform delivers without them having to manage that server as well.  For big companies not that big of a deal but still good, for smaller devs, its a big deal because margins can be small so having it free is a big incentive to use it.


Nop devs won;t and cannot use it........it is not worth it and it would fracture the user base, what happens when you play offline?? The cloud is the myth lol.

Why would it facture the user base.  If you are on the X1 and connected it just works, if not then your game plays without it.  Also for games that are MP only like Titanfall and a few others that are coming out, this is not a problem.  Probably the first wave of games will be first party or exclusives as they can target all aspect of the console including cloud compute.


So your graphics and AI degrade when you disconnect???? LMAO not happening.



FlamingWeazel said:
Machiavellian said:
FlamingWeazel said:

That's mininmal nothing is stopping anyone company from doing that anytime. In fact it's been done, if thats the power of the cloud MS is talking about then Ok I guess.

You are correct, nothing is stopping any company from having their own server running all the time gather info and pushing out content.  The fact that MS give developers this resource for free is the key.  Its something developers can rely on as a resouce they can use that they do not have to pay for. They can also rely on the other services that MS cloud platform delivers without them having to manage that server as well.  For big companies not that big of a deal but still good, for smaller devs, its a big deal because margins can be small so having it free is a big incentive to use it.


Nop devs won;t and cannot use it........it is not worth it and it would fracture the user base, what happens when you play offline?? The cloud is the myth lol.

It doesn't use the cloud?  You know it's just code.  If X exists, use X, Else use Y.  It's a matter of writing dynamic code.  It's not all that difficult, especially when using objects (Object Oriented Code).

It doesn't fracture the user base at all.  You may have a better experience via a cloud connected console vs. one that isn't, but the game would look visually similar to the non-connected console.  I mean we're still talking 1080p.  It isn't as if when the console is connected to the cloud it'll render in 4K, but when it isn't it's only 1080p.

More than likely what you'd see is your character has better graphic fidelity when connected to the cloud compared to when your console isn't connect to it.



Adinnieken said:
FlamingWeazel said:
Machiavellian said:
FlamingWeazel said:

That's mininmal nothing is stopping anyone company from doing that anytime. In fact it's been done, if thats the power of the cloud MS is talking about then Ok I guess.

You are correct, nothing is stopping any company from having their own server running all the time gather info and pushing out content.  The fact that MS give developers this resource for free is the key.  Its something developers can rely on as a resouce they can use that they do not have to pay for. They can also rely on the other services that MS cloud platform delivers without them having to manage that server as well.  For big companies not that big of a deal but still good, for smaller devs, its a big deal because margins can be small so having it free is a big incentive to use it.


Nop devs won;t and cannot use it........it is not worth it and it would fracture the user base, what happens when you play offline?? The cloud is the myth lol.

It doesn't use the cloud?  You know it's just code.  If X exists, use X, Else use Y.  It's a matter of writing dynamic code.  It's not all that difficult, especially when using objects (Object Oriented Code).

It doesn't fracture the user base at all.  You may have a better experience via a cloud connected console vs. one that isn't, but the game would look visually similar to the non-connected console.  I mean we're still talking 1080p.  It isn't as if when the console is connected to the cloud it'll render in 4K, but when it isn't it's only 1080p.

More than likely what you'd see is your character has better graphic fidelity when connected to the cloud compared to when your console isn't connect to it.


No..that is never gomng to happen. It has not yet for a reason and it will not.



FlamingWeazel said:
Machiavellian said:
FlamingWeazel said:
Machiavellian said:
FlamingWeazel said:

That's mininmal nothing is stopping anyone company from doing that anytime. In fact it's been done, if thats the power of the cloud MS is talking about then Ok I guess.

You are correct, nothing is stopping any company from having their own server running all the time gather info and pushing out content.  The fact that MS give developers this resource for free is the key.  Its something developers can rely on as a resouce they can use that they do not have to pay for. They can also rely on the other services that MS cloud platform delivers without them having to manage that server as well.  For big companies not that big of a deal but still good, for smaller devs, its a big deal because margins can be small so having it free is a big incentive to use it.


Nop devs won;t and cannot use it........it is not worth it and it would fracture the user base, what happens when you play offline?? The cloud is the myth lol.

Why would it facture the user base.  If you are on the X1 and connected it just works, if not then your game plays without it.  Also for games that are MP only like Titanfall and a few others that are coming out, this is not a problem.  Probably the first wave of games will be first party or exclusives as they can target all aspect of the console including cloud compute.


So your graphics and AI degrade when you disconnect???? LMAO not happening.

You do realize that every PC game has variable graphic fidelity based on the local GPU features.  Your supposition is baseless and ignorant.