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Forums - Gaming - Why Are You Guys Doubting Xbox One Cloud? It Can Surly Push Graphics Above PS4...

Machiavellian said:
S.T.A.G.E. said:
Machiavellian said:
S.T.A.G.E. said:
I think some fans believe so much in their company of choice that they create stories in their head and force them upon us.

I believe some fans want the device created by another company to fail so much they dismiss concepts not thought up by their brand of choice.  It really does run both ways.

I dont have thoughts like that. I tend to only focus on what exists, which is why I've been telling Sony fans that Microsoft has heavily invested in the cloud and not to underestimate it. After hearing about Playstation now everyone jumps out of their seats but guess what Microsoft has invested more and the Azure cloud is built into the core of the Xbox One. I would appreciate it if they stopped talking about things that haven't happened yet or might not even happen. No one believed in Sony's cloud until CES this year. Can you believe how many Xbox fans did? Even I was a nonbeliever. 

You're right, it does run both ways, but Toastboy has been making some posts these days that make me just question whether he actually focuses on what Microsoft does or rather what he wants them to do and psychologically projects that upon us.

I agree that Toastboy post was out there and full of wholes.  MS has not demostrated cloud compute and how it will change games on the X1.  I know they have built the platform to do it and I believe Halo 5 will be the game that show it but for right now its not there.  The only problem I have is when people dismiss the tech without really understanding it.  


I believe that thats because the Xbox One wasn't supposed to launch as early as they did, but because of their feelings about Sony they wouldn't let Sony launch without them being right behind them breathing down their neck. Killer Instinct isn't finished even though its a solid game, Twitch isn't done and the Cloud is still having the kinks worked out. MS should've just waited and then launched when everything was solid but they are so scared of Sonys dominance factor that they have to jump quickly. I hope we don't hear about any bad consoles because of this because Microsoft rushed the 360 to beat Sony a year early and screwed millions over because of it. I am sure their cloud will be fine, but I don't know if they'll be able to majorly enhance graphics. They might provide a slight adjustment, but only slightly as far as I know about the cloud thus far. Its the same reason they were rushing to change the clock speed on the Xbox One the second they heard about Sony's speed in February of last year. Anytime Sony makes a move they jump, so hopefully this means we'll be hearing more about the cloud at E3.



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FlamingWeazel said:
Machiavellian said:
FlamingWeazel said:
Adinnieken said:
FlamingWeazel said:
Machiavellian said:
FlamingWeazel said:
Machiavellian said:
FlamingWeazel said:

That's mininmal nothing is stopping anyone company from doing that anytime. In fact it's been done, if thats the power of the cloud MS is talking about then Ok I guess.

You are correct, nothing is stopping any company from having their own server running all the time gather info and pushing out content.  The fact that MS give developers this resource for free is the key.  Its something developers can rely on as a resouce they can use that they do not have to pay for. They can also rely on the other services that MS cloud platform delivers without them having to manage that server as well.  For big companies not that big of a deal but still good, for smaller devs, its a big deal because margins can be small so having it free is a big incentive to use it.


Nop devs won;t and cannot use it........it is not worth it and it would fracture the user base, what happens when you play offline?? The cloud is the myth lol.

Why would it facture the user base.  If you are on the X1 and connected it just works, if not then your game plays without it.  Also for games that are MP only like Titanfall and a few others that are coming out, this is not a problem.  Probably the first wave of games will be first party or exclusives as they can target all aspect of the console including cloud compute.


So your graphics and AI degrade when you disconnect???? LMAO not happening.

You do realize that every PC game has variable graphic fidelity based on the local GPU features.  Your supposition is baseless and ignorant.

Consoles are not PC's, and thats hardware based not cloud..Again it is not happening. Also, anyone can sue server cloud infrastructure to improve games not just MS. MS is the only one touting it because they got caught with a weaker console.

Actually everyone cannot just use server technology to improve their game.  The reason developers do not do it today was and still is cost.  MS has taken the cost part of the equation out for developers creating games for the X1.  Also cloud compute needs the infrastructure and platform for support.  This is where Orleans which is the cloud compute infrastructure and development API MS created comes into play.  MS spent 3 years developing Orleans so no its not something they thought up because they have a weaker platform.  The problem with your argument is that it comes from a stance of very limited information.  

I am fully aware of MS Azure cloud...cloud is everywhere and sony and many corporatins are already using cloud tech, please this is not even close to a MS only tech. MS invented the cloud now? Please, by the time cloud is more prevalent it will be everywhere. it is already here in many flavors.

Sony is using cloud tech but do you know what that means.  The term cloud really is just another term for remotely hosted processing and storage.  There are 2 pieces that are needed, hardware and software.  Just because Sony has a platform that does Saas which is software as a service, does not mean they can suddenly do Paas which is platform as a service or Iaas which is Infrastructure as a Service.  There are many different types of  cloud base services and the one Sony has is just one of them.  So going from streaming a game useing Playstation now does not suddenly mean that Sony can also provide cloud compute since thats another service which takes software and hardware to make it happen.  This is why I mentioned that MS has spent the money to build that platform.  Its not something you can just flip a switch and suddenly you have a cloud compute cloud based platform.

No one is saying that MS invented the cloud.  The key is that Azure is a platform that supports all cloud based services; IaaS, Haas, SaaS and PaaS.  Not going to bore you with a description of what each one is and what they means as you can easily google it.  



Adinnieken said:
Machiavellian said:

Actually everyone cannot just use server technology to improve their game.  The reason developers do not do it today was and still is cost.  MS has taken the cost part of the equation out for developers creating games for the X1.  Also cloud compute needs the infrastructure and platform for support.  This is where Orleans which is the cloud compute infrastructure and development API MS created comes into play.  MS spent 3 years developing Orleans so no its not something they thought up because they have a weaker platform.  The problem with your argument is that it comes from a stance of very limited information.  

From a hardware perspective, I think the fact that Microsoft made the infrastructure investment is possibly the more important factor.  Having data centers across the US and around the world greatly improves their ability to provide fast, reliable service to customers.  If one data center is impacted, they have another data center that can not only take-up additional traffic, but keep their services running.

Right now, Sony doesn't have that.  They have one data center in California where all their traffic is funnelled into.  That creates a bandwidth headache, as well as a serious congestion point for traffic. 

I thought Sony partnered with rackspace.  If So, I can see them deploying their service to a number of datacenters from rackspace but the cost will be high.



DeadBigfoot21 said:
toastboy44562 said:
DeadBigfoot21 said:
We will see it first in Titanfall. The first game to use the cloud.


dead rising 3 and forza use it

They dont use the cloud like titanfall will. Forza does use it to make some sort of AI i believe. It seems like titanfall will use the cloud alot more than just AI. 


Its 720p and 12 players so its not using it for graphics or player count



And people wonder why others ridicule the infinite power of cloud.
I'll believe it once I see it.
Otherwise it is complete rubbish and utter nonsense.

thanks tho



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For all the extatic fainting & howling praising of Now & cloud gaming in general, I wonder how many in here have actually tried cloud gaming???

I fail to see why this uproar??? Is it the blury artefacted graphics??? the low fps with frame skipping??? The horrendous lag with the commands??? The fact that you won't own your game??? Won't be able to mod it??? The fact the you will have to be always logged on the internet even for solo play( like the big evil a few years ago)??? Not being able to play any game at all if you stop paying your subscription fee???

Seriously, I'm kinda expecting anything these days... brand fanatism has reached braindead levels... it's Walking Dead in real life... what's the next "big thing"... Paying Sony or MS to have someone @ your door kicking you in the nuts???

From what I read here, they can ask you to raise your right arm in the air & yell "Sieg Heil!", you'll execute yourselves no questions asked, thanking madly for this great oportunity!

So many clueless people eager to agree, I'm really puzzled...



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n29CicBxZuw

01001011 01101001 01110011 01110011 00100000 01101101 01111001 00100000 01110011 01101000 01101001 01101110 01111001 00100000 01101101 01100101 01110100 01100001 01101100 00100000 01100001 01110011 01110011 00100001

joke thread surely, this was debunked long ago, it was a marketing lie, cloud cant improve graphics



dd if = /dev/brain | tail -f | grep games | nc -lnvvp 80

Hey Listen!

https://archive.org/details/kohina_radio_music_collection

Adinnieken said:
FlamingWeazel said:

Consoles are not PC's, and thats hardware based not cloud..Again it is not happening. Also, anyone can sue server cloud infrastructure to improve games not just MS. MS is the only one touting it because they got caught with a weaker console.

Poor logic is poor logic.  Consoles are computers.  Gaming developers provide the ability for gamers to adjust game fidelity because the wide range of GPUs availiable would make it difficult to dynamically account for each possibility.  Your branching logic would be huge.  With a console it's a check to see if there is a connection.  If so, then use the cloud.  If not, don't.  The fidelity of the game visualization adjusts based on connectivity.  You could, in theory, adjust game fidelity based on bandwidth and latency as well, but then we get into a more complex logic branch.  If anything, such logic to account for bandwidth and latency would be something Microsoft would develope so there's zero cost to developers.

I never said no one else could.  In fact, I'm the one saying cloud processing is a part of the future and both the PS4 and the Xbox One are designed to take advantage of it.  The difference is, and this is a difference Sony has admitted in their quarterly financials last year, is that Microsoft has a bigger cloud infrastructure. 

That's actually why Microsoft is touting the cloud.  Not because of a "weaker" console, but because they've made the investment in the infrastructure that developers can utilize.  Microsoft has data centers around the world, and multiple data centers in to spread the load.  Sony, by contrast has one data center in the US.  In engineering lingo, it's called a single point of failure.

Cloud processing is where things are going.  You'll start seeing it used more and more often.  It may be that you see it used more for smartphone and tablet applications at first, but it will be the future of things.  As I have stated elsewhere, we are coming up to a cliff in hardware technology and we won't be able to push boundries of Moore's Law.  the theoretical designs for atom width circuits have been designed, the materials that could be used to create them are being worked with.  Once we rearch that plataeu of atomic circuits, the shrinking of circuitry will slow to a snails pace until it comes to an end when the space between traces and transisters is so densely packed that they can't get any smaller.  And that my friend is a cliff we are quickly coming to.

Once that happens, electronics and integrated circuits won't be able get smaller and more powerful every generation.  Instead, in order to become more powerful, integrated circuits will need to get bigger and bigger.  We'll reach that cliff sometime around 2020 or 2025.  So Mr. Smartypants, where do you get more computing power if you can't fit it into the device?  I fear for your answer and I assume you'll be argumentative regardless.  The answer is, you have to use cloud-based computing in order to offset the limited capabilities of the physical device.  Those technology companies, including Intel, AMD, Nvidia, and Microsoft (as an example) are embracing as well as pushing the technology forward because those companies understand the problem we are facing well ahead of us. 

You might not. 



For real, you believe cloud computing can improve graphics?????? how naive.... :/



dd if = /dev/brain | tail -f | grep games | nc -lnvvp 80

Hey Listen!

https://archive.org/details/kohina_radio_music_collection

radha said:

For real, you believe cloud computing can improve graphics?????? how naive.... :/

It's logical that it can.

It's logical that if you off-load some aspects of the rendering that you free up local resources.  Therefore, you can use those free resources to do more.

So, yes, of course I believe cloud computing can improve graphics.  It isn't naive.  The technology has been demonstrated.  In fact, I just got done with a White House presentation regarding where technology is going and just take a guess what was one of the topics being discussed? 

What you think is possible doesn't matter.  What is possible has already been demonstrated and it'll be a reality.  You can dismiss it all you want, doesn't matter.  People dismissed the automobile when they came out.  People dismissed front-wheel drive when it came out.  Aluminum engines.  Safety glass.  Seat belts.  Smartphones.  The list goes on and on.  

Your ability to see beyond your own nose doesn't mean shit.  It's your own limitation.  The reality is that in the near future, cloud-based computing will off-load computing needs from the local machine to a remote machine allowing the local machine to do more with less processing power.

It won't matter that you have to always be connected, because always being connected is becoming a natural thing.  If you own a smartphone you're always connected.  It's a natural part of owning a smartphone.  You're already becoming acclimated to the idea of being always connected, you just don't realize it.



Adinnieken said:
radha said:

For real, you believe cloud computing can improve graphics?????? how naive.... :/

It's logical that it can.

It's logical that if you off-load some aspects of the rendering that you free up local resources.  Therefore, you can use those free resources to do more.

So, yes, of course I believe cloud computing can improve graphics.  It isn't naive.  The technology has been demonstrated.  In fact, I just got done with a White House presentation regarding where technology is going and just take a guess what was one of the topics being discussed? 

What you think is possible doesn't matter.  What is possible has already been demonstrated and it'll be a reality.  You can dismiss it all you want, doesn't matter.  People dismissed the automobile when they came out.  People dismissed front-wheel drive when it came out.  Aluminum engines.  Safety glass.  Seat belts.  Smartphones.  The list goes on and on.  

Your ability to see beyond your own nose doesn't mean shit.  It's your own limitation.  The reality is that in the near future, cloud-based computing will off-load computing needs from the local machine to a remote machine allowing the local machine to do more with less processing power.

It won't matter that you have to always be connected, because always being connected is becoming a natural thing.  If you own a smartphone you're always connected.  It's a natural part of owning a smartphone.  You're already becoming acclimated to the idea of being always connected, you just don't realize it.


In theory I believe that it could slightly elevate graphics and resolution, but not much more than what is stock in the hardware. Sony will still have the edge even if they slightly pumped it up. This is exactly why Microsoft had to rush to tweak the clock speed when they found out how powerful the PS4 was in February of last year.There is only so much you can do once the hardware is already out. Just shows you how threatened they feel by any positive movement that Sony makes.