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Forums - Gaming - Why Are You Guys Doubting Xbox One Cloud? It Can Surly Push Graphics Above PS4...

S.T.A.G.E. said:
I think some fans believe so much in their company of choice that they create stories in their head and force them upon us.

I believe some fans want the device created by another company to fail so much they dismiss concepts not thought up by their brand of choice.  It really does run both ways.



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Adinnieken said:
FlamingWeazel said:
Machiavellian said:
FlamingWeazel said:
Machiavellian said:
FlamingWeazel said:

That's mininmal nothing is stopping anyone company from doing that anytime. In fact it's been done, if thats the power of the cloud MS is talking about then Ok I guess.

You are correct, nothing is stopping any company from having their own server running all the time gather info and pushing out content.  The fact that MS give developers this resource for free is the key.  Its something developers can rely on as a resouce they can use that they do not have to pay for. They can also rely on the other services that MS cloud platform delivers without them having to manage that server as well.  For big companies not that big of a deal but still good, for smaller devs, its a big deal because margins can be small so having it free is a big incentive to use it.


Nop devs won;t and cannot use it........it is not worth it and it would fracture the user base, what happens when you play offline?? The cloud is the myth lol.

Why would it facture the user base.  If you are on the X1 and connected it just works, if not then your game plays without it.  Also for games that are MP only like Titanfall and a few others that are coming out, this is not a problem.  Probably the first wave of games will be first party or exclusives as they can target all aspect of the console including cloud compute.


So your graphics and AI degrade when you disconnect???? LMAO not happening.

You do realize that every PC game has variable graphic fidelity based on the local GPU features.  Your supposition is baseless and ignorant.

Consoles are not PC's, and thats hardware based not cloud..Again it is not happening. Also, anyone can sue server cloud infrastructure to improve games not just MS. MS is the only one touting it because they got caught with a weaker console.



im not totaly skeptical, MS create marketing telling that Xbox one is even more porwerfull when connected to the cloud.
but ill only believe when I see.



Machiavellian said:
S.T.A.G.E. said:
I think some fans believe so much in their company of choice that they create stories in their head and force them upon us.

I believe some fans want the device created by another company to fail so much they dismiss concepts not thought up by their brand of choice.  It really does run both ways.

I dont have thoughts like that. I tend to only focus on what exists, which is why I've been telling Sony fans that Microsoft has heavily invested in the cloud and not to underestimate it. After hearing about Playstation now everyone jumps out of their seats but guess what Microsoft has invested more and the Azure cloud is built into the core of the Xbox One. I would appreciate it if they stopped talking about things that haven't happened yet or might not even happen. No one believed in Sony's cloud until CES this year. Can you believe how many Xbox fans did? Even I was a nonbeliever. 

You're right, it does run both ways, but Toastboy has been making some posts these days that make me just question whether he actually focuses on what Microsoft does or rather what he wants them to do and psychologically projects that upon us.



FlamingWeazel said:
Adinnieken said:
FlamingWeazel said:
Machiavellian said:
FlamingWeazel said:
Machiavellian said:
FlamingWeazel said:

That's mininmal nothing is stopping anyone company from doing that anytime. In fact it's been done, if thats the power of the cloud MS is talking about then Ok I guess.

You are correct, nothing is stopping any company from having their own server running all the time gather info and pushing out content.  The fact that MS give developers this resource for free is the key.  Its something developers can rely on as a resouce they can use that they do not have to pay for. They can also rely on the other services that MS cloud platform delivers without them having to manage that server as well.  For big companies not that big of a deal but still good, for smaller devs, its a big deal because margins can be small so having it free is a big incentive to use it.


Nop devs won;t and cannot use it........it is not worth it and it would fracture the user base, what happens when you play offline?? The cloud is the myth lol.

Why would it facture the user base.  If you are on the X1 and connected it just works, if not then your game plays without it.  Also for games that are MP only like Titanfall and a few others that are coming out, this is not a problem.  Probably the first wave of games will be first party or exclusives as they can target all aspect of the console including cloud compute.


So your graphics and AI degrade when you disconnect???? LMAO not happening.

You do realize that every PC game has variable graphic fidelity based on the local GPU features.  Your supposition is baseless and ignorant.

Consoles are not PC's, and thats hardware based not cloud..Again it is not happening. Also, anyone can sue server cloud infrastructure to improve games not just MS. MS is the only one touting it because they got caught with a weaker console.

Actually everyone cannot just use server technology to improve their game.  The reason developers do not do it today was and still is cost.  MS has taken the cost part of the equation out for developers creating games for the X1.  Also cloud compute needs the infrastructure and platform for support.  This is where Orleans which is the cloud compute infrastructure and development API MS created comes into play.  MS spent 3 years developing Orleans so no its not something they thought up because they have a weaker platform.  The problem with your argument is that it comes from a stance of very limited information.  



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Machiavellian said:
FlamingWeazel said:
Adinnieken said:
FlamingWeazel said:
Machiavellian said:
FlamingWeazel said:
Machiavellian said:
FlamingWeazel said:

That's mininmal nothing is stopping anyone company from doing that anytime. In fact it's been done, if thats the power of the cloud MS is talking about then Ok I guess.

You are correct, nothing is stopping any company from having their own server running all the time gather info and pushing out content.  The fact that MS give developers this resource for free is the key.  Its something developers can rely on as a resouce they can use that they do not have to pay for. They can also rely on the other services that MS cloud platform delivers without them having to manage that server as well.  For big companies not that big of a deal but still good, for smaller devs, its a big deal because margins can be small so having it free is a big incentive to use it.


Nop devs won;t and cannot use it........it is not worth it and it would fracture the user base, what happens when you play offline?? The cloud is the myth lol.

Why would it facture the user base.  If you are on the X1 and connected it just works, if not then your game plays without it.  Also for games that are MP only like Titanfall and a few others that are coming out, this is not a problem.  Probably the first wave of games will be first party or exclusives as they can target all aspect of the console including cloud compute.


So your graphics and AI degrade when you disconnect???? LMAO not happening.

You do realize that every PC game has variable graphic fidelity based on the local GPU features.  Your supposition is baseless and ignorant.

Consoles are not PC's, and thats hardware based not cloud..Again it is not happening. Also, anyone can sue server cloud infrastructure to improve games not just MS. MS is the only one touting it because they got caught with a weaker console.

Actually everyone cannot just use server technology to improve their game.  The reason developers do not do it today was and still is cost.  MS has taken the cost part of the equation out for developers creating games for the X1.  Also cloud compute needs the infrastructure and platform for support.  This is where Orleans which is the cloud compute infrastructure and development API MS created comes into play.  MS spent 3 years developing Orleans so no its not something they thought up because they have a weaker platform.  The problem with your argument is that it comes from a stance of very limited information.  

I am fully aware of MS Azure cloud...cloud is everywhere and sony and many corporatins are already using cloud tech, please this is not even close to a MS only tech. MS invented the cloud now? Please, by the time cloud is more prevalent it will be everywhere. it is already here in many flavors.



S.T.A.G.E. said:
Machiavellian said:
S.T.A.G.E. said:
I think some fans believe so much in their company of choice that they create stories in their head and force them upon us.

I believe some fans want the device created by another company to fail so much they dismiss concepts not thought up by their brand of choice.  It really does run both ways.

I dont have thoughts like that. I tend to only focus on what exists, which is why I've been telling Sony fans that Microsoft has heavily invested in the cloud and not to underestimate it. After hearing about Playstation now everyone jumps out of their seats but guess what Microsoft has invested more and the Azure cloud is built into the core of the Xbox One. I would appreciate it if they stopped talking about things that haven't happened yet or might not even happen. No one believed in Sony's cloud until CES this year. Can you believe how many Xbox fans did? Even I was a nonbeliever. 

You're right, it does run both ways, but Toastboy has been making some posts these days that make me just question whether he actually focuses on what Microsoft does or rather what he wants them to do and psychologically projects that upon us.

I agree that Toastboy post was out there and full of wholes.  MS has not demostrated cloud compute and how it will change games on the X1.  I know they have built the platform to do it and I believe Halo 5 will be the game that show it but for right now its not there.  The only problem I have is when people dismiss the tech without really understanding it.  



FlamingWeazel said:

Consoles are not PC's, and thats hardware based not cloud..Again it is not happening. Also, anyone can sue server cloud infrastructure to improve games not just MS. MS is the only one touting it because they got caught with a weaker console.

Poor logic is poor logic.  Consoles are computers.  Gaming developers provide the ability for gamers to adjust game fidelity because the wide range of GPUs availiable would make it difficult to dynamically account for each possibility.  Your branching logic would be huge.  With a console it's a check to see if there is a connection.  If so, then use the cloud.  If not, don't.  The fidelity of the game visualization adjusts based on connectivity.  You could, in theory, adjust game fidelity based on bandwidth and latency as well, but then we get into a more complex logic branch.  If anything, such logic to account for bandwidth and latency would be something Microsoft would develope so there's zero cost to developers.

I never said no one else could.  In fact, I'm the one saying cloud processing is a part of the future and both the PS4 and the Xbox One are designed to take advantage of it.  The difference is, and this is a difference Sony has admitted in their quarterly financials last year, is that Microsoft has a bigger cloud infrastructure. 

That's actually why Microsoft is touting the cloud.  Not because of a "weaker" console, but because they've made the investment in the infrastructure that developers can utilize.  Microsoft has data centers around the world, and multiple data centers in to spread the load.  Sony, by contrast has one data center in the US.  In engineering lingo, it's called a single point of failure.

Cloud processing is where things are going.  You'll start seeing it used more and more often.  It may be that you see it used more for smartphone and tablet applications at first, but it will be the future of things.  As I have stated elsewhere, we are coming up to a cliff in hardware technology and we won't be able to push boundries of Moore's Law.  the theoretical designs for atom width circuits have been designed, the materials that could be used to create them are being worked with.  Once we rearch that plataeu of atomic circuits, the shrinking of circuitry will slow to a snails pace until it comes to an end when the space between traces and transisters is so densely packed that they can't get any smaller.  And that my friend is a cliff we are quickly coming to.

Once that happens, electronics and integrated circuits won't be able get smaller and more powerful every generation.  Instead, in order to become more powerful, integrated circuits will need to get bigger and bigger.  We'll reach that cliff sometime around 2020 or 2025.  So Mr. Smartypants, where do you get more computing power if you can't fit it into the device?  I fear for your answer and I assume you'll be argumentative regardless.  The answer is, you have to use cloud-based computing in order to offset the limited capabilities of the physical device.  Those technology companies, including Intel, AMD, Nvidia, and Microsoft (as an example) are embracing as well as pushing the technology forward because those companies understand the problem we are facing well ahead of us. 

You might not. 



Machiavellian said:
S.T.A.G.E. said:
Machiavellian said:
S.T.A.G.E. said:
I think some fans believe so much in their company of choice that they create stories in their head and force them upon us.

I believe some fans want the device created by another company to fail so much they dismiss concepts not thought up by their brand of choice.  It really does run both ways.

I dont have thoughts like that. I tend to only focus on what exists, which is why I've been telling Sony fans that Microsoft has heavily invested in the cloud and not to underestimate it. After hearing about Playstation now everyone jumps out of their seats but guess what Microsoft has invested more and the Azure cloud is built into the core of the Xbox One. I would appreciate it if they stopped talking about things that haven't happened yet or might not even happen. No one believed in Sony's cloud until CES this year. Can you believe how many Xbox fans did? Even I was a nonbeliever. 

You're right, it does run both ways, but Toastboy has been making some posts these days that make me just question whether he actually focuses on what Microsoft does or rather what he wants them to do and psychologically projects that upon us.

I agree that Toastboy post was out there and full of wholes.  MS has not demostrated cloud compute and how it will change games on the X1.  I know they have built the platform to do it and I believe Halo 5 will be the game that show it but for right now its not there.  The only problem I have is when people dismiss the tech without really understanding it.  

No one is dismissing the tech, the issue is MS fans acting like MS is the company that invented it lol, everyone will be using it when its practical.  Full blown cloud to improve graphics you wont see for a very long time.



Machiavellian said:

Actually everyone cannot just use server technology to improve their game.  The reason developers do not do it today was and still is cost.  MS has taken the cost part of the equation out for developers creating games for the X1.  Also cloud compute needs the infrastructure and platform for support.  This is where Orleans which is the cloud compute infrastructure and development API MS created comes into play.  MS spent 3 years developing Orleans so no its not something they thought up because they have a weaker platform.  The problem with your argument is that it comes from a stance of very limited information.  

From a hardware perspective, I think the fact that Microsoft made the infrastructure investment is possibly the more important factor.  Having data centers across the US and around the world greatly improves their ability to provide fast, reliable service to customers.  If one data center is impacted, they have another data center that can not only take-up additional traffic, but keep their services running.

Right now, Sony doesn't have that.  They have one data center in California where all their traffic is funnelled into.  That creates a bandwidth headache, as well as a serious congestion point for traffic.