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Forums - Nintendo - Do you agree with this point of view?

Eddie_Raja said:
padib said:
S.T.A.G.E. said:

Nintendo can try. The opportunity is there, but at this point its going to have to be something new and MS used Sonys concept to win over a share of the Wii crowd with the Kinect. 40 million motion control/camera units sold between the PS3 and the Xbox 360. The fad rubs off especially when you dumb it down further. Sony sold less because they dumbed it down less and made it more intuitive than the counterparts requiring full  body movement and proper tracking coupled with a small amount of content and shitty marketing. Microsoft has to have sold about thirty million units off the back of the Wii with the Kinect.When the Wii's numbers started dwindling the Kinects starting to rise. I sensed a correlation in 2010. Did you?

I did. And 2011 later coincides with Nintendo's dwindling support on the Wii. It's hard to tell if people were getting sick of Nintendo or if Nintendo just dropped the ball. A mix of both maybe?

Both.  You know people may think Patcher is a joke, but he was right about launching Wii HD in 2011.  It sould have put that tablet money into making it 4x as strong as this gen for $350 (That extra $100 really would have been that big a difference fyi).  There was some goodwill left from even the casual back then...

Yep, Pachter knew a Wii HD had to happen long ago. He knew the Wii wasn't going to last with the casuals being as they were. Nintendo needed a stronger base who would stay longer to enjoy gaming and they were all flocking to HD consoles.



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Yes, that comment tells the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth.



TheLastStarFighter said:
padib said:

Hi folks, I saw this posted by someone on a user's wall and I was wondering if you agree with this point of view:

Our market will shrink this gen and be completely controlled by Sony and Microsoft with Nintendo picking up the table scraps (as they did two gens before that). Because Nintendo created a fad and attracted people who have no true interest in gaming and just saw it as a passing Christmas gift that they could just enjoy and throw away. Its the reason why generation after generation Sony sells 80 million+ and higher. Microsoft figured out how to have a stable fan base like Sony and they have over 80 million in sales now. They basically have half of the PS2 real estate. The Wii U is not completely the problem with the tablet...its that the market Nintendo created from the very beginning did not care about gaming enough to truly invest in future iterations. They are apart of the casual market. Look at the sales of consoles before the Wii and await the sales of consoles after. Nintendo went after a disloyal community of people who more often than not wont be coming back. They only respond to trends like the plague because of price and marketing. The Wii U is not the case because it doesn't make gaming simple for non-gamers to just enjoy and move on with their lives. The Kinect did that hence why it gained twenty million in sales off the back of the Wii. Microsoft knows the Kinect wont sell amazingly by itself because that casual ship has sailed, so they bundled the Kinect 2 with the Xbox One to make a profit regardless of whether it needed it or not.

If not, what is flawed about it?

I'm interested in your responses.

No.  The Wii had a typical video game system sales life, very much like PS1.  Almost identical, really.  The so called "non-gamers" who loved Wii is greatly exhaturated.  Wii was loved by the mass market.  The same people who loved the novelty of Guitar Hero or GTA on PS2 flocked to Wii to try out Wii Sports.

The problem Nintendo is facing is that gen 7 was very long and was almost 2 gens in one.  Consumers picked up a Wii to play when it was new and used it on their SDTVs.  When HDTVs were rapidly adopted, PS3 and XB360 offered a new experience to consumers with HD visuals and great 3rd party content not available on Wii.  In particular, COD became the new mass market fad with Moder Warfare and so many consumers upgraded to PS360 as they became cheaper.

Going forward, neither Sony, MS or Nintendo have a "stable" or massively loyal user based.  Each has dedicated fans, but the mass market buys whatever is interesting and trendy.  Right now, none of the gen 8 systems have really captured imagination.  Nintendo is facing on uphill battle because many in the mass market are associating Wii with something passe and low-tech.  They have also developed online communities on PS or XBOXLive.  That said, the market is ready to be won by any company offering something that can get the mass market attention.  Right now I actually think it is MS in the worst place, simply because of the high price of One.

It is not the Wii audience that is disloyal.  The mass market is disloyal.  They jump from Nintendo to Playstation, back to Nintendo, over to XBox and right now they will go to something exciting. 


The numbers dont add up. The Wii added 70 million gamers to the industry that did not exist in the previous generation,. The market will shrink because Nintendo wont get the non-gamers back. All the analysts agreed that Nintendo found a new market who was not actively involved in gaming. This is why I used the term non-gamers. They went after the grandparents,women and the people who dont like complex controls and just want to have fun for short bursts of time in their day. 



I don't really agree with it. The part about non-loyal, "casual gamers", people with "no real interest in gaming" sounds a lot like what people used to say about the gaming crowd Sony brought into the market with its mainstream titles and casual appeal. A very jaded and pessimistic point of view. Of course, those people were wrong. Many of them stayed and I think many of the Wii crowd will stay. Nintendo just fucked the Wii U up. It needed something to separate itself from the Wii, instead the casual buyer has no idea what the difference is. People at least know the PS4 and Xbone are new systems required to play the next gen games. I have heard tons of people this holiday season asking exactly what the Wii is. Many people think it's just a Wii add-on required for new games like the Wiimote+ plus was.

You never know what these companies can do and change to bring people in. Big price drops can bring in tons of people. Will any of the big 3 have a Kinect type innovation that spurs great sales? Who knows. In a couple years Nintendo could realize the error of their ways and unleash a real next gen Wii successor. The gen just started, too early to tell imho.



J_Allard said:
I don't really agree with it. The part about non-loyal, "casual gamers", people with "no real interest in gaming" sounds a lot like what people used to say about the gaming crowd Sony brought into the market with its mainstream titles and casual appeal. A very jaded and pessimistic point of view. Of course, those people were wrong. Many of them stayed and I think many of the Wii crowd will stay. Nintendo just fucked the Wii U up. It needed something to separate itself from the Wii, instead the casual buyer has no idea what the difference is. People at least know the PS4 and Xbone are new systems required to play the next gen games. I have heard tons of people this holiday season asking exactly what the Wii is. Many people think it's just a Wii add-on required for new games like the Wiimote+ plus was.

You never know what these companies can do and change to bring people in. Big price drops can bring in tons of people. Will any of the big 3 have a Kinect type innovation that spurs great sales? Who knows. In a couple years Nintendo could realize the error of their ways and unleash a real next gen Wii successor. The gen just started, too early to tell imho.


Its not pessimism. Any brand has the ability to bring in non-gamers. The point is that Nintendo broke a new market. Even this article is in agreement with what I am saying. Nintendo went after the non-traditional market and created a new market. Everyone knows big price drops can bring in new people thats old news but this consoles design and concept was created to bring in people who do not game, therefore expanding the female market, and extended further to even senior citizens.

The Guardian Analysis, "Nintendo Wii console capture new market":

http://www.theguardian.com/business/2007/oct/10/usnews.internationalnews

You can disagree all you want, but it doesn't change the fact that it exists.



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Most of this should explicitly refer to just the Wii as Nintendo consoles have done moderately well to good before it. And I doubt most people would say that Nintendo sold to exclusively the casuals in the "beginning."

This is not why Nintendo is failing, in the home console sector.



I personally believe the WiiU was the natural progression for the Wii by bringing a more powerful system that still can use the wiimote and a new controller that pretty much bring the concept of the DS to a console.
Myself when I buy a Nintendo product its for its unique gameplay and there amazing first party games whether its the 3DS or the WiiU and I think thats the key to there success. Its still too early to say if the WiiU will sell or not.



NintendoPie said:
Most of this should explicitly refer to just the Wii as Nintendo consoles have done moderately well to good before it. And I doubt most people would say that Nintendo sold to exclusively the casuals in the "beginning."

This is not why Nintendo is failing, in the home console sector.


The Wii was created with a new market in mind. 



S.T.A.G.E. said:
TheLastStarFighter said:
padib said:

Hi folks, I saw this posted by someone on a user's wall and I was wondering if you agree with this point of view:

Our market will shrink this gen and be completely controlled by Sony and Microsoft with Nintendo picking up the table scraps (as they did two gens before that). Because Nintendo created a fad and attracted people who have no true interest in gaming and just saw it as a passing Christmas gift that they could just enjoy and throw away. Its the reason why generation after generation Sony sells 80 million+ and higher. Microsoft figured out how to have a stable fan base like Sony and they have over 80 million in sales now. They basically have half of the PS2 real estate. The Wii U is not completely the problem with the tablet...its that the market Nintendo created from the very beginning did not care about gaming enough to truly invest in future iterations. They are apart of the casual market. Look at the sales of consoles before the Wii and await the sales of consoles after. Nintendo went after a disloyal community of people who more often than not wont be coming back. They only respond to trends like the plague because of price and marketing. The Wii U is not the case because it doesn't make gaming simple for non-gamers to just enjoy and move on with their lives. The Kinect did that hence why it gained twenty million in sales off the back of the Wii. Microsoft knows the Kinect wont sell amazingly by itself because that casual ship has sailed, so they bundled the Kinect 2 with the Xbox One to make a profit regardless of whether it needed it or not.

If not, what is flawed about it?

I'm interested in your responses.

No.  The Wii had a typical video game system sales life, very much like PS1.  Almost identical, really.  The so called "non-gamers" who loved Wii is greatly exhaturated.  Wii was loved by the mass market.  The same people who loved the novelty of Guitar Hero or GTA on PS2 flocked to Wii to try out Wii Sports.

The problem Nintendo is facing is that gen 7 was very long and was almost 2 gens in one.  Consumers picked up a Wii to play when it was new and used it on their SDTVs.  When HDTVs were rapidly adopted, PS3 and XB360 offered a new experience to consumers with HD visuals and great 3rd party content not available on Wii.  In particular, COD became the new mass market fad with Moder Warfare and so many consumers upgraded to PS360 as they became cheaper.

Going forward, neither Sony, MS or Nintendo have a "stable" or massively loyal user based.  Each has dedicated fans, but the mass market buys whatever is interesting and trendy.  Right now, none of the gen 8 systems have really captured imagination.  Nintendo is facing on uphill battle because many in the mass market are associating Wii with something passe and low-tech.  They have also developed online communities on PS or XBOXLive.  That said, the market is ready to be won by any company offering something that can get the mass market attention.  Right now I actually think it is MS in the worst place, simply because of the high price of One.

It is not the Wii audience that is disloyal.  The mass market is disloyal.  They jump from Nintendo to Playstation, back to Nintendo, over to XBox and right now they will go to something exciting. 


The numbers dont add up. The Wii added 70 million gamers to the industry that did not exist in the previous generation,. The market will shrink because Nintendo wont get the non-gamers back. All the analysts agreed that Nintendo found a new market who was not actively involved in gaming. This is why I used the term non-gamers. They went after the grandparents,women and the people who dont like complex controls and just want to have fun for short bursts of time in their day. 


Not true. The market didn't expand that much. Almost everyone I know who bought a Wii eventually bought a PS360. There is a ton of overlap. It was common a while back to say you were a Wii60 gamer. There were a few grandmas, but the bulk of Wii's audience was the mass market gamer friendly population who has no brand loyalty and buys the latest fun mainstream product.



Its not difficult to understand where Nintendo went wrong with the Wii U.

Nintendo tried to create a console that appeals to both the core gamer crowd (PS3/360 gamers) as well as the casual crowd(wii gamers). To get the core gamer crowd they went for specific types of launch games like ZombiU and ports for well known 3rd party games like NFS, AC:3 and Batman. To get the interest of the casual gamer (which is always risky) they bundled the gamepad.

They failed on both fronts.

The games they had at launch as well as through out the last two years did not appeal enough to the core gamer crowd to entice them to switch to another console. Another console which appears to be more current gen than next gen. I think I am a good example here as a PC/PS3/360 guy...the stategy of Nintendo was to get guys like me on board but they failed to do that.

As for the casuals...well they just dont seem to be impressed by the gamepad. In fact i dont really think anyone is...The Wii remote was immediately enjoyable and would easily impress anybody walking into a shop watching someone play wii Sports. It looked fun, felt fun and was fun. An easy sell imo. They failed to recreate this with the gamepad. It was always going to be risky and well that risk didnt pay off and it never will.

At the end of the day it comes down to one thing: Nintendo executed their plan for industry dominance horribly. I think the idea behind it was sound: Create a system that both casual and core gamers would buy. While trying to appeal to both they failed at appealing to anyone (besides the Nintendo faithful obviously!).

What could they have done better? That's a tough question to answer actually. A question I probably dont have the answer to. If Nintendo was hell bent on appealing to both then I would say to Nintendo that they should have done more research into both markets. What will appeal to casual gamers? What are the core gamers excited about? The casuals will always be hard to figure out because its either a hit or a miss with them. But the core would be pretty easy...they like next gen looking games! They like beastly specs! Crazy promises and the hype to go with it! That kinda things. So yeah one market is unpredictable to please and the other just takes a lot of investment to please (good hardware with big AAA titles to show it off).

IMO building the perfect console is really difficult. In this day and age its tough to build something that everybody wants. Rather stick to what you get at but be the best in whatever it is. I think Sony realized this and are trying to make it happen. "The best place to play", its all in their slogan really. Nintendo needed to look at the Wii and ask them what was good about it? The answer would have been motion controls, games for everyone etc. They should have focused on those things and just done it much better.



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