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Forums - Nintendo - Do you agree with this point of view?

padib said:
Cleary397 said:
The author of that just sounds bitter and elitist by saying Nintendo "attracted people who have no true interest in gaming"

What exactly is a true interest in gaming?
Someone who enjoys games and will purchase games they like the look of is what defines a gamer to me.

Well, I'll be fair to the author and post a defense on this point. (Though I completely disagree that this consumer behavior is widespread for the Wii)

There may be a consumer that has an aversion to gaming in general, but that saw the Wii as an alternative, but that after trying it out fell back to their original aversion.

It would be like someone trying a new soft drink but abandoning it in favor of their usual soft drink preference. I've done it. I usually love Coca Cola (almost to the point of addiction), but I've tried some Dr. Pepper.

And its a bad thing that you tried Dr. pepper?

No, not at all. Dr pepper is delicious... much like... the wii... is... delicious?

that kind of went off track...

anyway... People trying new things in a market they may not have had an interest in before can be a good thing.

Otherwise people would be crucifying Square Enix for releasing FF spin-offs on mobile devices in order to attract 'casual gamers' (i hate that term) into the full on gaming market.



Current Game Machines: 3DS, Wii U, PC.

Currently Playing: X-Com(PC), Smash Bros(WiiU), Banner Saga(PC), Guild Wars 2(PC), Project X Zone(3DS), Luigis Mansion 2(3DS), DayZ(PC)

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I would also like to post this...

"Nintendo’s family-focused content is losing its appeal as titles were delayed, casual gamers migrate to smartphones and tablets, and hardcore players opt for faster Sony and Microsoft machines. The world’s biggest maker of video-game machines also refuses to offer games with its lineup of iconic characters such as Mario and Zelda on mobile devices, limiting its ability to profit from surging demand by online players."- Bloomberg

"Sony expects to sell 5 million units of the PS4 through March, or more than half of Nintendo’s annual forecast in less than five months. Hideki Yasuda, an analyst at Ace Research Institute in Tokyo, forecasts Wii U sales of 6 million this fiscal year.

PlayStation and Xbox consoles are better for playing online games like “Call of Duty” and “Halo” and offer better links to Internet-based entertainment services, said Greg Woods, 50, of Grand Rapids, Michigan.

“The Wii U just doesn’t have the games the other boxes have,” Woods said by phone. “Until I can get a Wii U at a much lower price, my next purchase will be a PS4 or Xbox One for myself and my kids.”

Sony and Microsoft’s launches further erode Nintendo’s share of a market it once dominated. The company posted operating and net losses in the year ended March 31, 2012, for the first time since going public in 1962."

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-12-02/nintendo-seen-missing-target-as-sony-microsoft-sales-dwarf-wii-u.html



padib said:
Cleary397 said:

And its a bad thing that you tried Dr. pepper?

No, not at all. Dr pepper is delicious... much like... the wii... is... delicious?

that kind of went off track...

anyway... People trying new things in a market they may not have had an interest in before can be a good thing.

Otherwise people would be crucifying Square Enix for releasing FF spin-offs on mobile devices in order to attract 'casual gamers' (i hate that term) into the full on gaming market.

Oh, for sure the Wii is delicious to many and that's why, if you read this post I wrote a while back in this thread, you'll see that I agree with you.

But being completely honest, the buy-and-dispose type of consumers exists in the Wii's userbase. It happens all the time with a very popular item. The problem is to generalize and say that it's the case for all consumers safe a minority. I could see why that argument is made (Cube to Wii sales increase), but I've given good reasons why that doesn't hold water (the DS userbase).


The question I pose here is how did Nintendo exponentially grow from a 20-30 million range selling console to 100 million without strong third party and inferior hardware without luring the mass of exisiting core consumers regardless of which flag they game under. What most people (including myself) have come to the conclusion of is that Nintendo created a new market. I, myself, call them "non-gamers" because before this they had either a passing interest or no interest in gaming at all. The Wii U and Wii Sports was a passing fun event that even myself and my friends enjoyed in the living room. Even with all the money the PS2 made, the PS2's end of generation numbers matches up between the 360 and PS3. We know where those gamers went.  When the Wii came out the whole marketshare expanded having about 70+ Million consoles extra in the market for Nintendo which they never had appear out of nowhere. If those 70+ million that Nintendo gained does not reappear we must conclude all eventually come to some conclusion. To be peaceful that would take a waiting game. The most obvious of answers will anger even the most hardcore of fans and I've seen it (LOL Trust me, bro). It's not like we don't want Nintendo to do well. Most are expecting the market to shrink because of Nintendos marketshare. The question is what do you think? I still haven't heard what you believe.



My reply:

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/thread.php?id=174620&page=1#2

reply with style :p



Well since you asked so nicely...

1. The Wii is a fad argument has little merit. It IS certainly fair to say that the Wii's fanbase was less devoted than the XBox 360 or PS3, but fad is unwarranted. Firstly, the Wii sold well for as long as you'd expect any game console to do. The Wii sold well above its competitors until 2011 which was 5 years after its launch. Sales dipped below their competitors when Nintendo stopped supporting it with software, which exposed their massive weakness in third party software. But, it had an average video game console lifespan. It has a chance to go down as the second best selling home console ever... so I don't see fad here. Fad implies it had a short period of popularity, which wasn't the case.

2. The idea that Wii owners never bought software after buying the system is clearly erroneous. While the Wii's tie ration IS smaller than the 360 or the PS3, it is only slightly so. 9 compared to 9.6 for the PS3 and 10.62 for 360. That number is a bit inflated by the fact that the Wii was always bundled with a game of some kind. But, even so, the idea that Wii owners never bought a game beyond the initial purchase is clearly false. On average, they bought 8 or 9. The Wii still has moved the most software according to our figures, and while the 360 will eventually overtake it, the idea that Wii owners never bought games just doesn't fly.

As for the Wii U's overall success, I'm a bit too tired to flesh out an argument, but I'll say this. Everyone likes video games. Gaming isn't a 16-34 year old male thing, nor is it a little kid thing. The thrill of getting a high score is universal. The idea of exploring and prodding an interesting new world is universal. The idea of competing with others is universal.

The problem is that gaming has evolved in such a way that it only appeals to a very narrow segment of the population. Companies never invested in building a market outside of 16-34 year old males, with a smattering of kids as well. Because they never nourished these potentially fertile markets, it's very hard for them to make a profit in them, so they quickly return to what they know. Shooters, sports, and open world games.

The Wii succeeded because it took the universal love of gaming and combined it with the right software. Wii Sports allowed the thrill of competition for people who can't manipulate 2 joysticks and 8 buttons. NSMB brings gaming back to a simpler time when rules were clearly laid out. No inventories, no manipulating a 3D environment, and no grand puzzles. Super Mario Galaxy was a game that for all its inventiveness is played mainly with 3 different inputs and an analog stick. Animal Crossing provides the joy of exploration without the fear of defeat, Just Dance allows amateur dancers to get their groove on, and so on so forth.

Basically, Nintendo needs to provide great "casual" software to attract casual gamers, and they haven't done that yet. The Mario games and Wii Party U are a good start. A packaged Wii Fit U and Wii Sports should be good. Nintendo's Karaoke service could be a nice boost if properly advertised. Mario Kart will possibly be the biggest Wii U title when it comes out, and Smash will be nice as well. These games will help ensure Nintendo has relatively decent success going forward, but Nintendo also needs exciting new casual games to invigorate their market.

The good thing for Nintendo is that Sony and Microsoft have thus far shown exceeding disinterest in the casual market this gen. The casual market is still Nintendo's to grab. It is still 100% possible for the Wii U to not only match but exceed the Wii's sales. Of course, it's not likely based on Nintendo's current trajectory, and every passing month makes it harder. Still though, if Nintendo creates the right software, they'll succeed. If Nintendo doesn't succeed, then we'll be left with Microsoft and Sony fighting over PS360 fans with both new consoles struggling to expand the market.



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Once cloud gaming comes in 2-3 years it's over. No joke.



"Excuse me sir, I see you have a weapon. Why don't you put it down and let's settle this like gentlemen"  ~ max

padib said:
S.T.A.G.E. said:

The question I pose here is how did Nintendo exponentially grow from a 20-30 million range selling console to 100 million without strong third party and inferior hardware without luring the mass of exisiting core consumers regardless of which flag they game under. What most people (including myself) have come to the conclusion of is that Nintendo created a new market. I, myself, call them "non-gamers" because before this they had either a passing interest or no interest in gaming at all. The Wii U and Wii Sports was a passing fun event that even myself and my friends enjoyed in the living room. Even with all the money the PS2 made, the PS2's end of generation numbers matches up between the 360 and PS3. We know where those gamers went.  When the Wii came out the whole marketshare expanded having about 70+ Million consoles extra in the market for Nintendo which they never had appear out of nowhere. If those 70+ million that Nintendo gained does not reappear we must conclude all eventually come to some conclusion. To be peaceful that would take a waiting game. The most obvious of answers will anger even the most hardcore of fans and I've seen it (LOL Trust me, bro). It's not like we don't want Nintendo to do well. Most are expecting the market to shrink because of Nintendos marketshare. The question is what do you think? I still haven't heard what you believe.

I see where you're coming from, it's not completely far fetched.

What I believe personally is that the new flock of people buying Nintendo home consoles is a mixed bag. It's not simply people who were in for a one-night stand, but some of them and then some who actually liked the new type of content Nintendo had to offer and will be back if software, price and marketing are right. At the moment, all 3 fail hence why I believe the U is struggling. That's why I think your theory has some basis in reality, but it is not the main cause of Nintendo's sales challenge right now. That other market that likes Nintendo content, the market that you're not seeing, they are just not buying right now because Nintendo is not delivering. The reason I strongly believe they exist is because people are committedly buying Nintendo's portables, and it's likely because they like what they are being offered.


Nintendos core market will buy Wii U's in due time. Problem is after the third parties left that stable market is around 20-30 million Lifetime.



It's honestly fine. I mean I don't think people are as loyal as some people think. People went to PS2 because it was the best option, then they went to 360 (At first) because it was the best, and now they will go back to PS4...



Prediction for console Lifetime sales:

Wii:100-120 million, PS3:80-110 million, 360:70-100 million

[Prediction Made 11/5/2009]

3DS: 65m, PSV: 22m, Wii U: 18-22m, PS4: 80-120m, X1: 35-55m

I gauruntee the PS5 comes out after only 5-6 years after the launch of the PS4.

[Prediction Made 6/18/2014]

padib said:
Eddie_Raja said:
It's honestly fine. I mean I don't think people are as loyal as some people think. People went to PS2 because it was the best option, then they went to 360 (At first) because it was the best, and now they will go back to PS4...

Do you honestly, honestly now, think that the people who bought the Wii are being catered to on the PS4? Those who bought the DS?

There are gamers out there who aren't being targetted at all on home consoles right now, not by Nintendo, not by MS and not by Sony. Until they are, why should they flock to one console or another, just because? People don't buy consoles just because, they usually buy consoles because there's something for them.


Yes.  Every friend I know that raved about the Wii and loved it the first year dumped for a 360.  Then they all dumped that for a PS3 (Not kidding actually a little surprised).  I am not talking about casuals here.  I am talking about people with a massive gamer score selling their 360 and all their games for a PS4.

 

Most of my friends were fanboys at one point for one of the three.  However they are all switching to PS4 now, and besides being the best choice (Bare with me on that); I think there is another reason they have no problem switching sides:   Me and the other PS3 buyers are the only ones of a group of about 20 friends who have never switched sides or ever wanted to.  They see Playstation has always kept us happy.  No droughts, just great games and hardware...



Prediction for console Lifetime sales:

Wii:100-120 million, PS3:80-110 million, 360:70-100 million

[Prediction Made 11/5/2009]

3DS: 65m, PSV: 22m, Wii U: 18-22m, PS4: 80-120m, X1: 35-55m

I gauruntee the PS5 comes out after only 5-6 years after the launch of the PS4.

[Prediction Made 6/18/2014]

padib said:
Eddie_Raja said:

Yes.  Every friend I know that raved about the Wii and loved it the first year dumped for a 360.  Then they all dumped that for a PS3 (Not kidding actually a little surprised).  I am not talking about casuals here.  I am talking about people with a massive gamer score selling their 360 and all their games for a PS4.

 

Most of my friends were fanboys at one point for one of the three.  However they are all switching to PS4 now, and besides being the best choice (Bare with me on that); I think there is another reason they have no problem switching sides:   Me and the other PS3 buyers are the only ones of a group of about 20 friends who have never switched sides or ever wanted to.  They see Playstation has always kept us happy.  No droughts, just great games and hardware...

We're not talking about the same market. You guys are male gamers of a certain age and you fit in the PS360 marketbase.

I'm talking about families, men, women, boys, girls. People who buy DS' and still buy 3DS'. They are out there and they are not necessarily interested in PS360 games.

Why do so many people not see the existence of that market, it's weird.

No we are not.  My parents have a wii that hasn't been turned on for years.  They use their PS3 multiple times a week forr Netflix, Singstar (Big exclusive people always forget), and Blue Ray.  My parents are the farthest thing from hardcore gamers you can imagine.  Once the hype wore off, they chose to use the console that isn't a one trick pony.

Also the "Families" I know of use tablets instead of a Wii.  So yeah the tablet market killing Nintendo is no joke...  My neice litterally just got the new Kindle Fire and stopped using her 3DS.



Prediction for console Lifetime sales:

Wii:100-120 million, PS3:80-110 million, 360:70-100 million

[Prediction Made 11/5/2009]

3DS: 65m, PSV: 22m, Wii U: 18-22m, PS4: 80-120m, X1: 35-55m

I gauruntee the PS5 comes out after only 5-6 years after the launch of the PS4.

[Prediction Made 6/18/2014]