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Forums - Nintendo - Why Nintendo's software can no longer carry their home consoles...

Captain_Tom said:
DanneSandin said:
Captain_Tom said:
DanneSandin said:
If this were true, then Fifa, Madden, NHL, Halo and God of War and Grand Turismo wouldn't sell consoles either. But clearly, they do.


They won't carry their consoles.  Did you read everything I said?  

 

-MGS4 was amazing! But Uncharted, Resistance, Little Big Planet, Killzone, and so many more NEW games proved that this wasn't just a PS2.

I read everything you wrote, and what I found was a lack of direction in the OP, except bashing Nintendo for being less and less creative. You have no point to this thread. This is how the OP goes:

Nintendo is less and less creative, doing less and less NEW things with new or old IP's (and this thesis is supported with little evidence, that you have put together without much research), but lets NOT bring the other console makers into this because third parties. BUT, Sony did make a lot of new IP's for the PS3, and so did Xbox as well... kinda. And then you have lots of new next gen IP's that's not coming to Wii U!


You say I have no point, and yet you state correctly that my point is that Nintendo is failing to continue the creative formula that has been essential to them staying in the black more and more as time goes on. But there are some massive points you are not getting or don't understand:

1) Third parties are a valid point as many other people pointed out.  Not having The Division, The Witcher, and countless more next gen experiences is exactly why the Wii U looks like a last-gen machine.  

2) Sony DID make a ton of new IP's that did things the previous gen never did.  Remember that persistant online war with 256 player battles you had on PS2?  Me neither...

3) I am not "Bashing" Nintendo.  I am merily pointing out that rehashes of old IP's only get you the hardcore supporters (Hence the big launch numbers).  But to convinve the larger gaming audience that this new console will offer new experiences you need to actually have fresh and groud breaking games.  Nintendo used to excel at that, and that is what kept them allive when third parties abbandoned their inferior console designs.  Now they are starting to lose the one thing that kept them afloat and it really shows...  

I said I GUESS that's your point, but it's hard to tell since your OP is disconnected from your Thread title.

1) Agreed.

2) What I was pointing out was the fact that you said, quite clearly, "let's not drag PS/XB into this comparison - buuuut I'll do that anyways, just to point out that they're doing things better than Nintendo. But please don't mention them again." I'm not actually arguing the point that Sony did or didn't make new IP's, just the fact that you're using them as an example AFTER you said yourself that this isn't about them or MS, thus ecxluding them from the discussion.

3) Wii U DOES have new experiences, as have been shown time and time again in this very thread. You must have seen them? Nintendo have always excelled at doing new things with their existing IP, and that hasn't changed. Maybe the biggest fail of your OP is that you don't include handhelds. Nintendo have TWO consoles out on the market, you know, and excluding one of them in you OP isn't quite fair, since Nintendo is doing great work with the 3DS. They single handedly turn that ship around with a price cut and great games (which incidentally uses new ideas in them). And what you're really saying in your third point is this: PS4/X1 is only selling because of third parties, because none of them have any new experiences to offer (none that matters anyways).

But I do agree that Nintendo needs more diverse games to truly succeed. What they're doing with their own IP's are great (just look at the difference between SMG and SM3DW), but they need more than that. Their own IP's will ensure that they live on, but to truly thrive they either need the 3rd parties in force, or something truly new - like the Wii. But accusing them of getting less and less creative isn't fair, nor true.



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DucksUnlimited said:
Mr Khan said:
sabastian said:
When I pluck down my money on a Playstation console, 3 things I'm certain that I do not have to worry about for the lifetime of the console.

(1) Diversity in genres
(2) New IP's & Lots of Indie Titles
(3) Steady flow of 3rd party titles

Why do I need a Nintendo Box ?

The best first party games in the business, bar none.

Are you trying to convince him?

Merely making a general observation.



Monster Hunter: pissing me off since 2010.

oniyide said:
biglittlesps said:
Mr Khan said:
sabastian said:
When I pluck down my money on a Playstation console, 3 things I'm certain that I do not have to worry about for the lifetime of the console.

(1) Diversity in genres
(2) New IP's & Lots of Indie Titles
(3) Steady flow of 3rd party titles

Why do I need a Nintendo Box ?

The best first party games in the business, bar none.



Best first party only if you like Nintendo games. Sony and Microsoft also has best first party games liked by many, but Sony is the one who is making best first party games for hardare gamers in diverstiy with New IP's so its reaching so many people to like due to diverstiy unlike Nitendo games which are loved due to popularity of its IP.

What Nintendo really has is the IP's that are very popular and some creativity in making some innovation with those IP's. But, creativity in old IP's are not enough for bringing new people to their console otherwise only old fans will buy their games and hardware.

YOu dont even need to say all that. the idea that it has the "best" is so wrong and subjective it leads me to believe that Mr. Khan has no argument and had to fall back on that tired statement

I had assumed the argument was self-evident, such that the statement didn't even need to be made (and am somewhat bothered by the fact that i had to make it in the first place).



Monster Hunter: pissing me off since 2010.

DanneSandin said:
Captain_Tom said:
justiceiro said:
OP: First, since you put goodneye, you should put zombiu, and w101 too, they are really unique and never ever before you could find something like then.

Second, its weird that you think that they can't carry with their old ip when this was exactaly what they did with the 3DS. Animal crossing, mario kart, SM3DL, nobody cared about steel diver, kid ikarus, they where the really innovative ips on the machine. And 3rd support find a low level of success actually, except for MH.

You guys are really ignoring another factor: price. Nintendo never lanched a hardware so expensive before, even game cube was more cheaper. And while 3Ds had a 30% price cut, wiiu had a 15% one, and not exactally, since there areadly was a option sitting at $300. So now we have a hardware that looks like the one selled at $150, but have a price tag closer to the $400-$500 ones.

I find incridible how nintendo developed the gamepad, and seems that not a single person in there said: hey, lets think about a game that really use this thing before shipping? How couldn't thisnk of this before nintedo, what really happened in there?


So Zombie U is as innovative now as Golden Eye was?  Really?

 

Also W101 got mediocre reviews and sold nearly nothing...

What does it matter if it got mediocre reviews and sold nearly nothing? Does it make the game LESS creative/new? No, no it doesn't. Just take a look at Tearaway and the Puppeter made by Sony. Got high praises, sure, but sold near to nothing. Or take a look at Knack for that matter. Mediocre scores, and will probably not sell all that well. The same goes for Ryse. Sure, they'll have some success, but I predict that SM3DW >> them both. Anyways, does that mean they're not new experiences? No! So don't try to belittle W101's creativity just because it's a Nintendo IP that's sold bad or got mediocre scores.

Getting Mediocre review and selling nothing does not earn it a classic rating in my book.  SOCOM 4 got similar scores and sold badly, and I wouldn't mention it as one of Sony's best.



At this point I just want to say that I am not saying Nintendo makes terrible games. They just haven't made almost anything new that is good for a long time.

Does anyone really disagree that over time Nintendo has come up with less and less new IP's, and that possibly it affected their sales?



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Captain_Tom said:

Well millions disagree with you.  The Last Of Us, Demon's Souls, Killzone, InFamous, Resistance, MAG, MGS4, LBP,  Heavy Rain, and Uncharted are games I could not imagine going through last gen not playing.  Guess what?  8 of those were 100% new IP's.  There isn't Uncharted Party 3 or Killzone racing.  Nintendo isn't unchallenged in the games department...


Guess what, apart of heavy rain and TLOU, I couldn't imagine myself playing those fucking generic and boring games you mentioned. It would give me aids. You like them ? Ok, cool story bro. 

Now the top 15 of most sold games of all time:

ALLLLL NINTENDO

Now the top 30:

All nintendo, minus 3 games from take two, 1 form microsoft and 1 by Sony and 1 by activision.

 

No one can match Nintendo son.





toastboy44562 said:
I agree with OP,Nintendo, and its fans, think that old games with slightly better graphics will save the system but it will not. What casual fan is going to spend 300 dollars for the Wii U+ 100 dollar fit board to play wii u fit just to have better graphics. It's not gonna happen Nintendo Microsoft has a better chance of making it work because kinect comes with every system.

 

Hang on here.  PS3/Xbox 360 fans have been saying for years how their systems were so many times better graphically than the Wii.  Now, the Wii U is more capable than those systems, yet you say "slightly better graphics" in comparison to the Wii.  You guys really need to make up your minds.  I guess the PS3/Xbox 360 had barely better graphics than the Wii then....right?  Also, most of the causals that would buy Wii Fit U most likely have a board already from their Wii.  You can download the game for free and buy a meter for $19.99.

Also, I'm playing Super Mario 3D World and it's awesome.  To bad peoples "hate" prevents them from playing truly great games...it's their loss.

Stop hating and start playing.



Stop hating and start playing.

Captain_Tom said:
At this point I just want to say that I am not saying Nintendo makes terrible games. They just haven't made almost anything new that is good for a long time.

Does anyone really disagree that over time Nintendo has come up with less and less new IP's, and that possibly it affected their sales?

To an extent, possibly, though I would argue the extent is limited even if true, since many of their "core" new IPs haven't really been their strongest sellers even if they were more critically acclaimed (like Pikmin, for instance).

In lacking third party support, Nintendo's power has to come from differentiation, which they do to a greater or lesser degree. N64, GameCube, and Wii U so far have had less differentiation, while Wii had a lot of it, but it's not about being "samey" within their own first-party games, but rather running similar games to what you can get on other platforms (but then get all the third party games too). GameCube was driven by Smash Bros Melee, a game that was wholly unique in its generation. Wii sales were driven by all kinds of unique games.

Wii U's bigger unspoken problem is that Nintendo is not doing much to differentiate it from the 3DS. Now that their handheld games can resemble their console games and the 3DS is getting first dibs on many franchises, people are going to see less worth in the more expensive home console (even as the console entries are superior in many cases, a la NSMBU vs 2, or 3D World vs 3D Land, or likely Kart 8 vs Kart 7)



Monster Hunter: pissing me off since 2010.

FrancisNobleman said:
Captain_Tom said:

Well millions disagree with you.  The Last Of Us, Demon's Souls, Killzone, InFamous, Resistance, MAG, MGS4, LBP,  Heavy Rain, and Uncharted are games I could not imagine going through last gen not playing.  Guess what?  8 of those were 100% new IP's.  There isn't Uncharted Party 3 or Killzone racing.  Nintendo isn't unchallenged in the games department...


Guess what, apart of heavy rain and TLOU, I couldn't imagine myself playing those fucking generic and boring games you mentioned. It would give me aids. You like them ? Ok, cool story bro. 

Now the top 15 of most sold games of all time:

ALLLLL NINTENDO

Now the top 30:

All nintendo, minus 3 games from take two, 1 form microsoft and 1 by Sony and 1 by activision.

 

No one can match Nintendo son.



It's easy to have the highest selling games when there are so few.  Order of total software sold by Platform:

PS2

PS1

Wii

360

DS

PS3

 

Notice how even the juggernaught of the DS has had less software sold than the 360?   Also the 360 is close to overtaking the Wii, and the PS3 is on track to overtake both.  The PS3 just had too many exclusives release close to each other.  I didn't mind because I loved them all.  Oh and LOL at LBP and MAG being generic! I laughed pretty hard at that one...

 

So you like Nintendo.  Great!  But do you honestly think the Gamecube had better and fresher games than the N64, or the Wii the gamecube, etc...?



Mr Khan said:
DucksUnlimited said:

Are you trying to convince him?

Merely making a general observation.

Well...okay. I don't see how you telling him your software preferences is relevant to what he said in any way, but suit yourself.