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Forums - Gaming Discussion - Is X1 forcing Kinect on us any different than PS3 forcing Bluray on us?

 

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Yea! 301 40.13%
 
Nay! 447 59.60%
 
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S.T.A.G.E. on 07 December 2013
Mr Puggsly said:
Michael-5 said:
Pemalite said:

Essentially, you have stated no technical reason.

Do you understand that if you can't partition it, it won't fit on the disk?

Ya know... developers have figured out ways to split games into multiple discs for many years now. Yet for some reason you think a wall has been hit with MGS4? Amazing!

You have too little faith in game developers, too little.

That would've set a record for how many discs a game would need. Thats an unneccesary amount of discs for such a short game. MGS4 almost went over the full capacity of a single Blu Ray in 2008. The amount of audio Hideo recorded was massive as well. I think the 360 DVD's equate to about 8 GB's. A dual layer Blu Ray is 50GB, which means if you want a large game it could handle what would equate to a little over six DVD's. MGS4 would've taken roughly almost the full amount of a Blu Ray disc. It wouldn't have been worth it to play the game on six DVD's. 

Best part about Blu Ray is that it has staying power. There are Blu Rays today that can hold around 100 GB. MGS was better joining off Sony than trying to join Sony with Blu Ray because honestly they admitted they didn't give a shit about HD-DVD failing and they didn't have an alternative outside of digital. They might as well continue to play follow the leader with Sony when it comes to format.



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Michael-5 on 07 December 2013
Pemalite said:
Michael-5 said:

I don't think you understand what partitioning is. You just contradicted yourself because you don't understand the meaning of that word.

Also Final Fantasy XIII worked fine, but not well on 360. Compressed videos, 576p resolution on 360 (which is SD), lower resolution......this shows that while SE was able to partition this game, they had to make serious cuts to the game to do so. Kotaku even said "nowhere nearly as impressive (on 360)"

Thus far..... -_-


Partitioning is the act of splitting up a volume into smaller or larger parts.

And I'm aware how Final Fantasy was downgraded, but you're missing the point ENTIRELY. - The point is, it was still possible and it still worked.
Metal Gear Solid is again, possible and will still work, even if it had to use 9,000 DVD's and streamed the FMV from the cloud and installed some data to the Hard Drive.

It's not like they have to rebuild the entire game from scratch.

But it didn't work, the Final Fantasy XIII available on 360 was not the same Final Fantasy that Square Enix designed. It was a downgraded version, which required extensive reworking of the Crystal Tools engine, in order to make it only playable.

Konami either didn't want MGS4 to endure the same fate, or it wasn't possible to bring the game over at all. Either way, Blu-Ray has its benefits.



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Mr Puggsly on 07 December 2013
S.T.A.G.E. said:

That would've set a record for how many discs a game would need. Thats an unneccesary amount of discs for such a short game. MGS4 almost went over the full capacity of a single Blu Ray in 2008. The amount of audio Hideo recorded was massive as well. I think the 360 DVD's equate to about 8 GB's. A dual layer Blu Ray is 50GB, which means if you want a large game it could handle what would equate to a little over six DVD's. MGS4 would've taken roughly almost the full amount of a Blu Ray disc. It wouldn't have been worth it to play the game on six DVD's.

Skyrim, Oblivion, Fallout 3, and Fallout New Vegas all combined is only ~20GB. I could throw in the Gears of War trilogy and we're still using less data than 40GB.

Once again, I assure you no PS3 game actually requires 40GB. MGS4 included. Konami and Sony mislead people and amazes me people actually believe it.



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Michael-5 on 07 December 2013
Mr Puggsly said:
Michael-5 said:

You're amazing.

You can partition a game while it's in development, but post development that's a different story. MGS4 is an example of how a game can't always be partitioned once it's been build to be read off a larger medium.

The developers of Witcher 2 figured it out. But apparently Konmai can't. I guess Konami just sucks.

Maybe it takes more work post development, but it can certainly be done.

Your words, not mine.

Maybe just at some point, Konami realized an 8 disk, sub HD port isn't worth it. Maybe he just needed Blu-Ray to make the game he envisioned, and what he could have made for 360 would not have been the same game.

Just pointing out, this is a case where BR was needed for development. I'll admit there aren't many examples, but if MS made the 360 BR, I think games would have benefited.

So if anything, MS forced CD's on us.

----

Either way we're done right? You agree that bundling Kinect with every console isn't the smartest move is it? I disagree with you about PS3 BR being of similar nature, end of story.



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ironmanDX on 07 December 2013
Michael-5 said:
Mr Puggsly said:
Michael-5 said:

except every exclusive on PS3, like MGS IV, which wouldn't work on 360 unless it were redesigned from the ground up (like MGS V).

Plus, after playing God of War, and The Last of Us, I don't think the 360 could handle them without lag. 360 has it's limits, but......this has nothing to do with Kinect/BR.....

 

Again, instead of accepting facts, you're choosing the moral high grounds of insulting the other when you're backed into a corner, or plain don't agree. Would it be too hard to say, "I was wrong, sorry" or "I disagree, but accept your opinion"?

I think we're done here, and I think you're pretty biased towards to 360 if you think it could play some of the exclusives which are outside the systems processing capabilities.

---

Hmm, launch games on ps360 to now.

 

If we saw Halo 4 and TLoU the day the respective consoles launched, we would be in disbelief. I'm not saying it is possible but you can't completly rule it out either. Especially considering how far they've come.



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S.T.A.G.E. on 07 December 2013
Mr Puggsly said:
S.T.A.G.E. said:

That would've set a record for how many discs a game would need. Thats an unneccesary amount of discs for such a short game. MGS4 almost went over the full capacity of a single Blu Ray in 2008. The amount of audio Hideo recorded was massive as well. I think the 360 DVD's equate to about 8 GB's. A dual layer Blu Ray is 50GB, which means if you want a large game it could handle what would equate to a little over six DVD's. MGS4 would've taken roughly almost the full amount of a Blu Ray disc. It wouldn't have been worth it to play the game on six DVD's.

Skyrim, Oblivion, Fallout 3, and Fallout New Vegas all combined is only ~20GB. I could throw in the Gears of War trilogy and we're still using less data than 40GB.

Once again, I assure you no PS3 game actually requires 40GB. MGS4 included. Konami and Sony mislead people and amazes me people actually believe it.

Ok...so whats your point based on what i was saying? The game was 33 gigs compressed. They had to cut audio files and other things. Kojima stated the game was larger than a 50 GB Blu Ray. Around four discs for roughly ten hours of content isn't worth it.



Mr Puggsly on 07 December 2013
S.T.A.G.E. said:

Ok...so whats your point based on what i was saying? The game was 33 gigs compressed. They had to cut audio files and other things. Kojima stated the game was larger than a 50 GB Blu Ray. Around four discs for roughly ten hours of content isn't worth it.

When compressed like all the other games I mentioned, it will be significantly smaller than 33GB.

Kojima has mislead you. I'm sorry, this must come as a shock.



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S.T.A.G.E. on 07 December 2013
Mr Puggsly said:
S.T.A.G.E. said:

Ok...so whats your point based on what i was saying? The game was 33 gigs compressed. They had to cut audio files and other things. Kojima stated the game was larger than a 50 GB Blu Ray. Around four discs for roughly ten hours of content isn't worth it.

When compressed like all the other games I mentioned, it will be significantly smaller than 33GB.

Kojima has mislead you. I'm sorry, this must come as a shock.


I'll take Kojimas word on the initial size of the game before it was compressed. Even compressed that still four 360 DVD's for about ten hours of action. As I said, still not worth it.



Kane1389 on 07 December 2013

Blu Ray is a disc drive. Its essential for a console to work. It also helped a lot of developers because they didnt have to produce multiple disks or compress any data for PS3 games.

Kinect is camera accessory, the console can work just fine without it and it doesnt really help the developers, it only adds unwanted gimmicks they probably are not interested in using



the2real4mafol on 07 December 2013

Blu-ray was actually useful and the games clearly needed it, especially later on. DVD was a bit restrictive for games in the 7th generation. On the other hand, Kinect isn't really necessary. It's more of an extra that doesn't improve the console. Yes, Blu-ray was forced on us but it was worth it in the long term and it's not the same as forcing an expensive camera on us is it? Especially with all this hacking and spying thats been going on for years that we only just found about thanks to Edward Snowden. It makes an uneasy addition to the Xbox One. The Kinect isn't essential so it shouldn't of been included.



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