Forums - Gaming Discussion - Ninja Theory to quit console development and shift to mobile, report claims

2 ppl are raging against one another over DMC in this thread, just to settle things: DMC4 was an abomination! Terrible, terrible game. And this whole discussion over Dante's personality from one game to another - who the fuck cares. He's a dipshit in cool threads with a big sword and dual guns. He has cheesy lines because that's how Capcom do, Ninja Theory maintained somewhat of his spirit but freshened him up a little. His look/character somewhat changed from one game to the other because of the different dev teams, while the comparison to Kratos is silly, because Kratos was cool as hell in the first game, and then just became more of the same moving forward. Let's just all be friends! Raging over Dante for 2 pages straight is so not worth it!



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MessiaH said:
2 ppl are raging against one another over DMC in this thread, just to settle things: DMC4 was an abomination! Terrible, terrible game. And this whole discussion over Dante's personality from one game to another - who the fuck cares. He's a dipshit in cool threads with a big sword and dual guns. He has cheesy lines because that's how Capcom do, Ninja Theory maintained somewhat of his spirit but freshened him up a little. His look/character somewhat changed from one game to the other because of the different dev teams, while the comparison to Kratos is silly, because Kratos was cool as hell in the first game, and then just became more of the same moving forward. Let's just all be friends! Raging over Dante for 2 pages straight is so not worth it!

Terrible is taking things a bit far. It was certainly a step down from DMC3, but it's not an abomination by any means. The gameplay was essentially DMC3's gameplay, with tweaks made to make things easier (save for Nero, which is unfortunately a thing).

Nobody here is raging. It's a debate, and opposing viewpoints disagree sharply. It's kind of the name of the game. If you don't like it, by all means, don't feel pressured to participate. But we (or at least I do) enjoy it, so we'll keep going.



I wish Ninja theory never developed DmC

that way every thread about them doesn't get turned into a mess.



http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2013-11-21-ninja-theory-confirms-itll-keep-making-console-games

False alarm I guess, although it is kinda sad that they're finding it harder and harder to make retail games.

I personally loved Heavenly sword, liked Enslaved and had real problem getting into DmC. I was never a big fan of the franchise and the new iteration by Ninja Theory turned me off even more visually. Best of luck to them and hope they continue to make awesome games.




MTZehvor said:

Where do I even begin with this. Capcom has repeatedly said that this is a different Dante than the one from the previous series:

Fail again DMC4 fan:

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2010-09-22-dmc-devil-may-cry-interview

Like how he goes from a drinking, womanizing party boy to a person who genuinely cares about others with a steady relationship at the end of Iron Man 3. Absolute consistency:

I'm ignoring any further attempt to change the subject.

Just like you ignored that the camp homo is not Dante. Its not character development to change a character beyond the traits of the original. Turning Dante into a camp homosexual is unacceptable to me as a DMC1 fan.

 A lock on button in an action game is a button that, when you press it (or hold it), your character's movements become relative to that enemy. DmC has no such thing.

Lol. Another fail DMC4 fan. DmC's lock on works by holding the L3 stick (as you've said) in the direction of the enemy. That generates a hard lock feedback on one enemy. It also instintaneous transition between enemies because of the nature of a 360 degree lock-on. Thats how it works.

You haven't explained to me how this is automatic?

It has an AUTOMATIC lock on system, in which the game decides which character you lock on to based on relative positions and directions with no additional input from the player besides those two categories.

Lol HAHAHAHAH. Then how is it automatic if its based on the input direction of the player? If there is no input from the player the lock-on is set to neutral. Now answer the question DMC4 fan!

A MANUAL lock on system is one where the player can pick the target they lock on to via button presses or some other input besides relative position and direction.

Like I said you manually target an enemy using directional allocation from the L3 stick.

Is DMC4 an example of a game where you can instantly select any enemy for a lock on?

No, thats because DMC4's automatic lock-on is clunky and outdated from the PS2 era of games. Hence why Hideaki Itusno wanted to upgrade the series to a fully controllable manual lock-on.

...besides relative position and direction

Again, you've accidently contradcited yourself. This is exactly how previous DMC games worked. Without any interaction from the player. Dante automatically locks onto the nearest enemy. To maintain the automatic lock, the player must hold a button (R1) to PREVENT that lock from AUTOMATICALLY moving to another enemy. There is NO NEUTRAL mode, unlike DmC. Explain to me if DMC4 automatically locks-on the nearest enemy, how is it manual?

Will you also explain to ...but that simple fact alone doesn't make it automatic. If the AI is automatically selecting the next player for you explain to me how it is manually controlled?

Now explain to me DMC4 fan, why is DMC4's automatic lock-on superior to DmC's manual lock-on?

Kratos never undergoes any development, never develops any personality change

Whether he develops as a character or not is irrelevant. I don't care whether its positive or negative. The point is he's the same character throughout the series. The camp homo is not character development, its the bastardisation of an icon.

Not to mention DMC4's lock-on was also a downgrade from DMC3; because DMC4's lock-on was broken:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oOhBvmr-w_g

Now explain to me, if you are a DMC fan as you claim, why did you tolleate the abyismal DMC4?



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Fail again DMC4 fan:

Excellent job. You managed to quote the one interview that took place a good three years before the game came out when they had barely decided anything about the game.

Here's an interview that occurs a year afterwards and explicitly states that the game takes place in a parallel universe, which is what they ran with afterwards. So, no, it isn't the same Dante.

Just like you ignored that the camp homo is not Dante. Its not character development to change a character beyond the traits of the original. Turning Dante into a camp homosexual is unacceptable to me as a DMC1 fan.

Straw men everywhere.

If you have any argument besides "DMC4 Dante is a camp homosexual because he makes poses that offend me," by all means, present it.

Lol. Another fail DMC4 fan. DmC's lock on works by holding the L3 stick (as you've said) in the direction of the enemy. That generates a hard lock feedback on one enemy. It also instintaneous transition between enemies because of the nature of a 360 degree lock-on. Thats how it works.

If you read the definition of "lock on" which I listed last time, this would be making sense to you.

" A lock on button in an action game is a button that, when you press it (or hold it), your character's movements become relative to that enemy. DmC has no such thing."

Ask yourself; does DmC have a button (or some alternate method of control) in which the player can make Dante's movements become relative to a position of an enemy?

The answer is no. I'm not sure how much clearer I can make it than that.

You haven't explained to me how this is automatic?

It's automatic in very much the same way as an automatic car is. Everything that's "automatic" still requires SOME input from the user. A manual system, however, is one that requires more input. You could say that an automatic car is manual: Just drive fast enough and you'll get your gear to shift, but the issue is that you have to go through an intermediary system in order to so. A manual device should be one where you have clear access to whatever it is you're trying to change without having to go through an entirely different process to do so.

Again, you've accidently contradcited yourself. This is exactly how previous DMC games worked. Without any interaction from the player. Dante automatically locks onto the nearest enemy. To maintain the automatic lock, the player must hold a button (R1) to PREVENT that lock from AUTOMATICALLY moving to another enemy. There is NO NEUTRAL mode, unlike DmC. Explain to me if DMC4 automatically locks-on the nearest enemy, how is it manual?

...what games have you been playing again?

The old Devil May Crys do nothing of the sort. Seriously, if you've been playing a game where you have to hold a button to prevent the game from randomly switching your lock on, you should return it. And then go play the actual Devil May Cry games.

For the heck of it, I opened up both DMC3's  first and DMC4's second levels (the first is just a tutorial) and stood there in the middle of the room for a good minute or so, only jumping when necessary. The games never tried to force my perspective onto a particular enemy. I kept looking forward the entire time.

So...what are you talking about again?

Now explain to me DMC4 fan, why is DMC4's automatic lock-on superior to DmC's manual lock-on?

It's simple. I have the ability to choose which enemy I want to attack from halfway across the screen without needing to move towards them. I can just press space, cycling through as necessary, and find my chosen target. I can also move relative to said enemy from a distance, which frees up directional input commands (which, in case you hadn't noticed, the entire DMC series is pretty much based around). 

At the end of the day, though, all this is is a quibble over definitions. The entire gaming community, and Ninja Theory themselves, have all referred to the lock on system in the older Devil May Cry games as manual lock on. The entire gaming community has also referred to the lock on system in DmC as automatic. If all you're interested in is getting a definition changed, go argue on Urban Dictionary or something. The point here isn't to get the dictionary changed, the point is that DmC was a worse game for not having a lock on system akin to the previous titles. Because there wasn't a lock on system like previous games where directional attacks and dodges could all be performed relative to an enemy, DmC had to dedicate three whole buttons to launch and lock on. This lead to having to remove the style system, which removed creativity with the potential combos from the player. That's my point.

Whether he develops as a character or not is irrelevant. I don't care whether its positive or negative. The point is he's the same character throughout the series. The camp homo is not character development, its the bastardisation of an icon.

...and your point?

He stays the same. He undergoes no character development, ever. Woop de doo. So does Big Bird from Sesame Street. 

Not to mention DMC4's lock-on was also a downgrade from DMC3; because DMC4's lock-on was broken:

I don't really think that classifies it as broken, but for what it's worth, I played DMC4 on PC and never ran into that problem.

Anyway, I agree, DMC4 is a worse game than DMC3. I've said so on repeated ocassions. Again, what's your point?

Now explain to me, if you are a DMC fan as you claim, why did you tolleate the abyismal DMC4?

Probably the same reason I tolerate your absymal spelling.

As I've said before, I don't think DMC4 is a bad game. The inclusion of Nero is questionable at best, and the story is beyond silly, but Dante is still as much of a joy to be around as ever, and his gameplay has been refined to near perfection. If they had made an entire game, controlling Dante, without an incredible amount of backtracking and repeat bosses, then I think it may very well have surpassed DMC3. As it is, it's kind of a missed opportunity; a failed compromise between people who wanted to take the series in a new direction and those who wanted to be Dante again.



MTZehvor said:

 

Here's an interview that occurs a year afterwards and explicitly states that the game takes place in a parallel universe, which is what they ran with afterwards. So, no, it isn't the same Dante.

They haven't said this isn't the same Dante in the interview your reffering to... Capcom confirmed at his core this is Dante, as confirmed in the link I gave you. If your calling Hideaki Itsuno and Capcom Japan liars; thats fine. As a DMC fan however I chose to believe Capcom, not you.

If you have any argument besides "DMC4 Dante is a camp homosexual because he makes poses that offend me," by all means, present it.

You mean other than Reuben Langdon confirming that he was asked to play DMC4 Donte differently? Or maybe Hideki Kamiya cofirming DMC1 Dante is the true iteration of Dante.

Either way you haven't explained why it was acceptable to you for DMC4 Donte to wear red cowboy boots or to make homoerotic poses. That simply isn't anything like the previous iterations of the character. I can regonise elements of Dante in DMC1,2,3 and DmC, but DMC4 was a drastic departure for the series. True DmC consmetically looks different, yet that look is justified in the parameters of the alternate universe.

Ask yourself; does DmC have a button (or some alternate method of control) in which the player can make Dante's movements become relative to a position of an enemy?

This is what I typed before. I suggest you read it again:

DmC's lock on works by holding the L3 stick (as you've said) in the direction of the enemy. That generates a hard lock feedback on a desired enemy. Now I've explained that to you, explain to me how DmC's lock on is automatic if you manually select the enemy you want via the L3 stick? 

Everything that's "automatic" still requires SOME input from the user.

You actually just described DMC4's lock-on. You press some buttons for the AI to automatically maintain or switch targets. DmC's lock-on allows manually picking out a specfic enemy, as opposed to the AI doing it for you.

A manual device should be one where you have clear access to whatever it is you're trying to change without having to go through an entirely different process to do so.

It's simple. I have the ability to choose which enemy I want to attack from halfway across the screen without needing to move towards them.

Lol. HAHAHAHAHA. If you don't need to move towards an enemy you want to attack how are you manually allocating your target? Simple your not. Your relyng on the AI to automatically decide the target for you.

I can just press space, cycling through as necessary, and find my chosen target.

Explain to me how the AI automaitcally cycleing through a pre-determined cycle of enemies is better than a manual lock-on where you select what target you want manually?

You also hanve't explained to me why you blindly accepted DMC4's broken lock-on?

This lead to having to remove the style system, which removed creativity with the potential combos from the player. That's my point.

Wrong again DMC4 fan. The style system reduced your level of creativety by restrciting your comabt options to styles. In fact part of the problem with the automatic button lock is that whenever you hold it, Dante's movement slows down. He can't run, he can only walk. He can only dodge in two directions, and he is locked into the radius of a specific enemy. DmC Dante intergrates all the combat options together so you never have to switch styles. All his moves, move seamlessly into one another. Which is what Hideaki Itsuno wanted.

Either way you keep using the same arguments to avoid the question. I can equally use the same argument: Hideaki Itsuno adimited he wanted to remove the button lock to improve the fluidity and flexibility of the combat. Which he did achieve. Now explain to me, why should I believe you over Hideaki Itsuno? The only way you can be right is if your calling Hideaki Itsuno a lair? Why is it DMC4 fan?

He stays the same. He undergoes no character development, ever.

Kratos actually does develop as the games mature. Either way thats not the point. The point is Kratos is consistant in terms of his acting, voice, persona, et al. Where as the camp homo is not consistant with previous iterations of Dante.




DmC : Donte May Cry bombed, it's not surprising they talked about mobile games with all their flop.
Mediocre characters with bad writing and average gameplay. Everything is downgrade, It's Ninja Theory's best game but the DMC franchise is too much for them to handle.



They haven't said this isn't the same Dante in the interview your reffering to... Capcom confirmed at his core this is Dante, as confirmed in the link I gave you. If your calling Hideaki Itsuno and Capcom Japan liars; thats fine. As a DMC fan however I chose to believe Capcom, not you.

"According to Dengeki PlayStation, this Dante exists in a parallel world."

And another interview from the escapist, in which a Ninja Theory developer says "The new Devil May Cry is taking place in an 'parallel world'"

So yes, it is another Dante.

You mean other than Reuben Langdon confirming that he was asked to play DMC4 Donte differently? Or maybe Hideki Kamiya cofirming DMC1 Dante is the true iteration of Dante.

Once again, an actor being asked to play a character differently means nothing. I already gave an example of Robert Downey Jr. being asked to play Tony Stark differently. 

And besides, if you're going to make that claim, then there's no way you can suggest DmC Dante is the same as DMC Dante. Ninja Theory made an incredible point in interviews about how this Dante was being designed differently than past Dantes.

As for Hideki Kamiya, we can do this once more if you really want. He's not in control of the series any longer. His decisions about the series' canon are as influential as yours or mine at this point.

DmC's lock on works by holding the L3 stick (as you've said) in the direction of the enemy. That generates a hard lock feedback on a desired enemy. Now I've explained that to you, explain to me how DmC's lock on is automatic if you manually select the enemy you want via the L3 stick? 

You missed a key point of the definition in that case.

Note the phrase "relative to the enemy." Dante's perspective will not change to make his movements relative to the enemy at any point in DmC. Without the relative to the enemy portion, your argument doesn't hold water.

You actually just described DMC4's lock-on. You press some buttons for the AI to automatically maintain or switch targets. DmC's lock-on allows manually picking out a specfic enemy, as opposed to the AI doing it for you.

You've got a pretty loose grasp of what a lock on is.

DMC4 makes you cycle through buttons to pick a target. DmC makes you walk towards a target to select one, and even then it doesn't "lock on" if another enemy moves too close or you knock your target away. In DMC4, your target will remain the target you are attack as long as you hold that button down. In DmC, it's all relative to distance from said target, which is not a manual lock on.

Lol. HAHAHAHAHA. If you don't need to move towards an enemy you want to attack how are you manually allocating your target? Simple your not. Your relyng on the AI to automatically decide the target for you.

...what?

In Metroid Prime, you can very easily lock on to a target without moving towards them just by aiming at the one you want and pressing L.You don't need to move to lock on to anything.

It's the same way here. The AI picks a target that it thinks you want to attack, and then you cycle through said targets until you reach the one you want. You are manually selecting your target. In DmC, if you're halfway across the map and the AI picks a target you don't want, then you can't choose the one you want outside of moving over.

What you're constituting as a lock on system is essentially playing the old Devil May Cry games without the lock on feature. 

Again, all you're doing is quibbling over definitions. The rest of the world calls what DMC has a manual lock on system, and what DmC has an automatic lock on system. If you dislike definitions, fine. Go debate the validity of them somewhere else. I plan to keep using the ones that the rest of the world (including Capcom, Ninja Theory, and everyone else ever behind a Devil May Cry game) uses.

To quote you, what you're asking me to do here is believe your opinion over the creators of Devil May Cry. So, sorry, but no.

Wrong again DMC4 fan. The style system reduced your level of creativety by restrciting your comabt options to styles. In fact part of the problem with the automatic button lock is that whenever you hold it, Dante's movement slows down. He can't run, he can only walk. He can only dodge in two directions, and he is locked into the radius of a specific enemy. DmC Dante intergrates all the combat options together so you never have to switch styles. All his moves, move seamlessly into one another. Which is what Hideaki Itsuno wanted. 

This is beyond absolute silliness. You can just stop holding down the lock on button if you want to move forward more quickly. Nothing's forcing you to hold down the lock on button at all times; most combos with a launcher require you to stop holding a certain button/direction anyway.

Dante can dodge in far more than two directions simply by switching to Trickster, which gives him a whole other three directions to dodge (right, left, and teleport). You can also pull out Royal Guard and simply block. Or you can jump normally and trickster dash out of the way. Or jump and teleport out of the way. There's at least 10 options for dodging any given attack with styles in place, whereas DmC has perhaps three.

Styles are a massive improvement on the series, which is why there was universal negative reaction to getting rid of them. At this point, you are the one simply disparaging old DMC games to make DmC look better.

And besides, DmC fails at its very basic levels for 30 FPS 5 years after DMC4 (which ran at 60) came out.



daredevil.shark said:

If its true then they might be the first "victim" of next gen gaming. Damn. I didnt liked DMC. But its sad news. I am wishing them best of luck.

 

Current AAA business model is really broken. Gaming industry needs to crash for the sake of its future well being.

 

 

[...]

 

Bloated AAA business model is surely broken for whichever title isn't able to sell many million copies, but the situation is not so dire: for example Eastern Europe has many talented developers that managed to keep costs under control while offering near AAA quality for graphics and often more than AAA titles for gameplay, title depth and overall value, like The Witcher series, such devs and publishers could be taken as example by other devs that can't afford the bloated AAA model.
Besides this, XBOne and PS4 are basically customised PCs, so ports from PC will be quite easy, but also ports from tablets shouldn't be too difficult, in this case the only problem will be pricing, console producers will have to include low list price - low royalties offers in their pricing policies, if they are interested in having some games in their libraries.



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